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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Xbox Series S design leaked, Confirmed at $300 this Holiday (Series X = $500)

EricHiggin on 09 September 2020
Shaunodon said:

Just to get an idea of the BC, some gameplay of Gears 5 on Series S at 120fps:

Doesn't mention resolution, so I'm guessing it's probably 1440p. Lower resolution than One X but getting a massive framerate boost. I'd expect similar for most BC games.

For some 4K tvs, if you want a slightly cheaper one for gaming that doesn't have a full HDMI 2.1 port with 4K/120hz, but may have one for 1440p/120hz, Series S would fit perfectly. If you want to stream media at 4K, or if some older BC games will output at 4K, you just have to switch ports.

This is actually a great little presentation.

Most importantly, it makes it quite clear that each system is designed for a specific market, but that they are part of the same no hassle ecosystem. 

I do think they should make it more clear that XBSS is for 1080p, even if it can do 1440p. Casuals and their parents are going to be like wtf is 1440p?

Otherwise this messaging and marketing was done well.



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yvanjean on 09 September 2020
Conina said:
yvanjean said:

I'll correct you, Microsoft is using game pass to subsidized the consoles and is not going to charge any interest.

Xbox Series S -> Console $300 / 24 months = $12.50/Month and Gamepass ultimate would be 25.00 - 12.50 = $12.50/Month. 

Xbox Series X -> Console $499 / 24 months = $20.83/Month and gamepass ultimate would be 35.00 - 20.83 = $14.17/Month.

You are getting a slight discount on Gamepass Ultimate. There also time value of money which makes the deal even better since you don't have to pay the full cost upfront. The only catch is you made a commitment to Gamepass Ultimate and might wind up not really using it. But, it's an amazing deal for this coming holiday season, really reduce the burden on families during hard times.

But there are much better deals to get 2 - 3 years GamePass Ultimate.

Last month I got 28 months of GamePass Ultimate for €60:

  • I bought a 12-month-Gold keys for €23. While activating it via VPN, I got an additional month for auto-renewal -> XBL Gold until 2021-09-02
  • I bought a second 12-month-Gold keys for €23 and got an additional month for auto-renewal -> XBL Gold until 2022-10-02
  • then I bought 1 month GamePass PC (Beta) for €1 -> XBL Gold until 2021-10-02 + PC GamePass until 2020-09-02
  • then I bought 1 month GamePass Ultimate for €13 -> GamePass Ultimate until 2022-12-02, the other subscriptions ended
  • at the end I canceled the auto-renewal of the subscription

So the 26 months XBL Gold, 1 month GamePass PC and 1 month GamePass Ultimate all added up, which results in monthly costs of €2.14 (€60 / 28 months).

Instead of paying 600 $/€ for a Series S (25 $/€ x 24 months) + GamePass Ultimate my total costs would be 359 € (so 241 € less).

Instead of paying 840 $/€ for a Series X (35 $/€ x 24 months) + GamePass Ultimate my total costs would be 559 € (so 281 € less).

I did mine a while ago, unfortunately my Gamepass Ultimate expires in Jan 2022. if you bought the deal it would extend your Gamepass ultimate to 2024-12-02.

That's only the current promo to get people to switch from Xbox live to Xbox gamepass Ultimate. It won't be around when new Xbox owners come to the new consoles. I don't know what kind of discount Xbox Live code you got your hands on but 24 months Xbox Live is $94.99 and 12 months is $54.99 at costco.com right now. You obviously got a good deal at 23 euro but that not the normal price or the price a casual gamer would pay. You are also comparing to a promo that the casual market won't take advantage. 

But, it doesn't change the fact that for some people they don't want to put down $299 or $499 and would rather pay in installment. They also get a slight discount on Xbox Gamepass Ultimate. 

I will pre-order my Xbox Series X, but doesn't mean I don't see how this could be appealing for some people. 



chakkra on 09 September 2020
shikamaru317 said:

As far as I know, when MS says it is designed to play games at up to 1440p, they are referring to actual next-gen games. I see no reason why it couldn't output higher than 1440p, specs wise it is close enough to Xbox One X it should at least be able to handle native 4K on indie titles that aren't graphically demanding. 

