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Forums - Sony Discussion - PS4 and Pro needs to get price cuts right now!

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Azzanation said:
DonFerrari said:

MS said the games on Series S would work as on Series X but with 1/3 of the framerate. On the first wave that have been far from true. But you will deviate from calling that misleading and pretend it is just optimization. Not that you haven't blamed optimization and tools for the Series X not outperforming PS5 by a lot as you were expecting before right?

So you did know that the CPU, RAM, SSD etc were weaker than Series X but occasionally forgot to mention them? But Sony would be misleading with only putting the specs of PS4Pro even if they don't say it is gen 9?

You know that there are games that Series S doesn't even have the RTX enabled? That the BC games on Series S doesn't run the X1X version even if it is stronger in all aspects as you claim?

It all depends on optimization, i have mentioned this many times when a game doesn't run well. No idea what you are on about. And what does MS have to do with this conversation? This is about trying to place a last gen system to a new next gen system.

Yes the CPU, RAM are less than the Series X, does it need to be on par with the Series X to be next gen? And what does the size of the SSD have to do with the topic? Did you know the CPU and RAM are ahead of last gen systems? As well as having a SSD NVMe where as the last gen systems don't.

Comparing stats between the Series S/X and PS5 is different than comparing stats from a last gen system to a next gen system because they are very different systems. It would be rather stupid to compare PRO to Series S because all it does is trick consumers in thinking one is more powerful, no matter how clever you word it. Like i said with my car comparison.

Halo Infinite didn't have Ray Tracing either which was suppose to be on a PC comparable to the Series X. Means nothing. The Series S also has games that use RTX.

Did you ignore the part where i said that software is just as important as the hardware inside the machine, or did you choose to ignore that part?

You also still choose to ignore the question which i have asked many times now, do you not think the Series S is a next gen system? 

Since you don't care the least about Playstation, then if there is nothing to talk on the Xbox here, why are you on this thread that is specifically on price cut for PS4. MS have to do on being misleading, that you claim Sony would by listing specs while MS isn't when they say it will run the same (when it doesn't). Quite harsh on a hypothetic scenario that a claim haven't even be made and apologetic when a claim was made.

Nope they don't need to be gen 9. Still you initially claimed only GPU was weaker than Series X, so looks like you were the misleading one.

Nope your can comparison have a company claiming their car is faster because it have a bigger engine, while the console would have one comparing specs of two systems. But again you want to be harsher to one case and even distort it to fit your claim while ignoring the other.

Of course it means something. If a company claim their console will do something and it doesn't that is what? Yes, misleading.

I ignored your question because you were doing a strawman. Were you able to find anywhere myself claiming Series S isn't gen 9? I guess not.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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Darc Requiem said:

Someone needs to look at Series S specs. It's inferior to the Xbox One X in some regards. The One X has 12GB of RAM and 326GB/s memory bandwidth. The Series S has 10GB of RAM and 224GB/s memory bandwith. It's not across the board superior in everyway like the Series X.

OMG you're right.. MS has been lying to consumers and cheating them this entire time! They even had the nerve to discontinue the next gen XB1X and insert a last gen XBSS.

Wasn't and isn't the XBSX marketed as the most powerful next gen console by far? Then how is it that PS5 outperforms it so often, even in third party?

How shameful.



The fact that Sony won't cut the price of the Slim and Pro makes me think the PS4 is going to be discontinued quicker than previous PlayStation home consoles. The Pro will probably be discontinued this year, if it hasn't already. The Slim will probably survive into 2022. Maybe it will get a price cut, maybe it won't.



