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Forums - Gaming Discussion - apple/google vs epic mobile warfare where is nikkom when you need him

Jumpin said:
kirby007 said:

WRONG if we were to translate your example with what apple does means there is no competition for mcdo, no burgerking/wendies etc :)

It's correct, Burger KING, Wendy's, King's Fatty Chicken, Pizza Hunt, Taco Bull, Star Bucks all can't compete within Mcdonalds.

You can order Burger King in McDonalds using the Just Eat app. It's hit or miss whether they let you eat inside and don't expect McD's staff to accept the delivery for you.



Nov 2016 - NES outsells PS1 (JP)

Don't Play Stationary 4 ever. Switch!

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Intrinsic said:
DonFerrari said:

I hope we can get to a point where the other companies don't need to pay royalties to Sony to launch the game on console, but also get no access to the devkits and whatnot. Just because Sony is thriving with themselves fully controling their system (but also enjoy putting their app on ios, android and some games on PC) doesn't mean it is good or worse fair. Sony isn't mandated to sell HW for a loss, they just do because that is what bring more profit to them under current model.

Realistically, how would that work? 

This is a classic case of "be careful when you chase out my demons you may chase out the angels too".

Publishers make games for platforms that they believe would make them the most amount of money. The cheapest and most user-friendly gaming platform to get into are consoles. And someone has to make those consoles. And even if we are looking at a post console future, someone has to make and maintain the servers that host the games people stream.

These publishers and in turn their games wouldn't have a platform to thrive on or exist if someone doesn't make said platform. 

The alternative is for all games to be based on Linux (and even that is made by someone) as their only supported platform and just have anyone interested in gaming to build a PC or get a Linux based laptop. But that kinda decentralization would be 1000 times more complicated and disjointed than anything we have today.

Because Windows-based PC gaming isn't the answer. Trust me, if MS ever finds themselves in a situation where the only gaming platform out there is the PC, people would be shocked how much worse than apple MS can be.

Do you really think if publishers weren't demanded to pay royalties and be restricted by platform holders they wouldn't release their games there? Just as with PC or Android, they should be allowed to have their own stores if they want or release without vetoing by platform holder, that said by they not choosing to do so they wouldn`t have access to the devkits, code, etc. That basically already takes care of most of it. Why do you think the publishers even when having PC without any of this go and launch on consoles? Why do they release in Google Store if they can also make their own store or release to direct download to search on the web? Because that generates more money. You don`t need dictatorship powers to flourish the platform.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:

Do you really think if publishers weren't demanded to pay royalties and be restricted by platform holders they wouldn't release their games there? Just as with PC or Android, they should be allowed to have their own stores if they want or release without vetoing by platform holder, that said by they not choosing to do so they wouldn`t have access to the devkits, code, etc. That basically already takes care of most of it. Why do you think the publishers even when having PC without any of this go and launch on consoles? Why do they release in Google Store if they can also make their own store or release to direct download to search on the web? Because that generates more money. You don`t need dictatorship powers to flourish the platform.

I really don't get this rationale.

Who are these dictators?

OK... help me understand this.

Sony makes a console. Markets it and sells it to as many people they can. Then on this console, they create a digital store. This is like making a product and then making a store within the product where content can be sold.

Now, sony gets royalties from anyone building games for their console. That was the whole point of them making the console to begin with. To create a platform for developers to build their games and sell it to a very wide audience. It's like using the music from an artist in the movie you are making, you pay royalties to that artist.

But sony as I mentioned earlier, also has a store, where like any store, they get a cut from selling games on it. But because this is a closed platform, every game sold via the store is charged a flat rate, 30%. This includes royalties and the store cut. 

So in this case, is sony being a dictator? And if they are, what is the alternative, have you release your game on their platform, using their SDK, and giving your game to their audience, and then charging their audience for content tied to your "free" game through some separate external store and they, in turn, get nothing? How is that fair?

But you know what is really crazy about this? Epic, also has a store. They also charge publishers releasing content on said store 30% or whatever for the games sold via their store. But yet, they don't want to pay other stores/platforms for content they sell to the audiences to those platforms? You really don't see what's wrong with this picture?

And it's not about what anyone should be allowed to do or not do. It's about standards. If I have platform, I want to guarantee the experience of all my users on that platform. I do not want my audience subscribing to 20 different publishers and going to 20 different stores to acquire content for their games only platform. While to ou that may seem good on paper, imagine a world where every single publisher has its own store for its own content. Can you even start to imagine how complicated that become to the end-user? 

People shout and champion the whole free and fair rhetoric all the time, but its usually just them saying everyone should be allowed to do whatever they want. But I believe, allowing everyone to do whatever they want is freedom, and it isn't fair. As the saying goes, one man's liberties end where another man begins. So this is simple, if epic does not want to abide by the rules set by any specific platform holder, then they would not support said, platform holder. If them doing so hurts the platform older more than it hurts them, then the platform holder will change its rules. 

Last edited by Intrinsic - on 16 August 2020

Ka-pi96 said:

Nintendo.

They're a publisher/developer first and foremost and they don't have to pay royalties or digital store fees. Any publisher is allowed to have their own store, just like Nintendo do, but they don't. Releasing on PS/Xbox/Steam etc. and paying a cut to them can't be that bad then can it?

Exactly... and thats why I don't get what this is about.

If Epic wants to release their game on the PC, which so far is being treated as an open platform. Then they can and they can have their own store.

But if they want their game to be on another platform, then they ought to abide by the rules of said platform. And if those rules doesn't work for them, then shun the platform. Simple as that.

We have open platforms Windows, Linux, Mac OS. We have semi-open platforms, Android and Linux and we have closed platforms. Google Play, iOS, Xbox, Playstation. All have their advantages and disadvantages.



Pyro as Bill said:
Jumpin said:

It's correct, Burger KING, Wendy's, King's Fatty Chicken, Pizza Hunt, Taco Bull, Star Bucks all can't compete within Mcdonalds.

You can order Burger King in McDonalds using the Just Eat app. It's hit or miss whether they let you eat inside and don't expect McD's staff to accept the delivery for you.

That argument is the same as “You can play browser/streaming games” on the App Store. It has nothing to do with something sold in McDonald’s.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

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Jumpin said:
Pyro as Bill said:

You can order Burger King in McDonalds using the Just Eat app. It's hit or miss whether they let you eat inside and don't expect McD's staff to accept the delivery for you.

That argument is the same as “You can play browser/streaming games” on the App Store. It has nothing to do with something sold in McDonald’s.

Or 'you can buy v-bucks via the Safari browser and spend them in-app without Apple taking a cut' so wtf are Epic complaining about?

It's a publicity stunt to get people to use their own store. They're maxed out on growth thanks to the ecosystem Apple/Google created for Fortnite (v sideloading) and are now trying to eke out every last dime they can.



Nov 2016 - NES outsells PS1 (JP)

Don't Play Stationary 4 ever. Switch!