By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming Discussion - apple/google vs epic mobile warfare where is nikkom when you need him

Nautilus said:
Pyro as Bill said:
Does EGS take a cut of DLC?

Yes they do, as every other platform. Their 10% or 15% cut(whatever it is) applies to everything sold on their platform.

Please do note that between steam and egs if you buy rainbow six siege ubisoft gets more money from the egs sale



 "I think people should define the word crap" - Kirby007

Join the Prediction League http://www.vgchartz.com/predictions

Instead of seeking to convince others, we can be open to changing our own minds, and seek out information that contradicts our own steadfast point of view. Maybe it’ll turn out that those who disagree with you actually have a solid grasp of the facts. There’s a slight possibility that, after all, you’re the one who’s wrong.

Around the Network
Nautilus said:
DonFerrari said:

Cars have 1 or 2 year warranty. And that dosen't cover everything. Once that expires, your own your own. You can have a insurance for your car, but you pay a monthly fee for it, not much different than a platform cut.You don't have a leg to stand on this example, I'm sorry.

There are cars that have 5 or even 7 years of warranty.

Apple doesn`t even go over 1 year, and they do very lousy practices like the battery one. You pay an insurance for theft or accident, how does apple cover that for you?

And it's Apple business, they can do whatever they want with it. You own the device, not it's services. If you want it's services, you not to abide by it's rules. This is something you know, or should know, going into it. It's not unfair, it's their property and their rules. They are not making anyone hostage.

Nope it isn`t their property, you paid for the HW and with that the SW inside, it is yours to do what you wish. The fact that they do all they can to prevent it show they are the scums. If you want the service of anyone that Apple didn`t agreed (and got a cut) on your device paid with your money you can`t. That again would be like a car company saying if you don`t fuel on their gas station you can`t ask for warranty (they try that with the preventive maintenance during warranty period, that have been made null and void at least in Brazil, as long as you can prove you done the preventive maintenance they can`t say you don`t have a right for the warranty, and it covers all defects, just don`t cover consumables.

Apple dosen't need to do what it does, but it wants to do it because it work. It's not a matter of right or wrong. It's their freedom to choose how they run their business. It owuld be the same to say that you don't "allow" me to run my shop the way I want it. As long as I am not breaking any law, it's my shop and I do what I want with it, even if it means bankrupting it, if that's what I want.

Of course it is a matter of right or wrong, your are saying they are right in doing it, because no one here said they can`t (because well they are doing it). Monopolistic behavior is a breach of law, several ToS are against law, same as EuLAs, reason why they are overruled all the time.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

kirby007 said:
Nautilus said:

Yes they do, as every other platform. Their 10% or 15% cut(whatever it is) applies to everything sold on their platform.

Please do note that between steam and egs if you buy rainbow six siege ubisoft gets more money from the egs sale

Well, yes. That's called competition. EGS is doing that to gain popularity with developers, not as a favor for them.



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1

Nautilus said:
kirby007 said:

Please do note that between steam and egs if you buy rainbow six siege ubisoft gets more money from the egs sale

Well, yes. That's called competition. EGS is doing that to gain popularity with developers, not as a favor for them.

You make it sound like a bad thing that a dev gets more money



 "I think people should define the word crap" - Kirby007

Join the Prediction League http://www.vgchartz.com/predictions

Instead of seeking to convince others, we can be open to changing our own minds, and seek out information that contradicts our own steadfast point of view. Maybe it’ll turn out that those who disagree with you actually have a solid grasp of the facts. There’s a slight possibility that, after all, you’re the one who’s wrong.

DonFerrari said:
Nautilus said:

Cars have 1 or 2 year warranty. And that dosen't cover everything. Once that expires, your own your own. You can have a insurance for your car, but you pay a monthly fee for it, not much different than a platform cut.You don't have a leg to stand on this example, I'm sorry.

There are cars that have 5 or even 7 years of warranty.

Apple doesn`t even go over 1 year, and they do very lousy practices like the battery one. You pay an insurance for theft or accident, how does apple cover that for you?

And it's Apple business, they can do whatever they want with it. You own the device, not it's services. If you want it's services, you not to abide by it's rules. This is something you know, or should know, going into it. It's not unfair, it's their property and their rules. They are not making anyone hostage.