Lifetime Sales Predictions 

Switch: 144 million (was 73, then 96, then 113 million, then 125 million)

PS5: 105 million Xbox Series S/X: 60 million

PS4: 120 mil (was 100 then 130 million, then 122 million) Xbox One: 51 mil (was 50 then 55 mil)

3DS: 75.5 mil (was 73, then 77 million)

"Let go your earthly tether, enter the void, empty and become wind." - Guru Laghima

DonFerrari said:

Since you don't care the least about Playstation, then if there is nothing to talk on the Xbox here, why are you on this thread that is specifically on price cut for PS4. MS have to do on being misleading, that you claim Sony would by listing specs while MS isn't when they say it will run the same (when it doesn't). Quite harsh on a hypothetic scenario that a claim haven't even be made and apologetic when a claim was made.

Nope they don't need to be gen 9. Still you initially claimed only GPU was weaker than Series X, so looks like you were the misleading one.

Nope your can comparison have a company claiming their car is faster because it have a bigger engine, while the console would have one comparing specs of two systems. But again you want to be harsher to one case and even distort it to fit your claim while ignoring the other.

Of course it means something. If a company claim their console will do something and it doesn't that is what? Yes, misleading.

I ignored your question because you were doing a strawman. Were you able to find anywhere myself claiming Series S isn't gen 9? I guess not.

Erm, why does it matter what thread i am in? Weren't you in a Aaron Greenburgs article the other day? and you call me a hypocrite.

To add to your hypocritical standards is you seem to think MS is misleading consumers with the Series S while defending the idea of placing numbers to help sell a PRO over a XSS.. which is vastly superior in all ways except teraflops. (Which Teraflops mean little)

You honestly think its the same thing running a game with less fidelity than not running a game at all?

If all you care about is unit sales and not the customers buying them is quite shameful in my opinion, but that's you. Those customers you try to convince with the PRO will be mighty disappointed once they realize in a couple years the PRO becomes a brick to future games while the console that you are comparing it to will be running playable next gen games.

Oh and for the record, to remove the bias mentality from this topic you think i have, if Xbox did the exact same thing with the XB1X i would be saying the exact same thing. Its not a next gen compatible system. Last gen systems need to be discontinued to avoid confusion. That's why the Series S was made for those to move to next gen with a easier price tag, otherwise, why wouldn't Xbox do the same with the XB1X, an all round superior console to the PRO? Because again its not a next gen compatible system.

Last edited by Azzanation - on 07 January 2021

Azzanation said:
DonFerrari said:

Since you don't care the least about Playstation, then if there is nothing to talk on the Xbox here, why are you on this thread that is specifically on price cut for PS4. MS have to do on being misleading, that you claim Sony would by listing specs while MS isn't when they say it will run the same (when it doesn't). Quite harsh on a hypothetic scenario that a claim haven't even be made and apologetic when a claim was made.

Nope they don't need to be gen 9. Still you initially claimed only GPU was weaker than Series X, so looks like you were the misleading one.

Nope your can comparison have a company claiming their car is faster because it have a bigger engine, while the console would have one comparing specs of two systems. But again you want to be harsher to one case and even distort it to fit your claim while ignoring the other.

Of course it means something. If a company claim their console will do something and it doesn't that is what? Yes, misleading.

I ignored your question because you were doing a strawman. Were you able to find anywhere myself claiming Series S isn't gen 9? I guess not.

Erm, why does it matter what thread i am in? Weren't you in a Aaron Greenburgs article the other day? and you call me a hypocrite.

To add to your hypocritical standards is you seem to think MS is misleading consumers with the Series S while defending the idea of placing numbers to help sell a PRO over a XSS.. which is vastly superior in all ways except teraflops. (Which Teraflops mean little)

You honestly think its the same thing running a game with less fidelity than not running a game at all?

If all you care about is unit sales and not the customers buying them is quite shameful in my opinion, but that's you. Those customers you try to convince with the PRO will be mighty disappointed once they realize in a couple years the PRO becomes a brick to future games while the console that you are comparing it to will be running playable next gen games.

Oh and for the record, to remove the bias mentality from this topic you think i have, if Xbox did the exact same thing with the XB1X i would be saying the exact same thing. Its not a next gen compatible system. Last gen systems need to be discontinued to avoid confusion. That's why the Series S was made for those to move to next gen with a easier price tag, otherwise, why wouldn't Xbox do the same with the XB1X, an all round superior console to the PRO? Because again its not a next gen compatible system.

