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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Rate The Xbox Games Showcase

 

How Would You Rate The Xbox Game Showcase?

10 9 5.26%
 
9 11 6.43%
 
8 32 18.71%
 
7 19 11.11%
 
6 35 20.47%
 
5 24 14.04%
 
4 19 11.11%
 
3 11 6.43%
 
2 7 4.09%
 
1 4 2.34%
 
Total:171
goopy20 on 27 July 2020
Ryuu96 said:
hinch said:

Granted there are lot of what if's and a bit of it is conjecture and some not true (at least the way devs/PR describe them). Goopy does raise questions whether the GP model will affect Microsfots first party lineup or roadmap of games. One just needs to look at MS turning Halo into a 10 year game that will be updated Destiny style. Possibly Forza. Maybe Fable since they are doing away with numbered games.

Now they are supporting the system more with other exclusives so there's that. So there will be a steady steam of games over 2022 mark for exclusive content.

I've been calling for Motorsport to go GAAS for a while now, I think it's actually perfect for that type of game and I really can't be bothered with a Motorsport title every 2 years, I'd be more likely to jump into the franchise at some point if it was just a single title across the entire gen.

GAAS doesn't always have to be a bad thing, nowadays it's used so freely as to simply mean providing a large amount of post launch support, I think Fable will have a lot of post launch support in terms of expansions and whatnot but that is already common with Playground Games, Forza Horizon for example has a ton of post launch support which didn't take away from the base game being amazing.

I have 100% faith in Playground Games for Fable, I expect a lengthy AAA ARPG base game with a plan for a lot of support and I don't see that as a bad thing. Although I will say, I think they simply got rid of numbered games because it is a reboot.

I'd actually say one platform for Halo MP makes sense too and I actually prefer it that way, as long as they nail the gameplay and I will say, it better have a decent amount of content at launch. I am however cautious about the campaign being a single platform across the gen, I like my meaty 8 hour+ campaigns so I don't want them to split it up into smaller stories, as long as the campaign additions are still roughly that length then I'd be mostly okay with it, of course priced appropriately as well.

They described it like MCC, wherein a new Halo title has been added to MCC overtime. I'm worried 343 won't have the manpower, they're smaller than even Bungie and supporting on this scale takes a lot of manpower but we'll see.

We gamers all have the same wishes and expectations from our next gen platform of choice. From the "world's most powerful console" we all want exciting new AAA ips that look like they would set a Xbox One on fire if you tried to run it. And I'm also sure most Xbox fans didn't wish for Halo to go full Destiny on us and look like a current gen game.  

Months ago I made the comparison with Kinect and everybody thought I was bonkers. Of course Kinect is a totally different thing than GP but there are definitely some big overlaps. In both cases, MS thought core gaming wasn't good enough. And it both cases corporate strategy is getting in the way of giving Xbox fans what they want. Nobody asked for Kinect games, just like nobody asked for GAAS titles with current gen graphics. Whether we want them or not, we're getting them all the same, though.

Not saying MS just doomed all their ip's, mind you. Maybe Halo, Fable, Forza etc. will all turn out to be great and GAAS will actually benefit those games. But they aren't making them GAAS because they think the games will be better because of it, they are making them GAAS because of corporate strategy. GP is simply way more important to them then selling consoles, and it directly affects the type of games they'll be making. Back then 75% of MS's studios were locked away making Kinect shovelware. And now it seems they're all making GAAS games, designed to scale on a bunch of different devices.  

Last edited by goopy20 - on 27 July 2020

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hinch on 27 July 2020
Ryuu96 said:
hinch said:
Nah I wasn't calling it a bad thing. Its just like all GaaS style games (I know its a stupid acronym) its a way to get people invested into their games. They can just update and add expansions and people will keep coming back for more content.

This is just turning into a norm for consoles on some games. Which to me is worrying as it gives publishers and excuse to rush and release a game even when its not complete. Especially when they are selling a game on a model on the store depend up on it.

I've subscribed to WoW and have subbed many other MMO's so I know that once a game or publisher 'hooks' you in you're basically in. I've been subbed since the origional WoW a few years into release. And come back every once and again.

