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Forums - Gaming Discussion - apple/google vs epic mobile warfare where is nikkom when you need him

DonFerrari said:
RolStoppable said:

How much does Fortnite cost again? $0?

So the "fair" deal is that Apple and Google provide huge platforms for Epic, but Epic is the only company that is supposed to profit from it?

kirby007 said:

the thing is on Android you have multiple stores aside from the google play store while not as big you still have options whereas on ios your fucked.

from a selfishpoint I wouldn't mind seeing uplay/origin/EGS/steam on my console or phone will save me tons of money having to rebuy games

Nautilus said:

When most mobile games are free to play, with it's income being based entirely on microtransactions, what you are proposing is the same as having no cut.

And when you allow other stores to be open on the platform you have built from the ground up and pay a team of a hundred+ engineers to keep updating and improving, not to mention the marketing you have to do to promote said platform, with no cut or a small one(that dosen't really justify the investment), who is going to built said platform in the first place? It is just going to discorage people from making awesome platforms that run well.

When you buy a car the car manufacturers don`t keep getting money from the fuel stations. And they don`t lock you out to a single vendor. There are plenty of paid apps on both stores (sure not the top download) and the free to play games also you don`t need to pay nothing to keep playing forever, and those sales aren`t really fostered by Apple. They don`t actually do anything to help those games be downloaded or then in-app purchase to happen so really they aren`t entitled to a cut. They aren`t entitled to get a cut from every perspective.

But the car manufacturer don't have a constant cost with maintaining a car the costumer paid for 1,2,3 years ago. If your car breaks down, (usually) you pay from your own pocket.If someone runs over a person in the car you sold to them, the car manufacturer is not responsible. If someone turns that into a bomb, the car manufacturer is not responsible, etc.

For a platform holder, you are liable to everything that goes into your platform. If someone posts something malicious, "It's Apple fault for not having a better moderation for such things!". If porn is posted where it wasn't supposed to, the headline on any paper will be " Explicit Porn was seen in Apple store, with nothing been done for hours". Not only that but you pay a team of a hundred+ engineers to keep updating and improving, not to mention the marketing you have to do to promote said platform, like I said before. And engineers are expensive, especially good ones.

Again, there is a discussion to be had if the 30% cut is fair or not, but saying that they are not entitled to a cut, when the IOS is not only something they own, but that they fostered and devloped and spent hundreds of millions of dollars into building what it is today? Honestly, the kind of person that says stuff like these are the ones that have never been owned a bussiness, and dosen't know how hard you need to work to make it work aand how hard it is to make it work.

If you are unhappy about it, just go to other platforms. There are alot of platforms that dosen't have a cut and are successful enough(Android, PC in general).



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1

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Nautilus said:
DonFerrari said:

When you buy a car the car manufacturers don`t keep getting money from the fuel stations. And they don`t lock you out to a single vendor. There are plenty of paid apps on both stores (sure not the top download) and the free to play games also you don`t need to pay nothing to keep playing forever, and those sales aren`t really fostered by Apple. They don`t actually do anything to help those games be downloaded or then in-app purchase to happen so really they aren`t entitled to a cut. They aren`t entitled to get a cut from every perspective.

But the car manufacturer don't have a constant cost with maintaining a car the costumer paid for 1,2,3 years ago. If your car breaks down, (usually) you pay from your own pocket.If someone runs over a person in the car you sold to them, the car manufacturer is not responsible. If someone turns that into a bomb, the car manufacturer is not responsible, etc.

For a platform holder, you are liable to everything that goes into your platform. If someone posts something malicious, "It's Apple fault for not having a better moderation for such things!". If porn is posted where it wasn't supposed to, the headline on any paper will be " Explicit Porn was seen in Apple store, with nothing been done for hours". Not only that but you pay a team of a hundred+ engineers to keep updating and improving, not to mention the marketing you have to do to promote said platform, like I said before. And engineers are expensive, especially good ones.

Again, there is a discussion to be had if the 30% cut is fair or not, but saying that they are not entitled to a cut, when the IOS is not only something they own, but that they fostered and devloped and spent hundreds of millions of dollars into building what it is today? Honestly, the kind of person that says stuff like these are the ones that have never been owned a bussiness, and dosen't know how hard you need to work to make it work aand how hard it is to make it work.