I do hope that Series S is capable of playing BC games that were XB1 X enhanced with XB1 X settings, but with there being less and slower RAM than on XB1 X, I just don't know if it is possible, we'll have to wait and see.

The whole point of moving to SSD was so they could use it to make up for the lack of RAM, as having a gen-leap in RAM would've been too expensive (as the thousands of posts about the PS5 SSD pointed out), so yeah, the more powerful CPU coupled with the SSD should do the trick. I mean, they just showed Gears 5 running at 120fps.



Immersiveunreality on 10 September 2020

hmm depending on the exclusives some years in i might actually get this little one.



Shaunodon on 10 September 2020
Conina said:
Xbox Series X has 200% more GPU performance, 100% more SSD space, 60% more RAM, 150% higher bandwidth (fast RAM), 500% higher bandwidth (slower RAM) and an UHD optical drive... for just 67% more money.

I'd never settle for the Series S instead of Series X for $200 / €200 difference. Series X is the much better deal IMHO.

Well obviously in this case, if you're spending more you're getting more, including more overall value for your bucks. The problem is the 'spending more' part. Whether or not it's better value, it's still $200 more expensive.

And if you plan to actually utilise the better value of that purchase, then you also have to spend more for a 4K tv to do so. And if you want to really get the max benefits, you also have to spend a lot more for a 4K tv ready with HDMI 2.1 (4K/120), when you can comparitively get decent and cheaper 4K tvs with 1440p/120 slots (perfect for Series S 120fps gaming, and 4K streaming).

So sure. If you're in a position where you can keep paying more.. and more.. and more, eventually, you'll get great value for your purchases. Not everyone is in that position right now.

Series S is a great alternative for people that aren't concerned about all that, or future-proofing for it, and just want a cheap option to get in to next-gen early. Not people like forum-dwellers that keep track of everything in the industry, and want to absolutely min-max everything they buy and every dollar they spend.



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drkohler on 10 September 2020
Conina said:
Xbox Series X has ... 150% higher bandwidth (fast RAM), 500% higher bandwidth (slower RAM)

There is absolutely no problem with Series S ram speeds. It's actually slight overkill on the fast ram speed.

56GB/s for the slower Ram is rather close to what the Zen2 memory controller can pull off worst case, the 224GB/s for the fast ram is due to the memory controller layout for the gddr6. This is why MS can get away with the cheap 14GBit/p chips.

Consider this: The Series S memory needs to feed 20CUs at 1.5GHz, that is only (20/52) * (1.5/1.8) = 1/3 the bandwidth of the Series X.



freedquaker on 10 September 2020
shikamaru317 said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

Wait so it has the same CPU as the Series X, paired up with a weak GPU? This thing better come with  3-6 months of Gamepass Ultimate!

I wouldn't call it weak, it has just enough juice to do what MS intends it to do, play next-gen games at 1080p-1440p. Digital Foundry did a video earlier this year where they downclocked a Radeon RX 5500 XT to 4.3 tflop, about what Series S has, and compared it against the 9.2 tflop 5700 XT (which is a bit less than the TFLOP rating of the PS5). These were the results:

Hitman 2- Console Quality settings

GPU 1080p 1440p 4K
RX 5500 XT (4.3 TFLOP) 80.9 FPS Average 58.2 FPS 32.5 FPS
RX 5700 XT (9.2 TFLOP) 62.4 FPS

Wolfenstein: The New Colossus- Console quality settings

GPU 1080p 1440p 4K
RX 5500 XT (4.3 TFLOP) 149 FPS 98 FPS 48 FPS
RX 5700 XT (9.2 TFLOP) 92 FPS

Control- Console Quality Settings

GPU 1080p 1440p 4K
RX 5500 XT (4.3 TFLOP) 61 FPS 37 FPS 17 FPS
RX 5700 XT (9.2 TFLOP) 37 FPS

What do those results show? Well basically, that the 4 TFLOP Series S should be able to play the same games that the 10.3 tflop (or less depending on how the variable clock works) PS5 plays at native 4K, at somewhere between 1080p and 1440p depending on each game, with the game graphics settings from the PC version.

When I extrapolated the RX 5500 to 4 TF and the RX 5700 to 12.3 TF to have a rough comparison of Series S vs Series X based on the data from these 3 games, this is what I have found....