Nope it isn`t their property, you paid for the HW and with that the SW inside, it is yours to do what you wish. The fact that they do all they can to prevent it show they are the scums. If you want the service of anyone that Apple didn`t agreed (and got a cut) on your device paid with your money you can`t. That again would be like a car company saying if you don`t fuel on their gas station you can`t ask for warranty (they try that with the preventive maintenance during warranty period, that have been made null and void at least in Brazil, as long as you can prove you done the preventive maintenance they can`t say you don`t have a right for the warranty, and it covers all defects, just don`t cover consumables.

Apple dosen't need to do what it does, but it wants to do it because it work. It's not a matter of right or wrong. It's their freedom to choose how they run their business. It owuld be the same to say that you don't "allow" me to run my shop the way I want it. As long as I am not breaking any law, it's my shop and I do what I want with it, even if it means bankrupting it, if that's what I want.

Of course it is a matter of right or wrong, your are saying they are right in doing it, because no one here said they can`t (because well they are doing it). Monopolistic behavior is a breach of law, several ToS are against law, same as EuLAs, reason why they are overruled all the time.

Sure, and there are car manufacturers that give 6 months warranty. The "warranty" goes into the final price.Those cars with 5 or 7 years warranty is those that wayyyyyy over many users salary here. No business is here to lose money.Apple dosen't cover anything for me, and it shouldn't. They are not my parents or babysitters. If I want a warranty, i'll pay for one, not have one charged upfront for me in the cost of the cellphone. Companies aren't charities, for gods sake.

"Nope it isn`t their property" What? You paid for the phone, you can do whatever the hell you want with it.With the physical product. But the service you "rent" it. You sign a contract for godness sake. You guys are so entitled. If you don't agree with their services, go buy a phone from a different company. That's the beauty of competition. Your example is horrible once again. The difference betwenn that example and a service is that you are responsible for the car function and well being, while the Operating System is on Apple's side. It's apples and oranges.I mean, you can't even compare them. It's two different m,arkets, with different rules, different enviroments.

They aren't a monopoly, so there is no breach of law. As someone said here, when you include every single mobile platform, Apple makes for less than 25% of the market share. Don, I would love to pay cheaper for things, or even for free as you all seem to be dreaming about(if Apple didn't charge that 30%), but not only that won't be happening ever, but it's also not fair. Apple is a company, and as a company it wants money. And yes, the most money it can get away with. But more than that, keeping a platform like IOS running and running so well costs alot of money.

Things like these always reming me how much of a headache it is to sell stuff to the final customer. They always think they are entitled to every possible right imaginable.



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1

Around the Network
kirby007 said:
Nautilus said:

Well, yes. That's called competition. EGS is doing that to gain popularity with developers, not as a favor for them.

You make it sound like a bad thing that a dev gets more money

You make it sound like it's a bad thing the platform holder, that develops the platform the devs makes money on, get any money at all.

I'm just not gullible, that's all.



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1

Nautilus said:
DonFerrari said:

Sure, and there are car manufacturers that give 6 months warranty. The "warranty" goes into the final price.Those cars with 5 or 7 years warranty is those that wayyyyyy over many users salary here. No business is here to lose money.Apple dosen't cover anything for me, and it shouldn't. They are not my parents or babysitters. If I want a warranty, i'll pay for one, not have one charged upfront for me in the cost of the cellphone. Companies aren't charities, for gods sake.

Well I don`t know any car manufacturer that gives 6 months warranty. Sure warranty goes into the price, together with the quality of the product. What does that have to do with anything discussed? Apple gives 1 year of warranty? And does the average apple user then uses the system for 7 years with Apple being responsible for everything? Nope. You can`t have your cake and eat, you use cases that are totally off warranty like theft and accident to claim I need to purchase a insurrence, but then cover up for Apple saying they don`t need to give you warranty.

"Nope it isn`t their property" What? You paid for the phone, you can do whatever the hell you want with it.With the physical product. But the service you "rent" it. You sign a contract for godness sake. You guys are so entitled. If you don't agree with their services, go buy a phone from a different company. That's the beauty of competition. Your example is horrible once again. The difference betwenn that example and a service is that you are responsible for the car function and well being, while the Operating System is on Apple's side. It's apples and oranges.I mean, you can't even compare them. It's two different m,arkets, with different rules, different enviroments.