There have been many Aaron Greenburg articles, but most possibly I was, and discussing the subject. But you have plenty times said you don't care about Playstation, metrics, exclusives, etc but have been giving your "to balance the narrative" remarks.

Have I defended making the add? Nope, I was pointing that your comparison was very bad and that you was ok with a direct mislead on MS claims while against Sony only giving specs. And let's be real Sony doesn't need to do much to have Playstation selling over Xboox. TF means so little and MS also was very focused on promoting it on X1X and Series X right? Besides confusing names to confuse customers.

Have I said it is the same thing to run with less fidelity and not running? Guess not. But you have a very hard time admiting MS said one thing and isn't delivering and making a lot of excuses for it.

You don't even are about unit sales at all since MS started to lose on that field, to the point you had tried to convince us that isn't important and that MS had more gold subs than Sony had PS+ because you wrongly believed in misleading PR from MS that talked about all subs and compared to Sony, but soon after was of course prove wrong when Sony put out their MAU and was a lot higher than MS even though MS was braging about highest ever.

Way to close your argument saying you don't have a Xbox bias, everyone will certainly believe it.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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DonFerrari said:

There have been many Aaron Greenburg articles, but most possibly I was, and discussing the subject. But you have plenty times said you don't care about Playstation, metrics, exclusives, etc but have been giving your "to balance the narrative" remarks.

Have I defended making the add? Nope, I was pointing that your comparison was very bad and that you was ok with a direct mislead on MS claims while against Sony only giving specs. And let's be real Sony doesn't need to do much to have Playstation selling over Xboox. TF means so little and MS also was very focused on promoting it on X1X and Series X right? Besides confusing names to confuse customers.

Have I said it is the same thing to run with less fidelity and not running? Guess not. But you have a very hard time admiting MS said one thing and isn't delivering and making a lot of excuses for it.

You don't even are about unit sales at all since MS started to lose on that field, to the point you had tried to convince us that isn't important and that MS had more gold subs than Sony had PS+ because you wrongly believed in misleading PR from MS that talked about all subs and compared to Sony, but soon after was of course prove wrong when Sony put out their MAU and was a lot higher than MS even though MS was braging about highest ever.

Way to close your argument saying you don't have a Xbox bias, everyone will certainly believe it.

So many wrongs with your post and clearly in a defending (Said platform) mood. 

First off, you go into MS articles all the time to purposely downplay them, just look every time Phil and Aaron post something. Please link me where i am downplaying PS in this thread? I am simply stating to another user that its a bad decision (IF) Sony went with his idea of stat comparing a last gen system to a next gen system. My comparison makes perfect sense and you have not given any legit reason as to why is doesn't make any sense outside of "It doesn't make any sense" You are tricking the customers with numbers thinking if it has higher numbers than its more powerful meaning it can play next gen games just like what the Series S is doing, except the PRO cant. Do you see the point?

I don't have to care to post my opinion Don. Notice how you are bringing up other topics in this thread, i see your sneaky twisting and twirling methods quite clearly.

You are comparing fidelity to incompatible. I don't have neither a Series S/X or PS5, i am not interested in the next gen consoles but i will say that the PRO and the X are not next gen systems no matter how many TF they have.

Now lets ask a simple question. If the Series S is not a next gen system, than why would MS bother making the Series S when they could have simply used the X which has more TF and Bandwidth and Storage and its already out into the wild?

Last edited by Azzanation - on 08 January 2021

Azzanation said:
DonFerrari said:

There have been many Aaron Greenburg articles, but most possibly I was, and discussing the subject. But you have plenty times said you don't care about Playstation, metrics, exclusives, etc but have been giving your "to balance the narrative" remarks.