THE AVERAGE RELATIVE PERFORMANCE of Series S to Series X is

1) Assuming teraflops scale linearly (1 to 1),

a) Series S on 1080p relative to Series X on 4K = 1.06 (6% more frames)
b) Series S on 1440p relative to Series X on 4K = 0.70 (30% less frames)
c) Series S on 4K relative to Series X on 4K = 0.35 (65% less frames)

2) Assuming teraflops scale less than linearly (less than 1 to 1)

a) Series S on 1080p relative to Series X on 4K = 1.26 (26% more frames)
b) Series S on 1440p relative to Series X on 4K = 0.83 (17% less frames)
c) Series S on 4K relative to Series X on 4K = 0.41 (59% less frames)

3) Assuming an average of those two scenarios

a) Series S on 1080p relative to Series X on 4K = 1.16 (16% more frames)
b) Series S on 1440p relative to Series X on 4K = 0.76 (24% less frames)
c) Series S on 4K relative to Series X on 4K = 0.38 (62% less frames)

In Summary, Series S is more than capable of producing the 1080p version of the same visuals in 4K produced by Series X. However, it will most likely fall short to do the same in 1440p by about 25% and some sacrifices need to be made. In essence, users will likely toggle between 1080p high and 1440p medium settings, compared to 4k high in Series X.



Playstation 5 vs XBox Series Market Share Estimates

Regional Analysis  (only MS and Sony Consoles)
Europe     => XB1 : 23-24 % vs PS4 : 76-77%
N. America => XB1 :  49-52% vs PS4 : 48-51%
Global     => XB1 :  32-34% vs PS4 : 66-68%

Sales Estimations for 8th Generation Consoles

Next Gen Consoles Impressions and Estimates

EnricoPallazzo on 10 September 2020

Any idea how backward compatibility will work? Lets say I buy a series S and have gta4 for xbox360. How will I activate it on series s?



0D0 on 10 September 2020
Fei-Hung said:
Can you imagine all the kids that want an xbox x series for Xmas and parents end up getting them a series S lol

At that price, a lot of people will impulse buy. I'm not interested at all in the next gen xbox but at £250 I was thinking why not. Then I stood back and thought wait, half a TB isn't a lot, and what will the next gen games look like on this thing. Its a third of the performance of a series X, and under 60% under the ps5. Will they run like shit, look like shit, what features will we miss out on. Am I better off holding back until there is a price drop?

Might be worth as a streaming media hub that happens to play games maybe.

One thing is for sure though, Sony will be thinking wtf unless they can bring the digital down to £300-350 and offer it with a 512gb SDD too. If they can, they will be happy.

My opinion as well. I want a PS5, but I could pick up both considering the S price. But discless and half TB is tough. :(



God bless You.

My Total Sales prediction for PS4 by the end of 2021: 110m+

When PS4 will hit 100m consoles sold: Before Christmas 2019

There were three ravens sat on a tree / They were as blacke as they might be / The one of them said to his mate, Where shall we our breakfast take?


0D0 on 10 September 2020
Otter said:

I think a lot of you are intentionally ignoring the obvious fact that you are not the target market. Yes if you care about discs, 4k and can casually throw $100 extra on a purchase the Series S is not appealing...

Plenty of people stopped buying physical media years ago (my last physical came with my PS4 Pro). Plenty of people do not have 4k displays and do not care about super high resolutions. Resolution is not what what makes a next gen experience, Ratchet and Clank looks awesome and next gen regardless of whether you're viewing it at 1080p or 4k. Plenty of people do not feel comfortable throwing big bucks on video game consoles, plenty are just casual gamers (or parents) and so typically wait years down the line to buy one at a lower price they're comfortable with. This makes the generation accessible to them from the beginning. 

Agreed. For parents and casuals, this is the console to go for. Particularly considering the monthly plan. That's a gorgeous proposition.

If disc-less PS5 is more expensive than S, parents can get really confused. For them, they're just new gen consoles, regardless of the tech inside.

I don't know if it still can win over PS5 in the long or even short run, though.



God bless You.

My Total Sales prediction for PS4 by the end of 2021: 110m+

When PS4 will hit 100m consoles sold: Before Christmas 2019

There were three ravens sat on a tree / They were as blacke as they might be / The one of them said to his mate, Where shall we our breakfast take?