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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Tomshardware - Xbox Series X hot chips 2020 Deep Dive.

EpicRandy said:

I think 599 is possible only if Sony use the same pricing.
Spec/cost wise it makes more sense at 599 but if the ps5 goes for 499 I bet Microsoft are willing to subside to match that price.
Sony are probably in the exact same situation which is probably why both of them still did not reveal pricing.

If anything they will try not make a big loss on Series X because the early adopters, hardcore and scalpers will pay for Series X this holiday. MS is already preparing us with 'leaks' from Youtubers' and influencers.

The subsidization will be with the cheaper Series S as it will be most likely be the cheaper all digital model.



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JRPGfan said:
kirby007 said:
499 book it

Xbox One X, launched at 500$.
Now every part of the Xbox Series X is more expensive, and you expect the same price?
If it happends, its because a loss is taken on each unit sale, thats in the order of probably 50-100$.

I think this is more likely to play out:

Xbox Series X: 549-599$   (50$ loss or breakeven)
Playstation 5 (disc) : 499$  (break even)
Playstation 5 (discless) : 399$ (this will be sold at huge a loss (~70$), digital returns to recoup some of it)
Xbox Series Y: 299-349$  (breakeven, not quite sure how much cheaper you can get it, by makeing a 4TF model)

*edit: Hell maybe even the discless version is only 50$ cheaper than the PS5. So 449$ instead of 499$.

Xbox One X was almost certainly selling at a small profit at $500 on launch. It released a year after PS4 Pro and still cost $100 more than PS4 Pro did at launch. Also, it got price drops really quickly, MS wouldn't have been able to afford to do price drops that quickly if XB1 X was being sold at a loss on release or even at cost. So, while Xbox Series X almost certainly has a higher bill of materials than XB1 X did, it's also heavily rumored that MS is planning on selling it at a loss.

JRPGfan said:
Captain_Yuri said:

That cost slide is making me think it could reach that $600 that DF was suggesting or even $549. I am fairly confident Series X won't be priced lower than $500 now more than ever though.

Its either 549$ or 599$.

Something tells me the PS5 chip is cheaper.
Its supposedly only 36 CU (with no redundency's) and the Xbox Series X is 56 CU's (with 4 disabled).
Thats gonna amount of a large differnce in the size of the APU inside both.

If playstation launched at 499$ while the Xbox Series X is 599$, that could account for why Phil Spencer resently came out and said "Selling as many consoles as Sony or Nintendo is not our approach". This could be a case of, if you want 20% more performance than the Playstation 5, you need to pay for it.

While it is true that PS5's chipset will be less expensive than Series X's chipset since it has alot less CU's, you have to remember that it has increased costs coming in other areas: 

  1. PS5's SSD is going to be substantially more expensive that Series X's SSD. It is custom made and about twice as fast, faster even then comparably sized PC SSD's that are currently selling for like $250 at retail.
  2. PS5's case is likely slightly more expensive than Series X's case. It is larger, meaning more plastics and metal will be needed to make it.
  3. PS5 almost certainly has multiple fans to help keep it cool, since they are relying so heavily on overclocking their GPU, and each extra fan above Series X's single fan will add to the cost.
  4. PS5's controller is chock full of tech that the Series X controller lacks, motors for the impulse triggers, advanced haptic feedback, touchpad, microphone, speaker, internal battery. I'd be willing to bet that the PS5 controller costs at least $15 more to make than the Series X controllers do, and since each system will come bundled with a controller, that adds to the consoles overall bill of materials.

I wouldn't be surprised if the bill of materials for Series X and PS5 are very close to one another. What will matter is if one or both of them is willing to sell at a loss, unlike this gen where both console were sold at cost at launch ($381 BOM for PS4 and $471 BOM for XB1 back in 2013). Rumor is MS is willing to sell at a loss on Series X, which is also why they reportedly delayed their August Xbox announcements into September, they clearly want Sony to announce pricing first so that they can undercut them or at least price match them. Sony meanwhile will likely be willing to sell the discless PS5 at a loss since digital software sales have higher profit margins for them, but I'm not so sure that they will be willing to sell the disc drive PS5 at a loss as well. We could very well see discless PS5 and XSX coming in at the same price, with disc drive PS5 costing $50 more.

Last edited by shikamaru317 - on 17 August 2020

hinch said:
EpicRandy said:

I think 599 is possible only if Sony use the same pricing.
Spec/cost wise it makes more sense at 599 but if the ps5 goes for 499 I bet Microsoft are willing to subside to match that price.
Sony are probably in the exact same situation which is probably why both of them still did not reveal pricing.

If anything they will try not make a big loss on Series X because the early adopters, hardcore and scalpers will pay for Series X this holiday. MS is already preparing us with 'leaks' from Youtubers' and influencers.

The subsidization will be with the cheaper Series S as it will be most likely be the cheaper all digital model.

