Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Xbox acquires Bethesda

Mr Puggsly said:

Giving away GTV is impressive. But not incredible given the game is nearing a decade old. Also, if the goal is just having users then I guess MS should give away games.

All the digital store services have pretty significant discounts on games. Especially in the PC market. Again, Epic Store is likely getting attention from Fortnite, free games and exclusive content they buy to compete with Steam.

I use the Windows apps because I have Gamepass. Over the years its obvious activity is increasing and it should be given all the notable games being added. That's also apparent from the increase of user reviews.

On a side note I do believe Sea of Thieves was a hit on PC well before it came to Steam. Its the second most paid game on Windows Store and has almost always been.

Anyway, if your stance is Windows Store is irrelevant, I simply disagree but also argue they share games with Steam which is arguably a good idea to increase profit, the opposite of what Epic is doing.

Windows store has definitely improved... But it's still go a long way to go. It's still terrible.
So does the Epic store.

I personally avoid the Windows store like the plague... I think you will find most serious non-Xbox PC gamers do as well.
I would like to see gamepass rolled into Steam, but I don't think that is a path Microsoft intends to walk down... Until then, I am happy picking up MS games on Steam.

In terms of windows store success, it doesn't really say much when a game does well on it... Apparently Gears 5 sold extremely well on the Windows Store but it's multiplayer was barren... And often there was a cry to merge Windows Store and Steam games multiplayer populations to assist in resolving Multiplayer populations for windows store users.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Around the Network
sales2099 said:
Runa216 said:

aaaahahahhahahahahahah

no

The Xbox 360's biggest games outside of CALLADOODY was Kinect Adventures and Halo.

PS4's best selling games aside from Calladoody are stuff like Uncharted, Spider-Man, God of War, The Last of Us, and Horizon Zero Dawn. 

If you don't think exclusives sell games, then damn boy you need a lesson in console history. If it was third party multiplats, then why didn't Xbox One sell the most? I mean, it was the most powerful console, wasn't it? the OneX was WAY stronger than the PS4 pro, yet the years after its release were poorer than the years prior to its release, getting destroyed even more by PS4 afterwards. 

More mental gymnastics, kids. This is how you identify it. 

You know as bias as you or me are, you really have little idea how business works. Xbox X came too late into the gen to make a difference. The gamers allready decided what the trends were. This came too late to make a impact and only appealed to the niche core gamers. If something like this came out day 1 it would have helped. Not win, mind you Xbox One has more then a few problems in 2013 but having better multiplats would have been one less narrative Sony had in their favour at launch. 

Then why didn't Xbox One sales go up after the release of the Xbox One X? Everyone keeps harping on about power and gamepass and backwards compatibility...but it just doesn't track with reality. these things are good, they're not system sellers. Exclusives are system sellers. Exclusives and gimmicks. Nintendo consoles have had gimmicks and games, they sell a tonne (most of the time). Playstation consoles have a whole lot of exclusive games, and 4/5 of the top selling consoles of all time are PlayStation (not including handheld). 

Almost all of the points people are putting into the narrative about how good Xbox is doing or is about to do is strictly in theory. Not in practice. All this talk about how Microsoft does this right and that right and the other thing right and are about to break out and get back on top is a story I've been hearing on repeat for the last ten years and it never happens. If power sold consoles, why didn't the Xbox One X sell more than the Ps4 Pro? If backwards compatibility is so important, why did the PS4 dominate the Xbox One? if GamePass is so influential, then why is Xbox still selling pitifully compared to PS4 on a week to week basis? If marketing and hype and acquisitions are so important, why are PlayStation reveals breaking records and all I ever hear outside of this echo chamber about Xbox is 'man that showcase was boring/bland'? 

All your points are great in theory, but not in practice. the things you and so many others SAY are influential aren't. if I was in Microsoft's shoes I'd be thinking the same thing, but the reality is that these features don't sell consoles. what variable here is different between PS and Xbox? Exclusives. Ps4 continued to get exclusives throughout the gen right up to Ghost of Tsushima a few months ago, where Xbox basically stopped in 2016 aside from a few indies and the holy trinity over the course of three years. 

Like I said to you and so many others and nobody seems to be willing to counter because you all know I'm right: This exact same narrative came into play back at the launch of the Xbox One in 2013 after a lacklustre back end of gen 7. This was coming off a very competitive generation between Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3. what in the world makes you think this is any different? PS4 continued to dominate, Xbox continued to suck hard, and All I'm hearing is an echo of last gen. 

All these promises? I'll believe it when I see it. Until then, seriously Xbox needs to do a whole lot more to impress me. Buying Bethesda is, in theory, a great step but we'll see what happens. I have zero faith it'll help.



I got it all, baby! 

