Forums - Gaming Discussion - What's with the Unity engine?

EpicRandy said:
Soren0079 said:

Ah, Unity has dealt with all of these issues but game development takes many many years for big budget games so we probably won't see anything signifigant for another two or so years.
The issue is that Unity doesn't ussually develop it's own AAA games to show off it's tech like Epic does with Fortnite and it used to do with Gears of War.
Unity does develop VR,AR and CGI animated films to show their tech instead.
I suppose Iron Man VR would be the first big game made since Unity fixed the 3 issues that you mentioned. (Actually that might be COD Mobile).

Issue 1 and 2 may have been dealt with by Unity, number 3 thought may only be deal with by devs themselves through business decision, investment in formation,smaller project to get used to and/or hiring. The bigger the studio is the harder it is to make the switch.


On the other side c# development should result in cost reduction which is the main benefits of Unity but it has yet to convince most big studios.

I should probably have thought about the third issue more. The Switch to C# over C++ is less about the developers expereince and skill and more to do with third party middleware being compatible with Unity as so many large studios use a variety of tools to make their games.
Although Unity could just make better deals with large publishers like Activision Blizzard or EA to entice them but now that Epic is massive there is no way that Unity can ever compete with them again unless a corporation like Microsoft invest in them just like Tencent did with Epic games. They don't have the resources for it but they are still top of the VR/AR and mobile market so who knows what will happen going forward.



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Just to showcase what games are possible with Unity, Wikipedia has a nice little list of games made with the engine:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unity_games

This also includes some AA/AAA games, like ARMA, Homeworld or official NASCAR games.



Zkuq said:
EpicRandy said:

It's absolutely possible for unity games to have stunning visual.
The problem, like others pointed at, is that it is more used with Indie than AAA.
From my experience 3 main issue come to mind as to why that is. (this maybe a little dated mind you)
1) Unity have frequent update which add/update/remove feature which does not help for stability. So if you develop an AAA stability of the engine is important.
2) The way unity save scenes is not trivial to use with source control and merge tool for code sharing.
3) Unity use C# (which is awesome) but the vast majority of AAA dev still use C++/Unreal. Even tough C# is way more user friendly and readable than C++/unreal dev teams skills and experience would have to completely be renewed which would be both costly and time consumming.

  1. The updates are not mandatory, so not sure what the issue is.
  2. This might indeed be somewhat problematic. I don't know how other engines handle it though, so can't say whether other engines have it better, but this certainly seems like it could be better.
  3. I'm not sure how much of a problem this really is. Lots of devs hate C++ because of how bloated the language has become, although I'm sure sure how widespread this hate exactly is among game devs. That said, picking up a language such as C# shouldn't be much of a hindrance for anyone who knows C++, so it's hard to imagine the cost of picking up a new language being a major factor here. That said, C# might have one issue for performance-critical software such as many games: the garbage collector and the pauses it causes. I would expect the garbage collector to be more of an issue compared to the time it takes to learn a new programming language such as C#.

I'm not sure how much experience you have with these things of course (you were a bit vague), so if I'm wrong, I'd certainly like to hear about it.

the issue with number 1 seems to be resolve now with more stable update cycle. But I remember once that I updated it for much needed improvements only to find out that hitbox collision with concave object was now broke and I used it extensively (it was about 5 year ago). So I guess you could choose not to update but you may be loosing on improvements for stability concern. In the end you'd probably branch the project, update Unity, test extensively, decide if you keep the update or not, and workaround issue if you choose to update. All this process is time consuming and more difficult with larger teams. It certainly had an impact on decision to switch to unity back then.

For number 3, you'r right, it's way easier to switch from C++ to C# than the other way. I used to work for a company that made video games for casino machine in C and C++ 10 years ago and switched to work as a software engineers when the company had difficulties and had to let go 1/3 of its staff. Now I work mainly in C#/javascript. The switch was fairly easy for me to do, but it was not the case for many others (mind you some were working purely in C which is not even object oriented). 

Funnily enough this company have now got back on it's feet and started using Unity with a specific Dev team. I know that many, mainly older senior employee, are much stubborn and reluctant to the change thought.

But even without the employee/skills factor. this company had to be ready to let go what was probably $millions in investment over many years in tooling/code base shared with many project to start anew.   





I get that ease of access means a lot of indies and lower budget projects use it, but with UE4 for example I can point to Hellblade or Gears 5 as examples of great graphics using the engine, but even the most impressive Unity games like Recore aren't even close to the same league.



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curl-6 said:

I get that ease of access means a lot of indies and lower budget projects use it, but with UE4 for example I can point to Hellblade or Gears 5 as examples of great graphics using the engine, but even the most impressive Unity games like Recore aren't even close to the same league.

Of course not. Unity is a middleware engine. However Unreal can have some ugly games like Caligula Effect Overdose. Nice art design but man that game is ugly on a technical level when you play it.



Bite my shiny metal cockpit!

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Leynos said:
curl-6 said:

I get that ease of access means a lot of indies and lower budget projects use it, but with UE4 for example I can point to Hellblade or Gears 5 as examples of great graphics using the engine, but even the most impressive Unity games like Recore aren't even close to the same league.

Of course not. Unity is a middleware engine. However Unreal can have some ugly games like Caligula Effect Overdose. Nice art design but man that game is ugly on a technical level when you play it.

You cna make ugly graphics on any engine if you're bad enough at art/tech. The difference is that aside from offline renders, it almost seems like great graphics in-game can't be achieved on Unity.



Bet with Liquidlaser: I say PS5 and Xbox Series will sell more than 56 million combined by the end of 2023.

curl-6 said:
Leynos said:

Of course not. Unity is a middleware engine. However Unreal can have some ugly games like Caligula Effect Overdose. Nice art design but man that game is ugly on a technical level when you play it.

You cna make ugly graphics on any engine if you're bad enough at art/tech. The difference is that aside from offline renders, it almost seems like great graphics in-game can't be achieved on Unity.

Unity games can look good but not AAA level no as again it's middleware. It was never meant to be on UE's level. Otherwise it would defeat it's purpose.



Bite my shiny metal cockpit!

There have been a few developers that have made pretty good use of it for 3D graphics:

Layers of Fear

Edge of Eternity

Wasteland 3

But ultimately it's simply better for 2D games, especially those which are using hand drawn art like Cuphead and Ori.



shikamaru317 said:

There have been a few developers that have made pretty good use of it for 3D graphics:

Layers of Fear

Edge of Eternity

Wasteland 3

But ultimately it's simply better for 2D games, especially those which are using hand drawn art like Cuphead and Ori.

I hadn't seen these ones yet, thanks.



Bet with Liquidlaser: I say PS5 and Xbox Series will sell more than 56 million combined by the end of 2023.

Bofferbrauer2 said:

Just to showcase what games are possible with Unity, Wikipedia has a nice little list of games made with the engine:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unity_games

This also includes some AA/AAA games, like ARMA, Homeworld or official NASCAR games.

I'm pretty sure ARMA Tactics isn't significant in any way... But yeah, there definitely are some nice games there.