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Forums - Gaming Discussion - MS CFO Tim Stuart defends throwing MTX into $70 games.

So when you say “to get a full and complete MS first party game you need to spend $100 on MTX” you’re actually just referring to one game and one unreleased game. Gotcha. Makes complete sense.

Can you please list these micro transactions you need to buy in Gears 5 to get the complete experience? I’m doing a Gears play through and when I get to Gears 5, I want to make sure I get the full experience. Mind you, I’ve already played more than a bit of the multiplayer, so I know you don’t need to spend a penny there, but what are these other micro transactions? Thanks, friend.



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Cerebralbore101 said:
LudicrousSpeed said:

Weird to see you singling MS out when Sony has been the most criminal of the big three with Last of Us Remastered. But which of these first party Xbox games are you implying that you need $100+ in micro transactions to get a full experience? Seeing you say something like that makes me think you have very very little experience with first party Xbox titles. On my Series X right now I have Horizon 4, Gears 5, Ori, Gears Tactics, Wasteland 3, and Outer Worlds. How are these not complete experiences? Outer Worlds took me over 50 hours to fully complete. Wasteland will take more than that. Horizon 4 is incredibly packed with content, the best racer ever imho. Gears 5 has a full campaign, deep MP, and is getting free updates constantly including new SP content.

Per usual, I don’t think you know what you are talking about. I hope you didn’t go to school for this, too.

I mentioned TLoU Remastered in a post close to the start of this thread. TLoU2 has zero MTX. If TLoU Multiplayer has MTX, you can bet I'll make a thread on it. 

What games do you need to spend $100+ to get the full experience? Gears 5. Soon to be Halo Infinite. That's their two flagship IPs.

As for the rest, of course I'm not saying that Horizon 4, Outer Worlds, Gears Tactics, Wasteland 3, or many of the other Xbox 1st title games have MTX. If I wanted to rag on those games for having MTX, I would have mentioned them in the OP. But I know they don't have MTX, so I left them alone. But I think you knew that, and were just looking for a strawman opportunity. 

The new single player content in Gears 5 is 3 hours long. That's nothing. 


sales2099 said:

You admitted GP needs to be much higher in subs to crank out a solid profit. Yet you give us your armchair economics lesson when they have to find revenue because they nullify the upfront costs. You don’t need a degree in business to know there has to be a give and take. 

Holding Xbox to the same standard as Sony, which does not nullify the upfront cost, is a fatal part of your argument. You have to take that into account or else your just talking emotions over facts of the matter. GP subs are a significant part of Xbox first party engagement. 

And again, to assume someone would want or need all the mtx in Gears or Sea of Thieves is ridiculous. And you assuming the gameplay is mediocre at best? Lol who are you to say that. I better see this same energy when GT7 has post launch DLC and LOU2 multiplayer hits (I heard the first was particularly bad with mtx). 

If we gotta get real here, like really real, is that you think MS is gouging us. Yet we save more money then you and play more. Go figure. 

If the MTX were more reasonable, like $2 for a skin, I'd agree. I know they have to find money to fund their games somewhere. It's not necessarily the MTX I disagree with, but rather the insane prices they charge for things that are trivial to make. 

I don't have to assume that someone is going to be buying all the MTX for Gears or SoT. The prices are so insanely high that just buying 2-3 skins in Gears 5, for example, will give them even more money for the game than they would have raked in from someone buying a retail, or Steam copy, that's on sale. 

Xbox's library is pretty anemic compared to Playstation and PC. So I guess you save money, with Gamepass, but you definitely don't get to play more games than us. I can already hear the bad rebuttal though. You're going to list a ton of mediocre to bad games, ignore their quality and make some sort of argument that no PS or PC user could possibly be able to afford all the games on Gamepass. 

P.S. I'm perfectly fine with what SoT is doing. I'm pretty sure they've added something like 30+ hours of free MMO style content since launch. Like I said before, MMO style content is basically single player, but the ability to play with friends. 

I guess you missed the threads were start alignment ensure that all games exclusive to Xbox are perfectly match of his taste, games on GP are handpicked to him as well =p



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

LudicrousSpeed said:

So when you say “to get a full and complete MS first party game you need to spend $100 on MTX” you’re actually just referring to one game and one unreleased game. Gotcha. Makes complete sense.