It's the most likely scenario but still hope it's not the case as it would be priced CAD/AUD 800$ (unless they're willing to take a loss on canadian/australian markets and price it as CAD/AUD $700?). At this price it better come with a great discount in exchange of an old Xbox one or I'll pass/upgrade my pc instead. 





BraLoD said:
Both consoles will be $500, that was always going to be the case.
Any cent over $500 and its dead on arrival, that would be really stupid.

Agree. Neither is crazy enough to go above $500. 



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EpicRandy said:

I think 599 is possible only if Sony use the same pricing.
Spec/cost wise it makes more sense at 599 but if the ps5 goes for 499 I bet Microsoft are willing to subside to match that price.
Sony are probably in the exact same situation which is probably why both of them still did not reveal pricing.

Yep, both want to announce the highest possible price that is cheaper than the competitor so both are delaying the announcement.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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shikamaru317 said:
JRPGfan said:

Xbox One X, launched at 500$.
Now every part of the Xbox Series X is more expensive, and you expect the same price?
If it happends, its because a loss is taken on each unit sale, thats in the order of probably 50-100$.

I think this is more likely to play out:

Xbox Series X: 549-599$   (50$ loss or breakeven)
Playstation 5 (disc) : 499$  (break even)
Playstation 5 (discless) : 399$ (this will be sold at huge a loss (~70$), digital returns to recoup some of it)
Xbox Series Y: 299-349$  (breakeven, not quite sure how much cheaper you can get it, by makeing a 4TF model)

*edit: Hell maybe even the discless version is only 50$ cheaper than the PS5. So 449$ instead of 499$.

Xbox One X was almost certainly selling at a small profit at $500 on launch. It released a year after PS4 Pro and still cost $100 more than PS4 Pro did at launch. Also, it got price drops really quickly, MS wouldn't have been able to afford to do price drops that quickly if XB1 X was being sold at a loss on release or even at cost. So, while Xbox Series X almost certainly has a higher bill of materials than XB1 X did, it's also heavily rumored that MS is planning on selling it at a loss.

JRPGfan said:

Its either 549$ or 599$.

Something tells me the PS5 chip is cheaper.
Its supposedly only 36 CU (with no redundency's) and the Xbox Series X is 56 CU's (with 4 disabled).
Thats gonna amount of a large differnce in the size of the APU inside both.

If playstation launched at 499$ while the Xbox Series X is 599$, that could account for why Phil Spencer resently came out and said "Selling as many consoles as Sony or Nintendo is not our approach". This could be a case of, if you want 20% more performance than the Playstation 5, you need to pay for it.

While it is true that PS5's chipset will be less expensive than Series X's chipset since it has alot less CU's, you have to remember that it has increased costs coming in other areas: 

  1. PS5's SSD is going to be substantially more expensive that Series X's SSD. It is custom made and about twice as fast, faster even then comparably sized PC SSD's that are currently selling for like $250 at retail.
  2. PS5's case is likely slightly more expensive than Series X's case. It is larger, meaning more plastics and metal will be needed to make it.
  3. PS5 almost certainly has multiple fans to help keep it cool, since they are relying so heavily on overclocking their GPU, and each extra fan above Series X's single fan will add to the cost.
  4. PS5's controller is chock full of tech that the Series X controller lacks, motors for the impulse triggers, advanced haptic feedback, touchpad, microphone, speaker, internal battery. I'd be willing to bet that the PS5 controller costs at least $15 more to make than the Series X controllers do, and since each system will come bundled with a controller, that adds to the consoles overall bill of materials.

I wouldn't be surprised if the bill of materials for Series X and PS5 are very close to one another. What will matter is if one or both of them is willing to sell at a loss, unlike this gen where both console were sold at cost at launch ($381 BOM for PS4 and $471 BOM for XB1 back in 2013). Rumor is MS is willing to sell at a loss on Series X, which is also why they reportedly delayed their August Xbox announcements into September, they clearly want Sony to announce pricing first so that they can undercut them or at least price match them. Sony meanwhile will likely be willing to sell the discless PS5 at a loss since digital software sales have higher profit margins for them, but I'm not so sure that they will be willing to sell the disc drive PS5 at a loss as well. We could very well see discless PS5 and XSX coming in at the same price, with disc drive PS5 costing $50 more.

Best estimates on BOM so far is PS5 about 450 and XSX 480 if I'm not wrong.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

EpicRandy said:
hinch said:

If anything they will try not make a big loss on Series X because the early adopters, hardcore and scalpers will pay for Series X this holiday. MS is already preparing us with 'leaks' from Youtubers' and influencers.

The subsidization will be with the cheaper Series S as it will be most likely be the cheaper all digital model.

It's the most likely scenario but still hope it's not the case as it would be priced CAD/AUD 800$ (unless they're willing to take a loss on canadian/australian markets and price it as CAD/AUD $700?). At this price it better come with a great discount in exchange of an old Xbox one or I'll pass/upgrade my pc instead. 