If you are unhappy about it, just go to other platforms. There are alot of platforms that dosen't have a cut and are successful enough(Android, PC in general).

go to another platform is such a weak excuse, missing out on 25-50% of the market is a big deal



 "I think people should define the word crap" - Kirby007

Join the Prediction League http://www.vgchartz.com/predictions

Instead of seeking to convince others, we can be open to changing our own minds, and seek out information that contradicts our own steadfast point of view. Maybe it’ll turn out that those who disagree with you actually have a solid grasp of the facts. There’s a slight possibility that, after all, you’re the one who’s wrong.

Ka-pi96 said:
DonFerrari said:

Epic isn`t vile, Apple abusing their very big marketshare and being sole provider and then asking for additional cut is vile, and you can bet they also ask for a cut from the in-app purchase of apps that you have to pay to buy.

This isn't an "additional" cut. It's the only cut.

And why shouldn't they get a cut? Do you also think people should be able to walk into a supermarket, set up their own independent stall there and start selling things without the supermarket getting anything at all from it?

but the apple store is the ONLY store in the mall



 "I think people should define the word crap" - Kirby007

Join the Prediction League http://www.vgchartz.com/predictions

Instead of seeking to convince others, we can be open to changing our own minds, and seek out information that contradicts our own steadfast point of view. Maybe it’ll turn out that those who disagree with you actually have a solid grasp of the facts. There’s a slight possibility that, after all, you’re the one who’s wrong.

kirby007 said:
Nautilus said:

But the car manufacturer don't have a constant cost with maintaining a car the costumer paid for 1,2,3 years ago. If your car breaks down, (usually) you pay from your own pocket.If someone runs over a person in the car you sold to them, the car manufacturer is not responsible. If someone turns that into a bomb, the car manufacturer is not responsible, etc.

For a platform holder, you are liable to everything that goes into your platform. If someone posts something malicious, "It's Apple fault for not having a better moderation for such things!". If porn is posted where it wasn't supposed to, the headline on any paper will be " Explicit Porn was seen in Apple store, with nothing been done for hours". Not only that but you pay a team of a hundred+ engineers to keep updating and improving, not to mention the marketing you have to do to promote said platform, like I said before. And engineers are expensive, especially good ones.

Again, there is a discussion to be had if the 30% cut is fair or not, but saying that they are not entitled to a cut, when the IOS is not only something they own, but that they fostered and devloped and spent hundreds of millions of dollars into building what it is today? Honestly, the kind of person that says stuff like these are the ones that have never been owned a bussiness, and dosen't know how hard you need to work to make it work aand how hard it is to make it work.

If you are unhappy about it, just go to other platforms. There are alot of platforms that dosen't have a cut and are successful enough(Android, PC in general).

go to another platform is such a weak excuse, missing out on 25-50% of the market is a big deal

It may be an unrealistic proposition, but if you don't want to paay the 30% cut, that's your only option.

That or build your own platform. But don't go complaining about it like a kid, like Epic is doing. Spitting on someone elses face, after everything he went through to get it's business running, just because you don't agree with the practices of their business, which is not essencial for humanity survival, is just sad and pathetic in my opinion.



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1

Ka-pi96 said:
kirby007 said:

but the apple store is the ONLY store in the mall

There are other malls though.

its still getting you locked out



 "I think people should define the word crap" - Kirby007

Join the Prediction League http://www.vgchartz.com/predictions

Instead of seeking to convince others, we can be open to changing our own minds, and seek out information that contradicts our own steadfast point of view. Maybe it’ll turn out that those who disagree with you actually have a solid grasp of the facts. There’s a slight possibility that, after all, you’re the one who’s wrong.

Around the Network
Nautilus said:
kirby007 said:

go to another platform is such a weak excuse, missing out on 25-50% of the market is a big deal

It may be an unrealistic proposition, but if you don't want to paay the 30% cut, that's your only option.

That or build your own platform. But don't go complaining about it like a kid, like Epic is doing. Spitting on someone elses face, after everything he went through to get it's business running, just because you don't agree with the practices of their business, which is not essencial for humanity survival, is just sad and pathetic in my opinion.

i agree with your view on epics behaviour but the point they make is solid gold



 "I think people should define the word crap" - Kirby007

Join the Prediction League http://www.vgchartz.com/predictions

Instead of seeking to convince others, we can be open to changing our own minds, and seek out information that contradicts our own steadfast point of view. Maybe it’ll turn out that those who disagree with you actually have a solid grasp of the facts. There’s a slight possibility that, after all, you’re the one who’s wrong.