Can you please list these micro transactions you need to buy in Gears 5 to get the complete experience? I’m doing a Gears play through and when I get to Gears 5, I want to make sure I get the full experience. Mind you, I’ve already played more than a bit of the multiplayer, so I know you don’t need to spend a penny there, but what are these other micro transactions? Thanks, friend.

@bolded: Of course. I don't know why anybody would think otherwise.

You can do the math for yourself. Figure out how much Iron you can earn from 300 hours of gameplay (an obscene amount of time to spend in a single game IMO). Convert that Iron into real world money. Next add up all the cost of the premium cosmetics in Gears 5 multiplayer (A.K.A. the ones that you'll never get from a supply drop). Subtract the former from the latter. 

If you get confused by this convoluted B.S. then Kotaku is here to help you wade through the Coalition's nonsense. https://kotaku.com/how-gears-5-s-confusing-microtransactions-work-1837942737




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DonFerrari said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

I mentioned TLoU Remastered in a post close to the start of this thread. TLoU2 has zero MTX. If TLoU Multiplayer has MTX, you can bet I'll make a thread on it. 

What games do you need to spend $100+ to get the full experience? Gears 5. Soon to be Halo Infinite. That's their two flagship IPs.

As for the rest, of course I'm not saying that Horizon 4, Outer Worlds, Gears Tactics, Wasteland 3, or many of the other Xbox 1st title games have MTX. If I wanted to rag on those games for having MTX, I would have mentioned them in the OP. But I know they don't have MTX, so I left them alone. But I think you knew that, and were just looking for a strawman opportunity. 

The new single player content in Gears 5 is 3 hours long. That's nothing. 


sales2099 said:

You admitted GP needs to be much higher in subs to crank out a solid profit. Yet you give us your armchair economics lesson when they have to find revenue because they nullify the upfront costs. You don’t need a degree in business to know there has to be a give and take. 

Holding Xbox to the same standard as Sony, which does not nullify the upfront cost, is a fatal part of your argument. You have to take that into account or else your just talking emotions over facts of the matter. GP subs are a significant part of Xbox first party engagement. 

And again, to assume someone would want or need all the mtx in Gears or Sea of Thieves is ridiculous. And you assuming the gameplay is mediocre at best? Lol who are you to say that. I better see this same energy when GT7 has post launch DLC and LOU2 multiplayer hits (I heard the first was particularly bad with mtx). 

If we gotta get real here, like really real, is that you think MS is gouging us. Yet we save more money then you and play more. Go figure. 

If the MTX were more reasonable, like $2 for a skin, I'd agree. I know they have to find money to fund their games somewhere. It's not necessarily the MTX I disagree with, but rather the insane prices they charge for things that are trivial to make. 

I don't have to assume that someone is going to be buying all the MTX for Gears or SoT. The prices are so insanely high that just buying 2-3 skins in Gears 5, for example, will give them even more money for the game than they would have raked in from someone buying a retail, or Steam copy, that's on sale. 

Xbox's library is pretty anemic compared to Playstation and PC. So I guess you save money, with Gamepass, but you definitely don't get to play more games than us. I can already hear the bad rebuttal though. You're going to list a ton of mediocre to bad games, ignore their quality and make some sort of argument that no PS or PC user could possibly be able to afford all the games on Gamepass. 

P.S. I'm perfectly fine with what SoT is doing. I'm pretty sure they've added something like 30+ hours of free MMO style content since launch. Like I said before, MMO style content is basically single player, but the ability to play with friends. 

I guess you missed the threads were start alignment ensure that all games exclusive to Xbox are perfectly match of his taste, games on GP are handpicked to him as well =p

Wait what? Explain. 



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The sentence above is true. 

 

Runa216 said:
DonFerrari said:

You prefering it is totally valid and fine, my problem was you claiming it was superior.

I wouldn't bother getting into it with him. He seems like good people but I've only ever once seen someone so blatantly biased towards an entertainment-based media company before and that was in the summer of 2006. 

This one dude, in the midst of Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest being only the third movie in history to cross 1 billion dollars at the worldwide box office after a record-smashing 135 million dollar opening weekend (besting Spider-Man's 114 million opening), was trying to say that Superman Returns - a notoriously well-known disappointment of a movie - was more profitable. 

Despite the budget being higher and the international box office grosses being far, FAR lower. 

Despite one being a record breaking megahit and the other a colossal disappointment.