Have I defended making the add? Nope, I was pointing that your comparison was very bad and that you was ok with a direct mislead on MS claims while against Sony only giving specs. And let's be real Sony doesn't need to do much to have Playstation selling over Xboox. TF means so little and MS also was very focused on promoting it on X1X and Series X right? Besides confusing names to confuse customers.

Have I said it is the same thing to run with less fidelity and not running? Guess not. But you have a very hard time admiting MS said one thing and isn't delivering and making a lot of excuses for it.

You don't even are about unit sales at all since MS started to lose on that field, to the point you had tried to convince us that isn't important and that MS had more gold subs than Sony had PS+ because you wrongly believed in misleading PR from MS that talked about all subs and compared to Sony, but soon after was of course prove wrong when Sony put out their MAU and was a lot higher than MS even though MS was braging about highest ever.

Way to close your argument saying you don't have a Xbox bias, everyone will certainly believe it.

So many wrongs with your post and clearly in a defending (Said platform) mood. 

First off, you go into MS articles all the time to purposely downplay them, just look every time Phil and Aaron post something. Please link me where i am downplaying PS in this thread? I am simply stating to another user that its a bad decision (IF) Sony went with his idea of stat comparing a last gen system to a next gen system. My comparison makes perfect sense and you have not given any legit reason as to why is doesn't make any sense outside of "It doesn't make any sense" You are tricking the customers with numbers thinking if it has higher numbers than its more powerful meaning it can play next gen games just like what the Series S is doing, except the PRO cant. Do you see the point?

I don't have to care to post my opinion Don. Notice how you are bringing up other topics in this thread, i see your sneaky twisting and twirling methods quite clearly.

You are comparing fidelity to incompatible. I don't have neither a Series S/X or PS5, i am not interested in the next gen consoles but i will say that the PRO and the X are not next gen systems no matter how many TF they have.

Now lets ask a simple question. If the Series S is not a next gen system, than why would MS bother making the Series S when they could have simply used the X which has more TF and Bandwidth and Storage and its already out into the wild?

How am I defending a platform? The same way I asked you to show where I said Series S isn't gen 9 and you weren't able to provide it I'll ask you to show where I defended a platform.

I downplay the PR BS Phil and Aaron spout, and they are frequent. I have praised Series X BC capabilities, auto enhancement, auto HDR, etc. By guess that got over your head.

No you didn't say it was a bad idea you said it was misleading which isn't the same. And no your comparison won't make sense no matter how many times you repeat it. You comparison to be the same said company would have to just say the specs of Buick versus Porsche and that is it, when they directly say their car is faster because of the size of the engine that makes the comparison different because in the hypothetical scenario that started the discussion Sony wouldn't say anything about being next gen ready or even stronger than Series S, it would just list the specs that it had higher than Series S (as meaningless as anyone can think that is). Have no idea on your difficult to understand this simple point. Possibly you mixing concepts. If we go at your cars comparison again, let's say that buick due to the bigger engine say their car is stronger (and it also have higher HP) they also didn't mislead anyone, but again if they say their car is faster then that can be a lie (but not necessarily, perhaps it could do 0-60mph faster or have higher maximum speed, both could be used to mean faster, while on track Porsche would win a race because of cornering capability not because of acceleration or maximum speed... but will leave this out since you are having a hard time even on simpler concepts).

If you don't care about something but post negative stuff on topic then there is a specific name for it and you know you have already received several warnings for this behavior.

No I'm not comparing fidelity to compatibility. I'm comparing real misleading marketing against hypothetical non-misleading marketing and why you are harsher on one and apologetical for another. And doesn't mater you say you don't care about next gen consoles (even though you are again discussing it), it does mater that you defend MS all the time while pretending to have no Bias.

I can answer your last question with another one, then why did MS said they don't go after generations anymore, or making people buy HW but still make generational consoles with names that confuse customers?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

EricHiggin said:
Azzanation said:

Eric thats a horrible idea and a huge way to slap your customers in the face.

