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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Microsoft: Xbox Series S and X only next-gen consoles with full RDNA 2 feature set

chakkra said:

I've been seeing this rumor running around online for a while now, but these are the things that you cannot mention in here bcuz it is considered "console war,"
But anyway, my suspicions that the rumor might've been true started when MS kept mentioning DirectML while Sony did not. I'm really intrigued to see how this feature will be utilized in the future. The most logical thing would be to use it to implement its own version of DLSS.

Yeah, there was a Sony patent that emerged a while back that seemed to be about their own DLSS, similar to what Nvidia is using. Doesn't mean that that's what they will go with, as patents tend to come and go. But the point is that Sony has their own solutions for some things, MS went a slightly different direction but the games will be glorious all around.



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TheBraveGallade said:
I mean, its probably an advantage to devs who are used to PC, meaning Xbox versions might run slightly better then ps5 if its a game also on PC.

That being said, we don't know how well PS's solution will do VERSES the xbox's DX12 implementation so...

Quote from digital foundry

 " Every single developer I've spoken to developing for PS5 has been evangelising how easy it is to work for".



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

eva01beserk said:
TheBraveGallade said:
I mean, its probably an advantage to devs who are used to PC, meaning Xbox versions might run slightly better then ps5 if its a game also on PC.

That being said, we don't know how well PS's solution will do VERSES the xbox's DX12 implementation so...

Quote from digital foundry

 " Every single developer I've spoken to developing for PS5 has been evangelising how easy it is to work for".

“It’s essentially the same development environment as PS4 and you scale up from there, for the new powers, the features, and whatnot. I can't stress enough how happy developers seem to be with this situation.”



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eva01beserk said:
TheBraveGallade said:
I mean, its probably an advantage to devs who are used to PC, meaning Xbox versions might run slightly better then ps5 if its a game also on PC.

That being said, we don't know how well PS's solution will do VERSES the xbox's DX12 implementation so...

Quote from digital foundry

 " Every single developer I've spoken to developing for PS5 has been evangelising how easy it is to work for".

Easy to develop for is different then being more capable. Hence the OP regarding RDNA 2 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

sales2099 said:
eva01beserk said:

Quote from digital foundry

 " Every single developer I've spoken to developing for PS5 has been evangelising how easy it is to work for".

Easy to develop for is different then being more capable. Hence the OP regarding RDNA 2 

Diferent sure, but not opose. As far as we know the ps5 could be both. Untill its out we don't know but we do know that so far devs prefer the ps5. 



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

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eva01beserk said:
sales2099 said:

Easy to develop for is different then being more capable. Hence the OP regarding RDNA 2 

Diferent sure, but not opose. As far as we know the ps5 could be both. Untill its out we don't know but we do know that so far devs prefer the ps5. 

prefer? how the hell did you get from that statement



 "I think people should define the word crap" - Kirby007

Join the Prediction League http://www.vgchartz.com/predictions

Instead of seeking to convince others, we can be open to changing our own minds, and seek out information that contradicts our own steadfast point of view. Maybe it’ll turn out that those who disagree with you actually have a solid grasp of the facts. There’s a slight possibility that, after all, you’re the one who’s wrong.

eva01beserk said:
sales2099 said:

Easy to develop for is different then being more capable. Hence the OP regarding RDNA 2 

Diferent sure, but not opose. As far as we know the ps5 could be both. Untill its out we don't know but we do know that so far devs prefer the ps5. 

I mean AMD confirmed the disparity but sure let’s drag this out a little more haha 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

Pemalite said:

It's really to early to tell what the fundamental differences are between RDNA 1.0 and 2.0 from a low-laying perspective anyway.

If we forget for a moment about PS5 vs XSX (which is the part that makes everybody shut their doors) and just focus on RDNA2 vs RDNA1, there has been a few articles outlining the differences between them.

"Ever since AMD announced the RDNA2 architecture, they have reiterated a singular goal: they wanted to achieve a 50% jump in perf-per-watt over RDNA1. And that they would accomplish it entirely with architectural improvements, not process improvements..."

"Along with numerous optimizations to the power efficiency of their GPU architecture, RDNA2 also includes a much-needed update to the graphics side of AMD’s GPU architecture. RDNA (1), though a massive replumbing of the core compute architecture, did not include any graphics feature upgrades. As a result, AMD only offered a DirectX feature level 12_1 feature set – the same as the Radeon RX Vega series – at a time when NVIDIA was offering ray tracing and the other features that have since become DirectX 12 Ultimate"

https://www.anandtech.com/show/16202/amd-reveals-the-radeon-rx-6000-series-rdna2-starts-at-the-highend-coming-november-18th/2

And about Primitive Shaders and Mesh Shaders being exactly the same, not quite. 

"A Mesh shader is a new type of shader that combines vertex and primitive processing. VS, HS, DS, and GS shader stages are replaced with Amplification Shader and Mesh Shader. Roughly, Mesh shaders replace VS+GS or DS+GS shaders and Amplification shaders replace VS+HS."

https://microsoft.github.io/DirectX-Specs/d3d/MeshShader.html

"Mesh shaders represent a radical simplification of the geometry pipeline. With a mesh shader enabled, all the shader stages and fixed-function features described above are swept away. Instead, we get a clean, straightforward pipeline using a compute-shader-like programming model. Importantly, this new pipeline is both highly flexible—enough to handle the existing geometry tasks in a typical game, plus enable new techniques that are challenging to do on the GPU today— it looks like it should be quite performance-friendly, with no apparent architectural barriers to efficient GPU execution."

https://www.starcitizen.gr/2642867-2/



Pemalite said:
shikamaru317 said:
This matches with the rumors that PS5 was originally designed as a 2019 console, but had to be delayed into 2020, full RDNA 2 wouldn't have been ready if PS5 was designed as a 2019 console originally. Also explains why PS5 has a 350 watt power supply compared to 320 watt for Xbox Series X, even though Xbox Series X is more powerful and has locked clocks compared to variable clocks on PS5; if PS5 is only RDNA 1.5 (RDNA 1 with some RDNA 2 features), we know that RDNA 2 is more power efficient, which would explain why Xbox Series can get away with a smaller power supply in spite of the console being more powerful.


In short... Please take the 350w vs 320w PSU as irrelevant, because ultimately it is.

Not necessarily. Most of the loss in power does translate into... well... heat. If a lighter supply is feeding a more powerful machine, there's less heat generation from the PSU. In other words... if the PS5 does have a more powerful unit, it might be generating more heat. 



AsGryffynn said:
Pemalite said:


In short... Please take the 350w vs 320w PSU as irrelevant, because ultimately it is.

Not necessarily. Most of the loss in power does translate into... well... heat. If a lighter supply is feeding a more powerful machine, there's less heat generation from the PSU. In other words... if the PS5 does have a more powerful unit, it might be generating more heat. 

Actually, the exact opposite could be true.

If a 350W ps operates in its "comfort zone", and a 320W ps operates slightly above its "comfort zone", then the latter ps generates more heat.

However, the whole thing depends on the voltage regulator circuitry. Contrary to what you seem to think, the ps does not feed "the machine", it feeds the voltage regulator circuitry (where much more heat is generated than in the ps). The vrc is the place where money vs heat is traded at design time (more phases = less heat but higher costs).

Nothing has been revealed about where the ps work or how the vrcs are built so any discussion about "this comsole is better than that one" is pointless.