Nautilus said:
DonFerrari said:

When you buy a car the car manufacturers don`t keep getting money from the fuel stations. And they don`t lock you out to a single vendor. There are plenty of paid apps on both stores (sure not the top download) and the free to play games also you don`t need to pay nothing to keep playing forever, and those sales aren`t really fostered by Apple. They don`t actually do anything to help those games be downloaded or then in-app purchase to happen so really they aren`t entitled to a cut. They aren`t entitled to get a cut from every perspective.

But the car manufacturer don't have a constant cost with maintaining a car the costumer paid for 1,2,3 years ago. If your car breaks down, (usually) you pay from your own pocket.If someone runs over a person in the car you sold to them, the car manufacturer is not responsible. If someone turns that into a bomb, the car manufacturer is not responsible, etc.

Not right. Car manufacturers have recurrent cost for warranty and maintenance, safety and modifications. If you car causes accident, is easy to steal, etc the manufacturer can and usually is subject to a civil action.

For a platform holder, you are liable to everything that goes into your platform. If someone posts something malicious, "It's Apple fault for not having a better moderation for such things!". If porn is posted where it wasn't supposed to, the headline on any paper will be " Explicit Porn was seen in Apple store, with nothing been done for hours". Not only that but you pay a team of a hundred+ engineers to keep updating and improving, not to mention the marketing you have to do to promote said platform, like I said before. And engineers are expensive, especially good ones.

And any store in the world have collaborative responsibility for what is sold there even if they only get a cut on the first purchase.

Again, there is a discussion to be had if the 30% cut is fair or not, but saying that they are not entitled to a cut, when the IOS is not only something they own, but that they fostered and devloped and spent hundreds of millions of dollars into building what it is today? Honestly, the kind of person that says stuff like these are the ones that have never been owned a bussiness, and dosen't know how hard you need to work to make it work aand how hard it is to make it work.

You own the device and paid for it, Apple keep it a hostage in a way that you can only install if they say so. If apple was having any hardship to keep profitable we could discuss this, but that really isn`t the way.

If you are unhappy about it, just go to other platforms. There are alot of platforms that dosen't have a cut and are successful enough(Android, PC in general).

I did, I don`t have an iPhone anymore, they overcharge for the HW and over control the SW. And you just proved yourself wrong with your last paragraph, if plenty of platforms can make a profit without doing what Apple is doing it shows Apple doesn`t need to do it.

Ka-pi96 said:
DonFerrari said:

Epic isn`t vile, Apple abusing their very big marketshare and being sole provider and then asking for additional cut is vile, and you can bet they also ask for a cut from the in-app purchase of apps that you have to pay to buy.

This isn't an "additional" cut. It's the only cut.

And why shouldn't they get a cut? Do you also think people should be able to walk into a supermarket, set up their own independent stall there and start selling things without the supermarket getting anything at all from it?

So far as I know people that sell inside supermarket or mall pay a rent or similar, and if I sell a subscription plan or anything they won`t get recurrent revenue from that.

RolStoppable said:
DonFerrari said:

It also cost zero on all other platforms and you can play for your whole life without giving them a dime. I know the smartphone games I played I never paid a cent, if Epic complained I don`t give they money that is their problem.

Games that charge for you to buy it but still have mtx can should then be allowed?

And in app-ads, should the hw provider also get a cut of that revenue?

Your personal play and purchase habits have no relevance here.

Both Apple and Google take cuts from upfront payments (i.e. games that are not free to download), in-app purchases and in-app ad revenue. They collect royalty fees on everything that has gone through their stores.

I know. And yes I imagine they take a cut from everything they can, which makes it worse and not better.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Let Fortnite die



Bite my shiny metal cockpit!

Leynos said:
Let Fortnite die

while playing fall guys eh?



 "I think people should define the word crap" - Kirby007

Join the Prediction League http://www.vgchartz.com/predictions

Instead of seeking to convince others, we can be open to changing our own minds, and seek out information that contradicts our own steadfast point of view. Maybe it’ll turn out that those who disagree with you actually have a solid grasp of the facts. There’s a slight possibility that, after all, you’re the one who’s wrong.

kirby007 said:
Nautilus said:

It may be an unrealistic proposition, but if you don't want to paay the 30% cut, that's your only option.

That or build your own platform. But don't go complaining about it like a kid, like Epic is doing. Spitting on someone elses face, after everything he went through to get it's business running, just because you don't agree with the practices of their business, which is not essencial for humanity survival, is just sad and pathetic in my opinion.

i agree with your view on epics behaviour but the point they make is solid gold

That they should get what they want, when they want on other people private propriety?



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1