For example, the Series S is in another playing field when it comes to its preformance in all aspects. So comparing numbers which literally mean nothing only to lose out in the long term is not a good look.

Imagine you are one of the kids that saw an Add advertising the Pros specs with the XSS, and you convince your parants to buy one for you due to its price, only finding out in 1 years time, none of the next gen games work on the Pro while the XSS will be playing all next gen games for the next 5 to 10 years. 

You want that to happen to the customers just so Sony can sell more old units?

Is it really though? I mean, is XBSS truly next gen compared to XB1X and XBSX?

If you compare Pro to XB1X, Pro was way overpriced, yet nobody really seemed to care.

I also clearly stated that, "You wouldn't market Pro as next gen, but you would market the SNY brand and specs against XBSS."

As long as they weren't tricking people into thinking it'll be fully next gen capable machine by marketing it that way, then what's the problem? It's similar specs at a similar if not lesser price for a gaming console. Doesn't that exist already?

The thing is, comparing the Pro to any next-gen console implies that it has the same feature set and thus that it would be fully next-gen compatible unless they were to point that out - which would kill the Pro, so they certainly wouldn't go that way either.

EricHiggin said:
Darc Requiem said:

Someone needs to look at Series S specs. It's inferior to the Xbox One X in some regards. The One X has 12GB of RAM and 326GB/s memory bandwidth. The Series S has 10GB of RAM and 224GB/s memory bandwith. It's not across the board superior in everyway like the Series X.

OMG you're right.. MS has been lying to consumers and cheating them this entire time! They even had the nerve to discontinue the next gen XB1X and insert a last gen XBSS.

Wasn't and isn't the XBSX marketed as the most powerful next gen console by far? Then how is it that PS5 outperforms it so often, even in third party?

How shameful.

That doesn't mean much.

Modern GPU software can handle bigger textures with less memory than what the One X had. And the S has a much stronger CPU, meaning the GPU of the S doesn't have to pull double duty anymore and support the CPU left, right, and center all the time

And going back to your TFlops comparison: keep in mind that the 6800 trounces the Vega 64 and Vega VII despite both having about the same TFlops than the 6800, and the 5700XT curbstomps them already despite having a lower TFlops.

So all in all, those 4TFlops are certainly enough to beat what the One X had on pretty much every single front, and it doesn't need as fast memory to work with it. 

Last edited by Bofferbrauer2 - on 08 January 2021

DonFerrari said:
Azzanation said:

So many wrongs with your post and clearly in a defending (Said platform) mood. 

First off, you go into MS articles all the time to purposely downplay them, just look every time Phil and Aaron post something. Please link me where i am downplaying PS in this thread? I am simply stating to another user that its a bad decision (IF) Sony went with his idea of stat comparing a last gen system to a next gen system. My comparison makes perfect sense and you have not given any legit reason as to why is doesn't make any sense outside of "It doesn't make any sense" You are tricking the customers with numbers thinking if it has higher numbers than its more powerful meaning it can play next gen games just like what the Series S is doing, except the PRO cant. Do you see the point?

I don't have to care to post my opinion Don. Notice how you are bringing up other topics in this thread, i see your sneaky twisting and twirling methods quite clearly.

You are comparing fidelity to incompatible. I don't have neither a Series S/X or PS5, i am not interested in the next gen consoles but i will say that the PRO and the X are not next gen systems no matter how many TF they have.

Now lets ask a simple question. If the Series S is not a next gen system, than why would MS bother making the Series S when they could have simply used the X which has more TF and Bandwidth and Storage and its already out into the wild?

How am I defending a platform? The same way I asked you to show where I said Series S isn't gen 9 and you weren't able to provide it I'll ask you to show where I defended a platform.

I downplay the PR BS Phil and Aaron spout, and they are frequent. I have praised Series X BC capabilities, auto enhancement, auto HDR, etc. By guess that got over your head.