Sometimes, you just can't get through to people. We all have our biases, but some people put those biases ahead of logic and reason. I've noticed in this conversation that it's you and a select few others saying reasonable things, being willing to concede from time to time, and actually trying to engage in conversation while Sales2099 is just over there going 'everything Microsoft does is great and perfect and is better and everything Sony does is bad and you're sheep for buying into their nonsense lol'. He's allowed to have his opinion, we all agree on that, but holy hell you shouldn't be enabling him by validating his nonsense. He's one of the most blatant and unreasonable of Xbox fans on the site, and through my conversations with him as well as watching others like you converse with him, it's clear he'd spin anything to be pro-Microsoft and/or anti-sony. 

Despite Sony having more and better games. 

Despite Playstation outselling the Xbox more than 2:1.

So yeah, you might be best to just not engage him. He writes as much as I do but has nothing to say, really. He's probably paid by the Xbox division to talk them up or something. It's the most logical explanation for his irrational love for the brand. 

 Talk to me directly next time. Your the flip side to me, so dug in and so sure of yourself. You so dismissive when my core reason for backing Xbox is “I spend hundreds less then you and I play more games then you”. I like their genres and MP in first party. More gaming for less money seems to be a good reason to like a brand...lol but sure keep your head in the sand.

The thread is trying to say MS is gouging us, when we overall pay less then you guys regarding 1st party. And it’s funny you talk about filler when you give a nice little story about Pirates of the Caribbean...

You say Elder Scrolls is one of your favourite IPs but even if it’s exclusive to Xbox consoles your love for Sony will prevent you from buying a Xbox. Now that’s brand loyalty. 

Last edited by sales2099 - on 22 November 2020

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Cerebralbore101 said:
LudicrousSpeed said:

Weird to see you singling MS out when Sony has been the most criminal of the big three with Last of Us Remastered. But which of these first party Xbox games are you implying that you need $100+ in micro transactions to get a full experience? Seeing you say something like that makes me think you have very very little experience with first party Xbox titles. On my Series X right now I have Horizon 4, Gears 5, Ori, Gears Tactics, Wasteland 3, and Outer Worlds. How are these not complete experiences? Outer Worlds took me over 50 hours to fully complete. Wasteland will take more than that. Horizon 4 is incredibly packed with content, the best racer ever imho. Gears 5 has a full campaign, deep MP, and is getting free updates constantly including new SP content.

Per usual, I don’t think you know what you are talking about. I hope you didn’t go to school for this, too.

I mentioned TLoU Remastered in a post close to the start of this thread. TLoU2 has zero MTX. If TLoU Multiplayer has MTX, you can bet I'll make a thread on it. 

What games do you need to spend $100+ to get the full experience? Gears 5. Soon to be Halo Infinite. That's their two flagship IPs.

As for the rest, of course I'm not saying that Horizon 4, Outer Worlds, Gears Tactics, Wasteland 3, or many of the other Xbox 1st title games have MTX. If I wanted to rag on those games for having MTX, I would have mentioned them in the OP. But I know they don't have MTX, so I left them alone. But I think you knew that, and were just looking for a strawman opportunity. 

The new single player content in Gears 5 is 3 hours long. That's nothing. 


sales2099 said:

You admitted GP needs to be much higher in subs to crank out a solid profit. Yet you give us your armchair economics lesson when they have to find revenue because they nullify the upfront costs. You don’t need a degree in business to know there has to be a give and take. 

Holding Xbox to the same standard as Sony, which does not nullify the upfront cost, is a fatal part of your argument. You have to take that into account or else your just talking emotions over facts of the matter. GP subs are a significant part of Xbox first party engagement. 

And again, to assume someone would want or need all the mtx in Gears or Sea of Thieves is ridiculous. And you assuming the gameplay is mediocre at best? Lol who are you to say that. I better see this same energy when GT7 has post launch DLC and LOU2 multiplayer hits (I heard the first was particularly bad with mtx). 

If we gotta get real here, like really real, is that you think MS is gouging us. Yet we save more money then you and play more. Go figure. 

If the MTX were more reasonable, like $2 for a skin, I'd agree. I know they have to find money to fund their games somewhere. It's not necessarily the MTX I disagree with, but rather the insane prices they charge for things that are trivial to make. 

I don't have to assume that someone is going to be buying all the MTX for Gears or SoT. The prices are so insanely high that just buying 2-3 skins in Gears 5, for example, will give them even more money for the game than they would have raked in from someone buying a retail, or Steam copy, that's on sale. 