I already buy from another company, and tell me can anyone buy an Apple phone without "renting" their service? In Brazilian customer law that is a married sale, and is against law. Nope the standard functioning of the car is the manufacturers responsibility, user is expected to not abuse it, do preventive maintenance (as instructed on the manual), fuel and change oil (like you also charge your phone), if the car doesn`t work as intended the car company is sued. Sure it is different markets, still don`t justify Apple practices.

They aren't a monopoly, so there is no breach of law. As someone said here, when you include every single mobile platform, Apple makes for less than 25% of the market share. Don, I would love to pay cheaper for things, or even for free as you all seem to be dreaming about(if Apple didn't charge that 30%), but not only that won't be happening ever, but it's also not fair. Apple is a company, and as a company it wants money. And yes, the most money it can get away with. But more than that, keeping a platform like IOS running and running so well costs alot of money.

Android works just as well, and for me and many a lot better, and they don`t need those same rules. So yes you are just apologizing for their savage practices. When a single company holds 25% of a market that have let`s say 20 companies it really have a lot of marketshare and may apply MONOPOLISTIC practices, it doesn`t mean it have a monopoly it means it use practices that are from this type of market or to achieve this type of market.

Things like these always reming me how much of a headache it is to sell stuff to the final customer. They always think they are entitled to every possible right imaginable.

And you seem to want poor trilionary Apple to have more rights and abuse than is needed or acceptable. How many products do you know that you buy and can`t use without authorization from whoever made it? Because without the OS that comes with the device you just own 200gr of metals and plastic that would be worth cents on weight, so nope you don`t buy just that. Would you say that when you buy a digital game you don`t own anything since there is nothing physical to hold so that dev or publisher don`t own you anything?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Apple's, I have a small issue with, because it's a closed OS and I disagree with that. If you could still obtain the game otherwise, fair enough. But the App Store is the only place to get apps.

Google, I fully agree with. You can still download and play Fortnite all you want on Android - just not through the Play Store. If you want to ship your app through their distribution method, you play by their rules.

That said, a 30% cut is awfully steep...



 SW-5120-1900-6153

Nautilus said:
DonFerrari said:
That is an interesting battle. For me it is valid that Apple and Google receive comission for the app sold, but inside the purchases made inside the app shouldn`t keep giving revenue to them. And if the result of this is Playstation having to allow other stores inside it or even more broad, that anyone can release their game or app and Sony can`t block it, so be it.

When most mobile games are free to play, with it's income being based entirely on microtransactions, what you are proposing is the same as having no cut.

And when you allow other stores to be open on the platform you have built from the ground up and pay a team of a hundred+ engineers to keep updating and improving, not to mention the marketing you have to do to promote said platform, with no cut or a small one(that dosen't really justify the investment), who is going to built said platform in the first place? It is just going to discorage people from making awesome platforms that run well.

Also, what some of us are forgetting here, is that these MT's are still using the store network, which doesn't run on hopes and dreams for free either, so I can absolutely understand why they also want a cut per MT made. Simply popping up on the store and getting a cut per download is practically limited, while the MT's are far more vast in number made. 

Also your second point basically points to what Epic has done with their Storefront, and we all know how well that turned out...lol (For real though, it's shit and so very bare bones and semi functional).



Step right up come on in, feel the buzz in your veins, I'm like an chemical electrical right into your brain and I'm the one who killed the Radio, soon you'll all see

So pay up motherfuckers you belong to "V"

DonFerrari said:
Nautilus said:

Sure, and there are car manufacturers that give 6 months warranty. The "warranty" goes into the final price.Those cars with 5 or 7 years warranty is those that wayyyyyy over many users salary here. No business is here to lose money.Apple dosen't cover anything for me, and it shouldn't. They are not my parents or babysitters. If I want a warranty, i'll pay for one, not have one charged upfront for me in the cost of the cellphone. Companies aren't charities, for gods sake.