Yeah, I definitely don't want them to rush the games out incomplete, I hope 343 won't make that mistake again when they got slaughtered for it with Halo 5, I'll have to actually see MP first before worrying about any content issues, the campaign is claimed to be bigger than both 4 and 5 combined so I have no worries there thus far.

From a gameplay standpoint, it looks great Imo, it seems to run fine and there's no noticeable frame-rate issues or whatnot, the main issue is the graphics which honestly, while they aren't the best, they don't really bother me too much, I mean, I'm still on the shitty One S so I'm still very excited for the upgrade, I'd be happy for stable framerates.

That is why I tend to avoid MMOs, I don't want to get hooked and next minute I have thousands of hours in the game. I can ignore most GaaS titles though, I'm pretty much play the campaign, play some multiplayer, move on.

Obsidian I'd expect to still release a single RPG, a couple of expansions then move onto a sequel like they're likely doing with The Outer Worlds 2, I think it depends more on the culture of the studios, plus I doubt Obsidian would be able to support it, it's not their typical M.O

True. If they want to sell people on a game it should be polished and solid from launch but at least the gameplay looked decent and it sounds like they are putting more effort into SP. The Destiny model will most likely work out for them as the game can constantly be update and evolved. I'm tempted to play it on PC, in between my massive backlog and other mainstay games lol.

Yeah, MMO's are dangerous. It can be so addictive but at the same time its can be so much fun to play with friends, like any multiplayer.

I would say MS would want some Studios like Obsidian who are efficient at churning out games to keep the system and GP an RPG machine. I have no doubt that they will work on a sequel to The Outer Worlds after they are done with DLC/s. I can see them churning out at least 3 games on Series X/S. I'm personally more interested in Avowed. That game is rumoured to be bigger in scope than Skyrim, that's nuts.

Last edited by hinch - on 27 July 2020

goopy20 on 27 July 2020
KiigelHeart said:
goopy20 said:

As I said, GP offers good value, but its not like GP replaces the need to ever spend money on games again. A and AA games are cool and all, but in the end we're all still way more excited about next gen versions of the AAA franchises like BF, COD, AC, GTA etc. All games that either won't come to GP at all, or will come years later.

I get that people are comparing it to Netflix, but it really isn't. The difference is that games are very time consuming. For example, I downloaded Monster Hunter World and basically stopped playing anything else for like 3 months. I would have spend $45 playing MHW, while I could have just bought the game from the bargain bin for $20. I would have physically owned it and never had to worry about it being pulled from GP. 

GP isn't always the best value. It kinda depends on what games you're into. Personally I'm just scrolling through those 1000 titles thinking "I played this 2 years ago already" or I'm seeing games I never even heard off thinking "nope, nope, nope". I just don't have the time and interest to play every single game ever released. I would rather spend $60 on a single game I really care about playing. Or waste my time on the VGchartz forum ;)

Nobody has claimed GP replaces the need to ever buy games again. And not a single game is exclusive to GP, you can still buy them if this service doesn't suit you. 

All that drivel but you didn't bother to explain how focusing only on GP at the expense of sending a next-gen isn't consumer friendly at all.

And you still tried to make it sound as if all GP games are A or AA.. goopy plz. 

How can you not see it lol. After all the stuff MS's has said and shown, can you give me 1 single reason why anyone should be excited to buy a Series X? Everything they showed will run fine on either the console you already own or is years away from release. They don't want games on GP that are designed for a 12Tflops beast of a console. They want games on there that everybody can play, even if you have a Xbox or weak sauce pc (compared to next gen specs).

Also, from all those AAA games on GP, how many of them didn't you play already 1 or 2 years ago? RDR2 came out on GP like 1,5 years after release. Are people who are dying to jump into Rockstar next masterpiece really going to hold out and hope it'll show up on GP, 2 freakin' years later? 

Smaller titles that slipped under the radar and MS's day one exclusives are obviously the main draw of GP. Unfortunately, games like Gears 5 simply aren't a good fit with their business model. I mean when Gears 5 came out, I immediately signed up for a $1 GP trial, finished the game and then cancelled my subscription. I'm sure a release like that boosted GP numbers but I'm sure that's not how MS plans to make money with GP. They need episodic or GAAS games that'll keep GP users engaged. Not the AAA blockbusters (that we all want) because they take too long to make, are too quick to finish and are just too risky. 