PS4, Switch, WiiU, XBO, PC
Vita, 3DS, Android

Top 6 this generation: 
Bloodborne, Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice, God of War, The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild, Dark Souls III, Red Dead Redemption II

sales2099 said:

You know as bias as you or me are, you really have little idea how business works. Xbox X came too late into the gen to make a difference. The gamers allready decided what the trends were. This came too late to make a impact and only appealed to the niche core gamers. If something like this came out day 1 it would have helped. Not win, mind you Xbox One has more then a few problems in 2013 but having better multiplats would have been one less narrative Sony had in their favour at launch. 

It's almost like a mid gen console refresh doesn't affect the outcome of it's selling power. Who would've thought? 



Mr Puggsly said:
hinch said:

I beg to differ Microsoft store is hot garbage and most PC gamers avoid it like the plague. Their recent games are quite successful on Steam mind - not a surprise to anyone as its the most popular gaming platform on PC.

Not sure that's entirely true. Windows Store activity is clearly growing with each notable release.
Also, if you want cheap access to new releases then you have to use Gamepass.

Right, that was the point I was aiming at, not that I am gushing about Microsoft Store as such.
Having alot more 1st party titles means MS can now give them at least timed exclusivity on own Store to drive traffic,
As well as Game Pass drawing people to their ecosystem. Epic Store is similar in that nobody really likes it as such,
they like the value it offers, between exclusive/early access content, good deals, and outright freebies as promotionals.
It's like there is 2 totally different conversations going on, one about marketshare and business, and the other about
defending personal consumer preference which is great but not market analysis which "VGChartz" purportedly is about.
I elsewhere am saying how I don't think all this will yield major swing in console share, but it clearly is bulking up
MS offering on PC in a way I think they will be more relevant than they have been so far with their PC game store.

As to the take counting Steam as part of MS' platform, I find that somewhat absurd as MS just isn't making profits there,
and they aren't even getting the deep consumer info analysis that controlling own platform yields. Those people would
already be using Windows generally (Linux/MacOS offering aside), and MS investing $8B in Zenimax isn't able to
derive additional profits/control from Steam gamers beyond what a mere 3rd party game dev/publisher would,
which is why Steam is not part of MS' platform, they don't derive platform owner benefits from it and lose big cut
to Valve's intermediary fee. That Steam is popular with consumers lets them keep fees high, but as with Epic Store
we see pubs/devs preferring other venue at least for early access/timed exclusivity to capture more profit share,
even if they are eventually willing to publish to Steam because that keeps total revenue higher down the line.

Incidentally, I see Sony following a similar path online/PC gaming store with Epic deal, and won't be surprised to see
revamped subscription offer, even if it isn't necessarily identical to Game Pass. Sony joining Epic is attractive to Epic
because it brings more AAA content just like MS/Zenimax deal, and Playstation Store itself would de facto add to
the weight of Epic Store if they become linked at some level. Direct profits is not the sole rationale here, but the
all encompassing consumer info mining, which is market data at deep level that helps guide the whole enterprise,
as well as potentially tying into other media formats (film, TV) or social media in general.



smroadkill15 said:

sales2099 said:

You know as bias as you or me are, you really have little idea how business works. Xbox X came too late into the gen to make a difference. The gamers allready decided what the trends were. This came too late to make a impact and only appealed to the niche core gamers. If something like this came out day 1 it would have helped. Not win, mind you Xbox One has more then a few problems in 2013 but having better multiplats would have been one less narrative Sony had in their favour at launch. 

It's almost like a mid gen console refresh doesn't affect the outcome of it's selling power. Who would've thought? 

I know, right? Dare I say...it might show that power doesn't mean as much as people say it does? 



I got it all, baby! 

PS4, Switch, WiiU, XBO, PC
Vita, 3DS, Android

Top 6 this generation: 
Bloodborne, Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice, God of War, The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild, Dark Souls III, Red Dead Redemption II

Around the Network
Runa216 said:
sales2099 said:

You know as bias as you or me are, you really have little idea how business works. Xbox X came too late into the gen to make a difference. The gamers allready decided what the trends were. This came too late to make a impact and only appealed to the niche core gamers. If something like this came out day 1 it would have helped. Not win, mind you Xbox One has more then a few problems in 2013 but having better multiplats would have been one less narrative Sony had in their favour at launch. 

Then why didn't Xbox One sales go up after the release of the Xbox One X? Everyone keeps harping on about power and gamepass and backwards compatibility...but it just doesn't track with reality. these things are good, they're not system sellers. Exclusives are system sellers. Exclusives and gimmicks. Nintendo consoles have had gimmicks and games, they sell a tonne (most of the time). Playstation consoles have a whole lot of exclusive games, and 4/5 of the top selling consoles of all time are PlayStation (not including handheld). 

