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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Rate The Xbox Games Showcase

 

How Would You Rate The Xbox Game Showcase?

10 9 5.26%
 
9 11 6.43%
 
8 32 18.71%
 
7 19 11.11%
 
6 35 20.47%
 
5 24 14.04%
 
4 19 11.11%
 
3 11 6.43%
 
2 7 4.09%
 
1 4 2.34%
 
Total:171
eva01beserk on 25 July 2020
sales2099 said:
eva01beserk said:

Im not telling you gamepass is a bad service or not worth the money. Im telling you that if you want a netflix kind of service, you should expect a netflix level of content. Netflix does not kick out massive blockbuster one after the other. They make very few interesting originals, then a ass load of filler smaller level content and third party hits that are long past its excitement phase and everyone has already seen it. 

Already said it multyple times, thouse 3 games will not be gimped. It will probably be the big guns that will carry the service, im sure there will be a few others but the majority of the content you can receive has to be lower budget to acomodate the service.

I was never into xbox and would have never bought an xbox, but their games are not exclusive to xbox i could play them on pc if they where good. and of that showcase the only game I thinking off is fable and we saw nothing of it, but I loved the first one and hope its good.

Nobody is denying that they doing smaller games to pad out the years. It’s when people say the AAA games will be gimped that I take issue. GP needs both to keep people on it. If we can agree on that then we good here. 

I think your confusing the issue with games being crossgen. Thats definetly a way to gimpe your game. The gamepass argument as always been that new games wont be big budget.



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

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eva01beserk on 25 July 2020
Ryuu96 said:
eva01beserk said:

Definetly a beta is not quick. But they already had a playable section wich we saw. I would not doubt the beta was already finished. I got no source for that. I'm mearly talking with the speculation others have made online. But I'm betting they are right and ms is just trying to spin. There's no doubt halo was meant to be the biggest thing they got not only this year but next year as well. Its halo, what the Xbox is know for. Any criticism would have made them doubt their product. I for a not even for a second believe a game with 5 years of development had the entire game turned upside down only at the last few months and in a couple more months it will just magically look next gen.

And I ask you again. What was impresive about thouse AAA announcements? Cuz I don't remember seing anything but cg. Like we saw for halo. Did you get a release date? How much money was invested? What makes those AAA?

I have already said before many times. There will be AAA games on gamepass. But I keep saying don't expect all thouse devs they adquired to make AAA. most of thouse will be focused on smaller titles only. Its the nature of that kind of service. 

There is nothing bad will smaller games. The problem I have is with peoples expectations and buying into MS pr of them wanting 3-4 AAA Games a year. That's just not gona happen. 

That was a playable section of the campaign which was likely a bitch to make during these times, the beta is for the multiplayer however.

Lets look at other XGS Betas, Gears 4 beta was made 6 months prior to release (it was also trashed for its graphics then release a huge graphical update in the space of a month), Halo 5 beta was 9 months prior to release. If this was normal times, the Halo Infinite beta likely would have launch sometime around January - March but Covid hit around that time, likely throwing a spanner into their plans and they had to prioritise other areas.

"Any criticism would have made them doubt their product." - What exactly do you think betas are for? Lol. Testing gameplay, testing servers and receiving feedback which often comes in the form of criticism, you're essentially saying they avoided doing a beta, to avoid receiving constructive criticism, which is exactly what betas are for.

What makes those games AAA is they're literally referred to as AAA by the studios creating them...AAA only refers to budget, only a studio knows their budget, where in your criteria does AAA start? $20m? $30m? Now tell me what budget those studios have...You can't, it's simply speculation on your part whereas I'm actually using job postings or the developers own words.

This is why I didn't say State of Decay 3 or Everwild is AAA outright, cause I simply don't know, whereas we know Playground's Fable, Obsidian's RPG and The Initiative's IP are AAA because it has stated it outright in their job postings.

I've been keeping track of Xbox Game Studios for a long time, I have a continuously updated post in Empire so lets go through it.

AAA

  1. 343 Industries
  2. The Coalition
  3. The Initiative
  4. Turn 10
  5. Playground Games (Fable & Horizon).
  6. Obsidian
  7. InXile
  8. World's Edge

AA

  1. Mojang
  2. Compulsion
  3. Double Fine

Don't Know For Sure

  1. Ninja Theory
  2. Rare
  3. Undead Labs

Of course, Obsidian could also go into AA alongside AAA as they have multiple teams, as can World's Edge as they're working on ports alongside Age of Empires IV, Ninja Theory could go into AA too as they have multiple teams but we don't know the scale of Hellblade II yet, Rare is an unknown as well but IIRC Sea of Thieves actually had a pretty big budget, then we have Undead Labs, I'm not saying where they'll be for certain but there's already been talk of making it a lot bigger than SoD2.