Last edited by goopy20 - on 27 July 2020

chakkra on 27 July 2020
CGI-Quality said:
Two things wrong with bringing up the Killzone trailer. A. ONE executive tried to pass it off as gameplay (Sony themselves never said it was). B. When the true game was shown, people were still impressed (very, in fact). C. The final game not only looked better, but some things about it actually cleared the original prerendered target.

This is, for all intents an purposes, not a slight to Halo at all, which leads me to my next point...

Being that this was unnecessary to begin with, please stay the course people. No need to derail the thread and "take bait". Nothing wrong with ciomparing like-for-like situations, but don't try to "get" someone by just picking to pick.

"Games like Horizon, God of War, FF7R, Ghost, TLOU2 and Uncharted 4 were revealed YEARS before they were actually released and they managed to impress despite being early builds. "
- LurkerJ said on this thread


Okay, So let me see if I understand how this works, people here able to bring up Sony games when they put Sony in a good light, but when they do the opposite then it is "hey, guys let's just keep this about Microsoft, okay?" Is that how this work over here?


Why is it wrong to bring up the Killer instinct trailer? I see people here all the time saying that they don't trust Microsoft because of Scalebound, Ryse, Crackdown, etc.


So why are we not able to say that we do not trust Sony because they straight up lied with the Killzone trailer? or with the Ghost of Tsushima gameplay downgrade?

Oh and btw, ONE Sony executive saying something means Sony said it, the same way ONE Microsoft executive saying something means MS said it.



sales2099 on 27 July 2020
eva01beserk said:
sales2099 said:

Actually no. I had a narrative based on what was given. The showcase provided new information. So while the PR states 1-2 years the reality is that most of those games announced fall outside the window. Next gen exclusives always were the greatest thing, I made my opinion very clear that the first year you can’t expect the same level of pushing hardware that later years can do. So I didn’t flip on anything actually. 

2021 we’ll see, but 2022 is when we should start getting the influx of the main studios efforts. 

So are you saying then that there wont be big exclusive games aside from halo until that time window expires? 

I don’t know. MS held things back. Sony held back games too. We’ll see 

Forza Horizon 5 is likely the AAA game of 2021. Will be 4 years since the last one. Psychonauts 2, Grounded, AoE 4 for PC. And XGS Publishing/those timed exclusives should round out the year. Imo 2022 is when the real magic happens. Big exclusives from devs with years of experience developing with Series X hardware. 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

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KiigelHeart on 27 July 2020
goopy20 said:
KiigelHeart said:

Nobody has claimed GP replaces the need to ever buy games again. And not a single game is exclusive to GP, you can still buy them if this service doesn't suit you. 

All that drivel but you didn't bother to explain how focusing only on GP at the expense of sending a next-gen isn't consumer friendly at all.

And you still tried to make it sound as if all GP games are A or AA.. goopy plz. 

How can you not see it lol. After all the stuff MS's has said and shown, can you give me 1 single reason why anyone should be excited to buy a Series X? Everything they showed will run fine on either the console you already own or is years away from release. They don't want games on GP that are designed for a 12Tflops beast of a console. They want games on there that everybody can play, even if you have a Xbox or weak sauce pc (compared to next gen specs).

Also, from all those AAA games on GP, how many of them didn't you play already 1 or 2 years ago? RDR2 came out on GP like 1,5 years after release. Are people who are dying to jump into Rockstar next masterpiece really going to hold out and hope it'll show up on GP, 2 freakin' years later? 

Smaller titles that slipped under the radar and MS's day one exclusives are obviously the main draw of GP. Unfortunately, games like Gears 5 simply aren't a good fit with their business model. I mean when Gears 5 came out, I immediately signed up for a $1 GP trial, finished the game and then cancelled my subscription. I'm sure a release like that boosted GP numbers but I'm sure that's not how MS plans to make money with GP. They need episodic or GAAS games that'll keep GP users engaged. Not the AAA blockbusters (that we all want) because they take too long to make, are too quick to finish and are just too risky. 

More and more goopy-drivel yet you didn't answer how focusing on GP is anti-consumer. To bolded question, "we're all excited to play those next-gen AAA games like CoD, AC, GTA etc" your own words. On top of that you get to play the better version of Halo and whatever games were planned to be cross-gen in the coming year. And despite what you claim, there will be GP games designed for the beast of a console.