Almost all of the points people are putting into the narrative about how good Xbox is doing or is about to do is strictly in theory. Not in practice. All this talk about how Microsoft does this right and that right and the other thing right and are about to break out and get back on top is a story I've been hearing on repeat for the last ten years and it never happens. If power sold consoles, why didn't the Xbox One X sell more than the Ps4 Pro? If backwards compatibility is so important, why did the PS4 dominate the Xbox One? if GamePass is so influential, then why is Xbox still selling pitifully compared to PS4 on a week to week basis? If marketing and hype and acquisitions are so important, why are PlayStation reveals breaking records and all I ever hear outside of this echo chamber about Xbox is 'man that showcase was boring/bland'? 

All your points are great in theory, but not in practice. the things you and so many others SAY are influential aren't. if I was in Microsoft's shoes I'd be thinking the same thing, but the reality is that these features don't sell consoles. what variable here is different between PS and Xbox? Exclusives. Ps4 continued to get exclusives throughout the gen right up to Ghost of Tsushima a few months ago, where Xbox basically stopped in 2016 aside from a few indies and the holy trinity over the course of three years. 

Like I said to you and so many others and nobody seems to be willing to counter because you all know I'm right: This exact same narrative came into play back at the launch of the Xbox One in 2013 after a lacklustre back end of gen 7. This was coming off a very competitive generation between Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3. what in the world makes you think this is any different? PS4 continued to dominate, Xbox continued to suck hard, and All I'm hearing is an echo of last gen. 

All these promises? I'll believe it when I see it. Until then, seriously Xbox needs to do a whole lot more to impress me. Buying Bethesda is, in theory, a great step but we'll see what happens. I have zero faith it'll help.

For your first and 2nd paragraph, I’ll repeat that all Xbox improvements came late in the gen. It doesn’t matter when the trends are all ready established. Seriously this isn’t hard. Sony established their dominance early and their brand power entrenches it. Xbox can make all the right moves but if it’s too late it won’t make an impact.

That said it does lay the foundation for next gen as it is a fresh start. 

But cmon your pessimism is getting borderline satirical. MS went from 7 to 23 studios in the span of two years, culminating in the biggest purchase in gaming history of 7.5 billion. You: Pssssssssh 23 studios (waves hand dismissively).

“what in the world makes you think this is any different? PS4 continued to dominate, Xbox continued to suck hard, and All I'm hearing is an echo of last gen.”

Again I ask you to use logic and not think emotionally. I made peace with my bias long ago but I at least know how to analyze history. If you honestly think Xbox as a whole, right now, post Bethesda purchase, is in the SAME space as Xbox in 2013 then you are more bias then me by a looooong shot ;)

Last edited by sales2099 - on 25 September 2020

Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

Runa216 said:
smroadkill15 said:

It's almost like a mid gen console refresh doesn't affect the outcome of it's selling power. Who would've thought? 

I know, right? Dare I say...it might show that power doesn't mean as much as people say it does? 

Execution matters most. But it isn't like "oh if we choose less power, we'll have more success!", that doesn't really work either otherwise the Dreamcast would've beat the Playstation 2. 

You have to execute smartly as a company. If you execute well AND you have the most powerful console (PS4 vs XB One) that is a powerful advantage. 



Runa216 said:
smroadkill15 said:

It's almost like a mid gen console refresh doesn't affect the outcome of it's selling power. Who would've thought? 

I know, right? Dare I say...it might show that power doesn't mean as much as people say it does? 

You missed his point. Having the power/price narrative day 1 is MUCH more impactful then having it year 4 of a gen. Get it? I’m not saying it means guaranteed victory, but it helps. 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

Pemalite said:

Windows store has definitely improved... But it's still go a long way to go. It's still terrible.
So does the Epic store.

I personally avoid the Windows store like the plague... I think you will find most serious non-Xbox PC gamers do as well.
I would like to see gamepass rolled into Steam, but I don't think that is a path Microsoft intends to walk down... Until then, I am happy picking up MS games on Steam.

In terms of windows store success, it doesn't really say much when a game does well on it... Apparently Gears 5 sold extremely well on the Windows Store but it's multiplayer was barren... And often there was a cry to merge Windows Store and Steam games multiplayer populations to assist in resolving Multiplayer populations for windows store users.

I'm not looking to discuss quality, just pointing out people are using it and the service has gained activity over the past few years.

I agree many would rather just buy games on Steam, in fact we see that based on the success of numerous titles. But people are using Windows Store and that's likely for Gamepass. Maybe some are even using the Play Anywhere feature. I'm not really defending Windows Store, I'm just pointing out people are using it.

I think Gears 5 launched with cross play between every platform.

On a side note, Gears Tactics has an unusually large number of user reviews. That would suggest that game attracted a lot of people to Gamepass.



Recently Completed
Gears 5
for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

Runa216 said:
smroadkill15 said:

It's almost like a mid gen console refresh doesn't affect the outcome of it's selling power. Who would've thought? 

I know, right? Dare I say...it might show that power doesn't mean as much as people say it does? 

Again learn your history, PS4 was outselling Xbox one 75 million to 35 million at the time. Sony had already won the generation. Its baffling how much the mod allow trolling if its against Microsoft.



Tommy Jean, CPA, CGA