Then there's also XGP who do a mix of both AA and AAA, 3-4 AAA titles per year isn't really that unbelievable, they're releasing 3 in this year alone with Halo Infinite, Gears Tactics and Flight Simulator. That 3-4 per year is the eventual goal anyway, when the studios are settled, not the goal for right this minute but hey they're already meeting it.

I will give you that AAA was not the best way to describe it. While it does usually mean budget, it has no meaning on quality. Also like you said a dev can just call what ever they want AAA.

I would not call gears tactic AAA but I gess thats just me. 



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

hinch on 25 July 2020

@shikamaru317

Yup, they need to show more of their first and second party games running on the console before launch. No more target renders, or CGI. People want to see what they are going to play over the upcoming years not animated movies of games. That's where my disappointment is coming from, they have all these studios who've been so hard at work on a powerful new console and they can't show a tiny bit of gameplay.

And they definitely need to nail Halo. Its 100% their system seller and they have to make sure its top tier. Anything less and it could prove bad not just for the franchise but the console itself. They probably have other studios helping 343i with that, so fingers crossed.

But yeah, want to see what Initiative Games come up with.. they're basically have an all star dev team. Gotta be big.

Last edited by hinch - on 25 July 2020

EpicRandy on 25 July 2020
eva01beserk said:
EpicRandy said:

500M for destiny franchise was including expected cost of infras support for 10 years and marketing cost.

Rokstar GTA 500M budget for GTAV is far from the norm and was only possible because there were basicaly no risk in doing so.

I'll say 40M to 100M (including marketing) is probably where the vast majority of AAA is.

Marketing cost could also be dramatically lowered with Gamepass, I hardly ever saw commercial for netflix content. Investment into other project might just be a better marketing investment in the long run than pure marketing investment in this model.

I say 3-4 AAA/year is not out of questions, far from it. All will depends on mass adoptions of the service, right now it's 10M+ which should bring about 1B$+ in revenue/year depending on how revenue are split between AAA, AA, third party deals and operating cost (which I doubt are that high) it could already be enough 3-4 AAA.

The key here is how Microsoft will bring Game pass from a 10m subribers to 20m, 50m, 100m and for this aspect the Showcase give a great insight. It basically tell Microsoft will not shy away from investment into Gamepass.

True, with the right number of subs it can happen and even more than they promised. But to get there you first need the content to bring the subs, but need the subs to bring the content and so on. So take a massive loss now, or they have been taking a massive loss already. Cant know, they wont say.

Well how much do you think the average movie cost? Its only the marvels and so on that cost hundreds of millions. The average movie is also under $100m. How about the average show? I cant say that I know. After a quick search I saw it cost 2-3m per episode. seasons are between 12-24 episodes so it could cost 24-36m on a 12 episode season. the first season of the witcher cost $200m. thats one of the highest if im not mistaken. So the average show and movie still cost what the average AA game cost. ANd AAA cost could be around big blockbuster movies and big shows like the witcher. 

Well I did a little dig on the subject. 

If this hold any water the number of games with a budget over 50M (combined production + Marketing) is extremely limited. it is not exhaustive as information on the subject seems to be scarce. I think we could easily add Death Stranding, Uncharted 4, The Last of Us 2 and probably a handfull of other recent AAA.

This tell us the average budget of AAA during 7th gen was between 10-20M and assess that the cost during 8 gen have greatly increased but don't give specific figure. Still we can extrapolate that a 100M+ budget is atypical and must be generaly reserved to sequel of extremly popular title the likes of TLoU.

the-numbers.com list 400+ movie with budget of 100M+ and this is just production cost not factoring in marketing cost. 

So I think it's fair to say the average movie cost probably around 2x maybe more than the average AAA game even without factoring their marketing cost.

If I were to guess I would say a 250-350M well managed budget should be more than enough to finance 4 AAA/year. So I don't think Microsoft is that far off with current Gamepass userbase.

You also have to take into account that Gamerpass and upcoming XCloud is a way for Microsoft to drastically reduce the entry cost to AAA - AA gaming. If played well it's probably the best shot Microsoft will ever have to finaly unlock emerging market. And if they could tap into this market that's certain to be a game changer.