Metro Exodus, Doom 2016, Shadow of War, Prey are just some of the 3rd party AAA games I played on GP. 

Gears 5 is GaaS that keeps people engaged. It's also a AAA blockbuster. There's over 10 million subscribers so yeah, I'd say these games do a good job keeping users engaged. Main draw of GP is the diverse selection of games from A to AAA. Pretty cool, huh?



sales2099 on 27 July 2020
goopy20 said:
sales2099 said:

Xbox changed their stance apparently...most game reveals we saw don’t have a Xbox One version. Your narrative is a bust, the cross gen initiative just applies to Halo and the smaller stuff like Grounded and Psychonauts, Tell Me Why, etc. Big games aren’t affected. Not even Everwild has a Xbox One version anymore. 

Game Pass needs a mix of A-AAA. Games from Ori, Grounded, to Hellblade 2 and Avowed. AAA games drive the service like Gears 5 and Forza Horizon 4 before. A-AA is to pad out the year and keep people invested in interesting experiences. If you respond and tell me Avowed and Fable aren’t going to be AAA then that’s straight up trolling. Even Hellblade 2 and SoD3 is supposed to be AAA. 

I keep saying it here, but you telling me some games are a ways away just tells me Xbox is done with game droughts. They have enough studios to ensure that doesn’t happen. Don’t spread false rumors, Fable is confirmed to not be a MMO. 

Yeah, they sure did. But don't you find that odd after all the stuff Phil's been saying about not leaving anyone behind? To me it feels like they put a strategy in motion but after the May event, they realized it wasn't such a great idea after all and now they're backpedaling.

I respect that you're a loyal Xbox fan but even you have to admit that MS had a lot to prove after the disastrous May event. Would their cross gen strategy really not hold Halo back, would they show amazing new next gen AAA ip's, would the Initiative show their mind blowing AAAA title? All we got is confirmation that "Optimized for Series X" means nothing - besides a bump in framerate and resolution - even when their flag ship title was supposedly natively designed for Series X. They also showed that they have nothing truly next gen planned for the near future. That's why they had to resort to cgi smoke and mirrors and there's no way to take the Hell Blade 2 footage serious anymore. Like Runa said, it's the same empty promises we've been hearing since 2013 and MS has a spectacular history of under delivering. As always, we'll just have to wait and see with Fable and Avowed, but I hope you at least understand where all the skepticism is coming from.

I'm seriously curious what you think about 343 pulling a Destiny on us with the Halo franchise, though. As a big Halo fan myself, its bad enough that its a current gen game, but what's even worse is that they're not planning on making another Halo game for the coming decade...  After seeing what they're doing to Halo, I don't want MS to go anyway near developers like WB or buy any other studios, until we know for sure that they won't just use them for GAAS and GP fillers. 

It’s not a backpedal if the games literally fall outside the 1-2 year window. Usually it’s the launch period/year 1 where late adopters don’t want to feel abandoned. Year 2 is fair game. 

I had my criticisms but I’m overall very excited. Playground and Obsidian know their stuff so I don’t need to see mandatory gameplay to know Xbox being the WRPG king next gen. I mean Horizon showed in engine and that was Sony’s big finale. Yet people dismiss Forzas trailer....huh. Sure as hell impressed me. I’ll keep saying it this shows there will be no droughts and Xbox has healthy variety of IPs. That’s something to be excited about.

It’s weird saying you a big Halo fan yet also be so anti Xbox. It’s like you a double agent or something lol. To be honest I would be happy with Halo Infinite taking the Destiny route so long as the core game is amazing and worth it. If it’s not, and updates don’t catch on, then the same thing will happen like Destiny 1. They cut it short and make a sequel. We’ll see. 

Thank you for telling me the next narrative. I wasn’t sure what it would be after “Xbox games all CG no gameplay” dies out once we get gameplay. “GP forced filler and GaaS for all Xbox studios”. Beautiful narrative. Totally not toxic at all. 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

goopy20 on 27 July 2020
chakkra said:
CGI-Quality said:
Two things wrong with bringing up the Killzone trailer. A. ONE executive tried to pass it off as gameplay (Sony themselves never said it was). B. When the true game was shown, people were still impressed (very, in fact). C. The final game not only looked better, but some things about it actually cleared the original prerendered target.