No you didn't say it was a bad idea you said it was misleading which isn't the same. And no your comparison won't make sense no matter how many times you repeat it. You comparison to be the same said company would have to just say the specs of Buick versus Porsche and that is it, when they directly say their car is faster because of the size of the engine that makes the comparison different because in the hypothetical scenario that started the discussion Sony wouldn't say anything about being next gen ready or even stronger than Series S, it would just list the specs that it had higher than Series S (as meaningless as anyone can think that is). Have no idea on your difficult to understand this simple point. Possibly you mixing concepts. If we go at your cars comparison again, let's say that buick due to the bigger engine say their car is stronger (and it also have higher HP) they also didn't mislead anyone, but again if they say their car is faster then that can be a lie (but not necessarily, perhaps it could do 0-60mph faster or have higher maximum speed, both could be used to mean faster, while on track Porsche would win a race because of cornering capability not because of acceleration or maximum speed... but will leave this out since you are having a hard time even on simpler concepts).

If you don't care about something but post negative stuff on topic then there is a specific name for it and you know you have already received several warnings for this behavior.

No I'm not comparing fidelity to compatibility. I'm comparing real misleading marketing against hypothetical non-misleading marketing and why you are harsher on one and apologetical for another. And doesn't mater you say you don't care about next gen consoles (even though you are again discussing it), it does mater that you defend MS all the time while pretending to have no Bias.

I can answer your last question with another one, then why did MS said they don't go after generations anymore, or making people buy HW but still make generational consoles with names that confuse customers?

You purposely downplay articles that don't concern you. I am simply stating that number comparisons is a bad decision if they do it, and i replied to someone that isn't you in this thread.

Its also misleading because why even compare the numbers? Clearly trying to convince people to buy in, just like my car comparison, the PS4 PRO is old hardware, it has a decent engine but compared to a new machine like the Series S, all the numbers would be doing is mislead customers into thinking "Hmm 4.2 Teraflops is more than 4 Teraflops, that console must be more powerful, ill buy that one" and in reality, that console will be bricked in a year with new games. Hence why i disagreed with the idea.

Microsoft still go buy generations

Phil Spencer confident about future Xbox generations (micky.com.au)

The term generations means different things. A 9th gen console can play 9th gen games, a 8th gen console cannot. This is why comparing the PRO and XSS is pointless because its like bragging a car has a bigger engine (Teraflops/Horsepower) and gets destroyed in a race against a new car with less (Teraflops/Horsepower) My exact point.

I am posting my opinion on someones idea, this is not an attack on your beloved Sony. If you don't agree with my opinion, Get over it. You are the one that intruded my conversation with someone else.

Last edited by Azzanation - on 08 January 2021

Azzanation said:
EricHiggin said:

An SSD on a PS4 doesn't make much difference because it's SATA II as far as I know. Pro has SATA III and can make a fairly significant difference when it comes to things like load times or pop in. I know an SSD in Pro wouldn't make it like a PS5.

You wouldn't market Pro as next gen, but you would market the SNY brand and specs against XBSS.

8 Cores vs 8 Cores.

4.2 TF vs 4.0 TF.

1TB SSD vs 512GB SSD.

Pro even has 9GB RAM total vs XBSS 10GB RAM.

I think it could work if SNY planned to keep selling a version of the PS4 if not both. They could still keep PS4 and have it at $199 in this scenario.

Eric thats a horrible idea and a huge way to slap your customers in the face.

For example, the Series S is in another playing field when it comes to its preformance in all aspects. So comparing numbers which literally mean nothing only to lose out in the long term is not a good look.

Imagine you are one of the kids that saw an Add advertising the Pros specs with the XSS, and you convince your parants to buy one for you due to its price, only finding out in 1 years time, none of the next gen games work on the Pro while the XSS will be playing all next gen games for the next 5 to 10 years. 

You want that to happen to the customers just so Sony can sell more old units?

If I remember right, I think you were a person who didn't care about hardware sales numbers.



My prediction in 2021.

SW: 30m

PS5 16m

XBS: 7.5m