Last edited by EpicRandy - on 25 July 2020

chakkra on 26 July 2020
hinch said:
shikamaru317 said:
Did the math on the poll above, average so far is 6.03/10. That's really not too bad considering that Xbox has the smallest fanbase on VGC.

It probably falls down to the audience and what Xbox is going to offer in the near future with their new console and games. The announcements may have more weight to it for people already in the Xbox ecosystem. I see quite a few people really happy with the announcements and being able to play their exclusives day 1 on Game Pass.

People outside that ecosystem (Playstation/PC/Nintendo or non gamers) it may be a bit more critical due to them not showing enough to what they have to offer.

If I were into GaaS and Gamepass I would probably rate it higher, but I'm not so. Pretty interesting though.

I seem to have missed part of the presentation..  how many games were shown that were GaaS?



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chakkra on 26 July 2020

I just want to say that this site has become predictable. Way before the presentation was already easy to know exactly which people here were going to be "disappointed and concerned" with Ms's show. The reason for the "disappointment" is the only thing that has changed. Before used to be "Ms has no exclusives" then "MS is just Halo, Gears and Forza" then "where are the new IPs?" now it has changed to "MS has too many games, that means they are focusing on quantity instead of quality."



hinch on 26 July 2020
chakkra said:
hinch said:

It probably falls down to the audience and what Xbox is going to offer in the near future with their new console and games. The announcements may have more weight to it for people already in the Xbox ecosystem. I see quite a few people really happy with the announcements and being able to play their exclusives day 1 on Game Pass.

People outside that ecosystem (Playstation/PC/Nintendo or non gamers) it may be a bit more critical due to them not showing enough to what they have to offer.

If I were into GaaS and Gamepass I would probably rate it higher, but I'm not so. Pretty interesting though.

I seem to have missed part of the presentation..  how many games were shown that were GaaS?

I was referring Game Pass as a GaaS. But um Halo Infinite and Destiny 2. They said they have a 10 year plan for Infinte.

Last edited by hinch - on 26 July 2020

Shaunodon on 26 July 2020
hinch said:

@shikamaru317

Yup, they need to show more of their first and second party games running on the console before launch. No more target renders, or CGI. People want to see what they are going to play over the upcoming years not animated movies of games. That's where my disappointment is coming from, they have all these studios who've been so hard at work on a powerful new console and they can't show a tiny bit of gameplay.

And they definitely need to nail Halo. Its 100% their system seller and they have to make sure its top tier. Anything less and it could prove bad not just for the franchise but the console itself. They probably have other studios helping 343i with that, so fingers crossed.

But yeah, want to see what Initiative Games come up with.. they're basically have an all star dev team. Gotta be big.

You basically already answered your first issue with the second one. Xbox has been banking on that Halo Infinite gameplay as being their first showcase for next-gen, to the point of having to drag devs from other teams to help. Problem is that the Halo gameplay underwhelmed.

They've put a lot of eggs in that one basket for this early next-gen, and it's slowed down their ability to focus on or showcase other upcomming titles, outside of just announcing a ton of them.

The sooner they can get Halo Infinite ready to a satisfactory degree, the sooner they can focus more on their other studios and titles.



Runa216 on 26 July 2020
chakkra said:

I just want to say that this site has become predictable. Way before the presentation was already easy to know exactly which people here were going to be "disappointed and concerned" with Ms's show. The reason for the "disappointment" is the only thing that has changed. Before used to be "Ms has no exclusives" then "MS is just Halo, Gears and Forza" then "where are the new IPs?" now it has changed to "MS has too many games, that means they are focusing on quantity instead of quality."

In all my time here and all the perusing of these threads, I haven't seen a single person claiming that. Are you sure you're not bringing in outside influence?



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LudicrousSpeed on 26 July 2020
chakkra said:

I just want to say that this site has become predictable. Way before the presentation was already easy to know exactly which people here were going to be "disappointed and concerned" with Ms's show. The reason for the "disappointment" is the only thing that has changed. Before used to be "Ms has no exclusives" then "MS is just Halo, Gears and Forza" then "where are the new IPs?" now it has changed to "MS has too many games, that means they are focusing on quantity instead of quality."

Console warz never changes. Look at all the expansions and additions their studios have been making for two years and all the AAA projects they are working on and yet we’ve went from “just Halo/Gears/Forza” to “well it’s all GamePass filler”. Those people will never be satisfied.