This is, for all intents an purposes, not a slight to Halo at all, which leads me to my next point...

Being that this was unnecessary to begin with, please stay the course people. No need to derail the thread and "take bait". Nothing wrong with ciomparing like-for-like situations, but don't try to "get" someone by just picking to pick.

"Games like Horizon, God of War, FF7R, Ghost, TLOU2 and Uncharted 4 were revealed YEARS before they were actually released and they managed to impress despite being early builds. "
- LurkerJ said on this thread


Okay, So let me see if I understand how this works, people here able to bring up Sony games when they put Sony in a good light, but when they do the opposite then it is "hey, guys let's just keep this about Microsoft, okay?" Is that how this work over here?


Why is it wrong to bring up the Killer instinct trailer? I see people here all the time saying that they don't trust Microsoft because of Scalebound, Ryse, Crackdown, etc.


So why are we not able to say that we do not trust Sony because they straight up lied with the Killzone trailer? or with the Ghost of Tsushima gameplay downgrade?

Oh and btw, ONE Sony executive saying something means Sony said it, the same way ONE Microsoft executive saying something means MS said it.

Its because Sony has proven themselves with a ton of generation defining games that sold +10m copies, while MS hasn't had anything to get really excited about since.... well... I can't remember actually. 

Call it bias but its pretty much a given that games like HZW, GOW etc. will look amazing and end up as pretty great games. MS does have some nice studios as well and who knows, maybe they will surprise us. But that is the thing, even the biggest Xbox fan would probably be surprised if State of Decay 3 ends up being a AAA master piece.



sales2099 on 27 July 2020
hinch said:
Shaunodon said:

You heard it here folks. Trying to shove people into buying your expensive new console, is more consumer friendly than giving them shit tons of games for $1 available through several platforms.

You see it as a someone already in their Ecosystem. Someone outside it may not see the value of said games.

I'm not arguing against for or against btw :P

Anyone with a internet connection and their own bank account could check the games on the service and see the value. (No offence intended here) 

Last edited by sales2099 - on 27 July 2020

Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

sales2099 on 27 July 2020
Runa216 said:
sales2099 said:



Your description of the games doesn’t change what I said. The narrative is temporary. Gameplay is inevitable. Marketing and Game Pass will almost always guarantee a audience for them. Xbox having 15 officially confirmed 1st party games is unprecedented. Even if you don’t know much about many of them this is uncharted waters. No more over relying on the “trinity”. No more game droughts. You have to at least acknowledge that. 

You seem like a traditional gamer, and that’s fine. But at least put yourself in the shoes of gamers that play a ton of games every year regarding GP. It truly is a system seller in its own right for what it does. 

“even you don't seem to think there's any value in the actual Xbox, it's all about Gamepass to you.”. Well considering GP is exclusive to the Xbox brand, and I don’t have a gaming PC, it seems Xbox consoles are the way to go for me. The only place I can play Halo or Hellblade or Avowed is Xbox consoles. Because this may shock you....dozens of millions of gamers don’t care about gaming on PC. They want the cost effective convenience of a gaming console. And GP allows me to play a ton of games both 1st and 3rd, because saving money actually matters to most people. Knowing I will most certainly pay more $$$ if I went the PS route, logically Xbox is my console of choice. 

You have a problem empathizing how people could like what you don’t. Please try.

You know, you are one of the most dedicated fans I've ever seen, going so far as to blatantly draw lines in the sand and turn this into some weird me vs you, us vs them mentality. I have no problem empathizing with people who don't agree with me, I have made it clear I criticize all consoles and all manufacturers based on what they do well and what they don't. It just so happens to be that Microsoft has not done much to impress me (or many others) for a long time now while Nintendo and Sony ARE doing very well. 

You say I can't empathize or understand people like what I don't, but you have it backwards. You are the one who seems to have the chain of causality backwards. you have it in your head that the only reason I'm critical of Microsoft is because I hate them and want them to fail. You act like I'm just a 'hater' and that I'll hate what they do regardless of whether I'd like it or not, where the reason I'm so critical is...becuase they keep fucking up. I don't hate them because I'm a hater, I'm critical of them because they're fucking up. The issue lies with them. As a consumer myself I have every right to pick and chose - as do you - and I'd much rather have all consoles like I have the past three generations. (Five if you only count the PS1/N64 for that generation and Genesis/SNES for the one prior to that). I want all consoles, I hate the petty fighting, I don't like missing out on potentially good deals, and I think the industry is better when there's competition. 

but Microsoft keeps fucking up.