Yeah Aussies and Canadians usually pay more. A bit like us in UK, there is usually quite a big difference in what we pay vs US. Aka getting ripped by taxes and import fees.

I mean thats usually how it goes. Lower end is cheaper and high end more expensive to make up for it. But hopefully that's not the case and both with be around the $500-$550 USD mark.. for all our sakes lol.



DonFerrari said:
EpicRandy said:

I think 599 is possible only if Sony use the same pricing.
Spec/cost wise it makes more sense at 599 but if the ps5 goes for 499 I bet Microsoft are willing to subside to match that price.
Sony are probably in the exact same situation which is probably why both of them still did not reveal pricing.

Yep, both want to announce the highest possible price that is cheaper than the competitor so both are delaying the announcement.

At this point I think it is more a battle over not being more expensive rather than a battle to be cheaper.

Microsoft probably does not want to take a loss and Sony probably want to cash in on it's brand recognition.

Funnily enough, if they old back price announcement longer still, they might both end up pricing their console at $499 over fear that the competition would be cheaper while both would actualy have wanted a $599 price tag.





DonFerrari said:
shikamaru317 said:

Xbox One X was almost certainly selling at a small profit at $500 on launch. It released a year after PS4 Pro and still cost $100 more than PS4 Pro did at launch. Also, it got price drops really quickly, MS wouldn't have been able to afford to do price drops that quickly if XB1 X was being sold at a loss on release or even at cost. So, while Xbox Series X almost certainly has a higher bill of materials than XB1 X did, it's also heavily rumored that MS is planning on selling it at a loss.

While it is true that PS5's chipset will be less expensive than Series X's chipset since it has alot less CU's, you have to remember that it has increased costs coming in other areas: 

  1. PS5's SSD is going to be substantially more expensive that Series X's SSD. It is custom made and about twice as fast, faster even then comparably sized PC SSD's that are currently selling for like $250 at retail.
  2. PS5's case is likely slightly more expensive than Series X's case. It is larger, meaning more plastics and metal will be needed to make it.
  3. PS5 almost certainly has multiple fans to help keep it cool, since they are relying so heavily on overclocking their GPU, and each extra fan above Series X's single fan will add to the cost.
  4. PS5's controller is chock full of tech that the Series X controller lacks, motors for the impulse triggers, advanced haptic feedback, touchpad, microphone, speaker, internal battery. I'd be willing to bet that the PS5 controller costs at least $15 more to make than the Series X controllers do, and since each system will come bundled with a controller, that adds to the consoles overall bill of materials.

I wouldn't be surprised if the bill of materials for Series X and PS5 are very close to one another. What will matter is if one or both of them is willing to sell at a loss, unlike this gen where both console were sold at cost at launch ($381 BOM for PS4 and $471 BOM for XB1 back in 2013). Rumor is MS is willing to sell at a loss on Series X, which is also why they reportedly delayed their August Xbox announcements into September, they clearly want Sony to announce pricing first so that they can undercut them or at least price match them. Sony meanwhile will likely be willing to sell the discless PS5 at a loss since digital software sales have higher profit margins for them, but I'm not so sure that they will be willing to sell the disc drive PS5 at a loss as well. We could very well see discless PS5 and XSX coming in at the same price, with disc drive PS5 costing $50 more.

Best estimates on BOM so far is PS5 about 450 and XSX 480 if I'm not wrong.

Haven't seen that $480 BOM leak for Series X. I remember a $450 BOM leak for PS5 back in February I think, though there was a later report from that same site that said that PS5's BOM may have been increased since then due to part shortages caused by Covid shutdowns. Around the same time as the $450 PS5 BOM leak, Zhuge said he heard that the XSX BOM was somewhere in the $460-510 range, so a $480 BOM is definitely possible. I definitely don't think either MS or Sony will be willing to sell above $500. So maybe we will see Series X and disc drive PS5 both at $500 with discless at $450. Or maybe MS will be willing to see Series X at a larger loss to price match the discless PS5 instead, which they might have to do with their main system seller delayed.



hinch said:
EpicRandy said:

It's the most likely scenario but still hope it's not the case as it would be priced CAD/AUD 800$ (unless they're willing to take a loss on canadian/australian markets and price it as CAD/AUD $700?). At this price it better come with a great discount in exchange of an old Xbox one or I'll pass/upgrade my pc instead. 

Yeah Aussies and Canadians usually pay more. A bit like us in UK, there is usually quite a big difference in what we pay vs US. Aka getting ripped by taxes and import fees.

I mean thats usually how it goes. Lower end is cheaper and high end more expensive to make up for it. But hopefully that's not the case and both with be around the $500-$550 USD mark.. for all our sakes lol.

Another (least likely) scenario is that Microsoft is using "leaks" to bait Sony in a higher price tier. Which would be kinda amusing. 

Anyway, I guess whoever goes first would still be able to do a fake PR stunt like AMD did last year with Navi reveal.

Last edited by EpicRandy - on 17 August 2020