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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Does the industry consider the mid-gen upgrades (PS4 Pro and X1X) successful?

 

Does the industry see the concept of mid-gen upgrades as a good one?

I think so 8 36.36%
 
Don't think so 8 36.36%
 
I have no idea 6 27.27%
 
Total:22
VAMatt said:
Considering how little PS and XB have talked about the sales of their premium consoles, I'm thinking they must not view them as successful. At least, not big successes. If they though they were, they'd certainly proclaim it loudly to us.

On a personal level, I liked the idea when we first heard about it, and even through the launch of the systems. But, in hindsight, I think I'd prefer that the generations be shorter (maybe 6 years rather than 7) than we get a small bump in the middle and have to wait 7-8 years for the new generation to start. With that said, I think I'll be starting the new generation with an XB (I have two more years on my GP subscription, so I think XB makes more sense for my first purchase), so I'll be watching closely to see whether it makes sense to wait for an upgraded PS5. If it doesn't look like one is coming, I'll probably buy a regular PS5 within 2 years of launch.

Now that I think about it, the fact that I'm sitting an waiting on possible future information, rather than buying a PS5 sooner, is probably a big negative for mid-gen upgrades from a business point of view.

They talked on the first year or 2, and after that we got some snippets of Japan and NPD info, for all we know the midgen are at least 20% of the total sold for those platforms, that seem relevant hw sales.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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They did literally no damage, so, yes.



- "If you have the heart of a true winner, you can always get more pissed off than some other asshole."

Sure.  But, selling a mid gen upgrade machine is of no value unless it 1) brings new people into the ecosystem, or 2) gets the people that owned the original version of the system to buy more software.  Basically, selling the systems does nothing good unless they drive additional software sales.  So, if XBX sells 10m units to people that already own XB1 and they continue buying three games per year, MS accomplished nothing.  If Sony  sells 10m PS4 Pro units to people that didn't own a regular PS4, and those people go on to buy some software, then Sony gets some benefit.  

We don't have enough information (at least, I don't) to know how those possible scenarios played out.  



VAMatt said:

Sure.  But, selling a mid gen upgrade machine is of no value unless it 1) brings new people into the ecosystem, or 2) gets the people that owned the original version of the system to buy more software.  Basically, selling the systems does nothing good unless they drive additional software sales.  So, if XBX sells 10m units to people that already own XB1 and they continue buying three games per year, MS accomplished nothing.  If Sony  sells 10m PS4 Pro units to people that didn't own a regular PS4, and those people go on to buy some software, then Sony gets some benefit.  

We don't have enough information (at least, I don't) to know how those possible scenarios played out.  

Both midgen were sold for profit, so it can't be considered failures at all.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Firstly, we have the console manufacturers. Their consoles are first and foremost about playing PC games on console, so an imminent danger is that gamers interested in those games move to the PC about halfway through a generation, because the specs of consoles are locked whereas PC hardware is modular and can be upgraded whenever a gamer sees fit. Sony said as much themself:

https://gamerant.com/ps4-pro-pc-sony-613/

So one fundamental idea of the mid-gen upgrades is to keep gamers in the ecosystem to have them keep buying games and paying for subscriptions; sales that would otherwise be lost. But a mid-gen upgrade can also be an incentive for new customers who didn't own the original model. Either way, it helps to prolong a generation, even if it's only for about one additional year that can be squeezed out.

Secondly, we have the big third party publishers. While it's more work for developers to have more console configurations, the publishers are fine with mid-gen upgrades because they prefer the closed ecosystems of consoles in comparison to the open PC. Whatever helps to get more money from gamers, hence why PC versions of their games are commonly not given the same care as the console versions, because there's more control on consoles.

The bottom line is that the PS4 Pro and Xbox One X weren't real success stories, but they weren't failures either. They sit inbetween as revisions that were worth making because they did at least a sufficient job for their respective manufacturer. As such, you can expect Sony and Microsoft to release mid-gen upgrades for the PS5 and XSX as well.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

A Biased Review Reloaded / Open Your Eyes / Switch Shipments

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VAMatt said:
Considering how little PS and XB have talked about the sales of their premium consoles, I'm thinking they must not view them as successful. At least, not big successes. If they though they were, they'd certainly proclaim it loudly to us.

On a personal level, I liked the idea when we first heard about it, and even through the launch of the systems. But, in hindsight, I think I'd prefer that the generations be shorter (maybe 6 years rather than 7) than we get a small bump in the middle and have to wait 7-8 years for the new generation to start. With that said, I think I'll be starting the new generation with an XB (I have two more years on my GP subscription, so I think XB makes more sense for my first purchase), so I'll be watching closely to see whether it makes sense to wait for an upgraded PS5. If it doesn't look like one is coming, I'll probably buy a regular PS5 within 2 years of launch.

Now that I think about it, the fact that I'm sitting an waiting on possible future information, rather than buying a PS5 sooner, is probably a big negative for mid-gen upgrades from a business point of view.

I'd like to get back to 5-6 years for the generation gap between a platform and its successor as well. That would all but eliminate the incentive for a mid-gen upgrade. 

It'd be nice to get PS6 and the fifth Xbox in 2025 or 2026 instead of 2027. I know Nintendo is unlikely to do this, but I wouldn't mind Switch 2 in 2022. At the very least I don't want to wait until 2024.



Lifetime Sales Predictions 

Switch: 144 million (was 73, then 96, then 113 million, then 125 million)

PS5: 105 million Xbox Series S/X: 60 million

PS4: 120 mil (was 100 then 130 million, then 122 million) Xbox One: 51 mil (was 50 then 55 mil)

3DS: 75.5 mil (was 73, then 77 million)

"Let go your earthly tether, enter the void, empty and become wind." - Guru Laghima

It look like we're starting this next generation with multiple options from the start (or close to it). I'm not sure what that means for mid-gen upgrades, but I would think that it makes then more likely. If you already have two systems to develop for, what's one more?



If I had to guess, I would say no, the industry doesn't view them as a success but maybe not a failure either. I own both PS4 Pro and Xbox One X and can't say the upgrade was worth the asking price of each system but then again, both systems got me to upgrade my tv to a 4k HDR one so maybe that was one of Sony's and MS's goals (to push 4KTV's for next-gen consoles).



NobleTeam360 said:
If I had to guess, I would say no, the industry doesn't view them as a success but maybe not a failure either. I own both PS4 Pro and Xbox One X and can't say the upgrade was worth the asking price of each system but then again, both systems got me to upgrade my tv to a 4k HDR one so maybe that was one of Sony's and MS's goals (to push 4KTV's for next-gen consoles).

You see, a lot have said the midgen wasn`t worthy but still bought it, and it represents around 20% of the sales.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

For them, probably good enough to do a repeat.

It allowed the current gen consoles to somewhat keep up with mainsteam gaming PCs, which would have left the current gen consoles performance-wise totally in the dust otherwise. When the PS4 and XBO launched, they were already just at the performance of mainstream PCs and couldn't hope to compete with the high-end in raw performance, so a mid-gen upgrade was needed from the get-go to keep them alive, and the emergence of affordable 4K TVs gave them right excuse to do so.