Well I don`t know any car manufacturer that gives 6 months warranty. Sure warranty goes into the price, together with the quality of the product. What does that have to do with anything discussed? Apple gives 1 year of warranty? And does the average apple user then uses the system for 7 years with Apple being responsible for everything? Nope. You can`t have your cake and eat, you use cases that are totally off warranty like theft and accident to claim I need to purchase a insurrence, but then cover up for Apple saying they don`t need to give you warranty.

"Nope it isn`t their property" What? You paid for the phone, you can do whatever the hell you want with it.With the physical product. But the service you "rent" it. You sign a contract for godness sake. You guys are so entitled. If you don't agree with their services, go buy a phone from a different company. That's the beauty of competition. Your example is horrible once again. The difference betwenn that example and a service is that you are responsible for the car function and well being, while the Operating System is on Apple's side. It's apples and oranges.I mean, you can't even compare them. It's two different m,arkets, with different rules, different enviroments.

I already buy from another company, and tell me can anyone buy an Apple phone without "renting" their service? In Brazilian customer law that is a married sale, and is against law. Nope the standard functioning of the car is the manufacturers responsibility, user is expected to not abuse it, do preventive maintenance (as instructed on the manual), fuel and change oil (like you also charge your phone), if the car doesn`t work as intended the car company is sued. Sure it is different markets, still don`t justify Apple practices.

They aren't a monopoly, so there is no breach of law. As someone said here, when you include every single mobile platform, Apple makes for less than 25% of the market share. Don, I would love to pay cheaper for things, or even for free as you all seem to be dreaming about(if Apple didn't charge that 30%), but not only that won't be happening ever, but it's also not fair. Apple is a company, and as a company it wants money. And yes, the most money it can get away with. But more than that, keeping a platform like IOS running and running so well costs alot of money.

Android works just as well, and for me and many a lot better, and they don`t need those same rules. So yes you are just apologizing for their savage practices. When a single company holds 25% of a market that have let`s say 20 companies it really have a lot of marketshare and may apply MONOPOLISTIC practices, it doesn`t mean it have a monopoly it means it use practices that are from this type of market or to achieve this type of market.

Things like these always reming me how much of a headache it is to sell stuff to the final customer. They always think they are entitled to every possible right imaginable.

And you seem to want poor trilionary Apple to have more rights and abuse than is needed or acceptable. How many products do you know that you buy and can`t use without authorization from whoever made it? Because without the OS that comes with the device you just own 200gr of metals and plastic that would be worth cents on weight, so nope you don`t buy just that. Would you say that when you buy a digital game you don`t own anything since there is nothing physical to hold so that dev or publisher don`t own you anything?

What I'm saying is that Apple dosen't own you anything. Giving warranty or not is up to the manufacturer, be it of cars or phones. We would be in a dictatorship if companies were forced to give things like that, assuming they are not giving you a faulty product. That's where competition comes in, and that's why products and services gets better/cheaper. You should be responsible for your own actions be it dropping your phone and it breaking, and yes, risking not paying for assurance and getting your phone stolen.

If it was against the law, Apple wouldn't be able to sell products there, dear Don. But since I know as a fact that Apple can indeed sell phones there, your either lying or just plain mistaken.Well yes, if the car is faulty from the manufacturing, of course the manufacturer is responsible. But that's not what we were discussing was it? It was about charging not the final customer, but rather other companies, to be able to use the syustem that they keep, develop and gives tons of assurances(like stability, fraud assurance, etc).For a car the final customer is responsible for it, assuming it isn't faulty. For platforms(the OS) the manufacturer itself is responsible for it. You may not like it, but that's how it works

You don't really know what monopoly means, do you? Well, I think that closes that discussion.

Regarding the other part: Yeah, Google and some other companies do different. So what? Apple chooses to do different, and it works. It's not wether you like it or not. If it were up to me, I wouldn't want to pay 1 cent. But it isn't about me or you. And Apple is really sucessful, which means that people are largely okay with it.

I don't want poor trilionare Apple to have more rights. I want their current rights respected, just as I want our current rights respected. It's easy to defend something when it's favorable to you, isn't it? But if it were the other way around, it becomes way harder. I'm just being honest to myself.

And yeah, that's why I always try to buy physical, because i don't fully trust what a contract says or in a company with no face. That's why you all need to put your money where your mouth is. Want to support ownership? Buy physical. Or at least don't support Stadia.



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1