Xbox's library is pretty anemic compared to Playstation and PC. So I guess you save money, with Gamepass, but you definitely don't get to play more games than us. I can already hear the bad rebuttal though. You're going to list a ton of mediocre to bad games, ignore their quality and make some sort of argument that no PS or PC user could possibly be able to afford all the games on Gamepass. 

P.S. I'm perfectly fine with what SoT is doing. I'm pretty sure they've added something like 30+ hours of free MMO style content since launch. Like I said before, MMO style content is basically single player, but the ability to play with friends. 

Ok so really this boils down to a case by case basis. That’s fine. If one game is bad with its mtx then I’ll stand by with you and complain. As long as you see that if the post launch content is sizeable, more then skins I mean, then cosmetic mtx aren’t the worst thing you can do. 

That said, only speaking of Xbox first party, you must take into account GP going forward, especially once their studios finally crank out the bangers. Much of their upfront revenue will be from Steam buyers, as GP will increasingly be how we play our Xbox Studio games. More and more the $70 cost won’t apply to us like it applies to you. So I’m not spending mtx on top of $70, I’m essentially starting from $0. 

(btw I apologize if I got too intense in some of my replies)

Last edited by sales2099 - on 22 November 2020

Cerebralbore101 said:
DonFerrari said:

I guess you missed the threads were start alignment ensure that all games exclusive to Xbox are perfectly match of his taste, games on GP are handpicked to him as well =p

Wait what? Explain. 

Don gets me lol. I like Sci fi shooters so naturally I gravitate towards Halo due to its vast extended universe. I like RTS from StarCraft back in the day so I love the Halo Wars IP. I played a ton of Xcom (old and new) so Gears Tactics is giving me an amazing time right now. I like arcade racers so Forza Horizon 4 has no equal to me, especially with a drivable Warthog. MP games peak my interest if unique and Sea of Thieves is one of a kind. 

My love for “single player third person story driven  action adventure” is more limited then the average PS guy. But exceptions are Gears of War being sci fi and having a great MP, and Hellblade being completely unique and set in the Viking era. 

Doom 1993 was my favourite shooter as a kid, and now MS buys Bethesda and puts Doom Eternal on GP. Metro Exodus, Kingdom Come Deliverance, two of my few favourite games this gen, were discovered on Game Pass. 

Essentially everything I liked growing up only Xbox does best. Plus as a married homeowner who manages his finances, Xbox appeals to me on a real level where I don’t have to shell out hundreds per year to enjoy gaming ($180 minimum with GPU). Sometimes buying supplies for re-modeling the basement is more important then shelling out $70x how many games I want to play :p

Last edited by sales2099 - on 22 November 2020

Can you guys give me examples of these micro-macro transactions. I've never paid money for them. I don't even see them when i play games.



Cerebralbore101 said:

I mentioned TLoU Remastered in a post close to the start of this thread. TLoU2 has zero MTX. If TLoU Multiplayer has MTX, you can bet I'll make a thread on it. 

What games do you need to spend $100+ to get the full experience? Gears 5. Soon to be Halo Infinite. That's their two flagship IPs.

As for the rest, of course I'm not saying that Horizon 4, Outer Worlds, Gears Tactics, Wasteland 3, or many of the other Xbox 1st title games have MTX. If I wanted to rag on those games for having MTX, I would have mentioned them in the OP. But I know they don't have MTX, so I left them alone. But I think you knew that, and were just looking for a strawman opportunity. 

The new single player content in Gears 5 is 3 hours long. That's nothing. 

Actually.. TLOU1 did have MTXs, one of the worst kind as it used a Pay-2-Win method. 



Azzanation said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

I mentioned TLoU Remastered in a post close to the start of this thread. TLoU2 has zero MTX. If TLoU Multiplayer has MTX, you can bet I'll make a thread on it. 

What games do you need to spend $100+ to get the full experience? Gears 5. Soon to be Halo Infinite. That's their two flagship IPs.

As for the rest, of course I'm not saying that Horizon 4, Outer Worlds, Gears Tactics, Wasteland 3, or many of the other Xbox 1st title games have MTX. If I wanted to rag on those games for having MTX, I would have mentioned them in the OP. But I know they don't have MTX, so I left them alone. But I think you knew that, and were just looking for a strawman opportunity. 

The new single player content in Gears 5 is 3 hours long. That's nothing. 

Actually.. TLOU1 did have MTXs, one of the worst kind as it used a Pay-2-Win method. 

Was referring to the upcoming standalone multiplayer mode that Naughty Dog spun off from TLoU2. 



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