They keep failing to deliver on promises.

They routinely have little to no exclusives.

They keep making decisions that drive people away from their brand.

They keep focusing on things that don't matter.

They keep pushing the 'most powerful console' narrative but then give us what we saw at this showcase

They keep promising new teams and new games and new IPs and yet almost none of their games over the past 3-5 years have been great. 

The franchises they have got have been growing stale.

Microsoft keeps fucking up. 

And they keep doing it. They keep twisting logic to make it sound better than it is, they fail to make new IPs or try new things they have no games (And what few games they do have come to PC), and people like you keep bending over backwards to justify it. If you like what they offer, that's fine. What I'm critical of is the fact that you seem to love absolutely everything they do and hate what Sony does even if they are remarkably comparable in look, feel, tone, and delivery. That's about as 'loyal' as you can get. Unlike you with Xbox, I hate or dislike or am neutral on a lot of things Sony does...but they do so many things that it doesn't matter that I think Uncharted is overrated as hell, I can still play Ratchet & Clank. It doesn't matter that I hate Racing games like Gran Turismo and Drive Club, I can still play Bloodborne. It doesn't matter that Sports games are the bane of my existence and thus will never touch MLB The Show, I still have God of War and Spider-Man and Horizon Zero Dawn and so many others. 

With Xbox, you've still really only got the holy trinity of Halo, Gears, and Forza. Little else breaks through or is in any way impressive. If you don't like shooters or racers, there's really nothing for you on Xbox One. If you honestly think tripe like Crackdown 3, Ryse, SEa of Thieves, and State of Decay are enough to make the Xbox worth it to the average person, you're delusional. If you like those games, fine, but don't pretend I'm strange for saying it's not good enough. 

Because that's what you're doing. You're being critical of me for being critical of your brand. And yes it is your brand, clearly. You're being a hypocrite. I'm not allowed to be critical of Microsoft in your eyes, something you've made stunningly and repeatedly clear. but you can bitch at me and call me all manner of names because of it. You're a hypocrite. 

Microsoft keeps fucking up and it'll do a lot more than what they showed in this presentation to make me trust them again. They've been pulling this crap for the better part of a decade and I'm not going to fall for it again. I concede that GamePass is a good deal...for people who like that sort of thing. If it was the sort of thing more people wanted, it'd be more successful. At that price, EVERYONE should have it, but they don't. and EVERYONE has a PC. So cut it out. Stop acting like I'm crazy or delusional because I rightly criticize a company that has been fucking up and doing the same hype loop for the last ten years or so. 

Hey I get it, you have good personal reason to be who you are. The misteps aren’t lost on me either. Doesn’t change you are now jaded and have a more pessimistic view. I chose to be more optimistic. 

I’m simply seeing them doing things that they never did even at their best (early 360 years). They invest in powerful hardware, which is something I wanted after Xbox One disappointed. Their BC approach is the best in the industry, and I do use that time to time. Carrying forward my library matters to me. Game Pass allows me to play thousands of dollars worth of games for cheap. The trinity appeals to me. And now they have more games in development then they ever had. Far away or not it’s signs of genuine change, regardless of how long I have to wait to play all of them. I don’t need to see gameplay to have 100% faith in Obsidian and Playground. 

And imo, the PC route they taking is genius. For console only gamers this means nothing for obvious reasons. People who game on PC either do so exclusively or have a combination of PS and Nintendo. They have 0 motivation to get a Xbox console. MS found a way to make them Xbox gamers. Even people like Goopy admit to going to play Halo on PC. That alone should tell you something. MS literally is making customers out of haters, adding to their ecosystem. They give them money, even if through Steam, make a Xbox account, and most importantly...give them their precious time instead of playing somewhere else.

So I guess that’s it. We just have a different outlook. That and PS exclusives just don’t appeal to me. I mean KZ and LOU are tempting but the sequels just didn’t do it for me narratively speaking. They hardly offer any multiplayer either which is huge to me. 

Last edited by sales2099 - on 27 July 2020

Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles.