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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Did Nintendo save gaming with the NES?

 

Did Nintendo save gaming with the NES?

Yes 70 70.00%
 
No 30 30.00%
 
Total:100

Videogames (arcade at home), probably.

Computer games, no.



Nov 2016 - NES outsells PS1 (JP)

Don't Play Stationary 4 ever. Switch!

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tack50 said:
LivingMetal said:

Oh... So you agree that in this reality Nintendo DID save console gaming?  Thanks.

No I do not. Let us clarify. They saved console gaming in North America. But North America =/= console gaming at large.

And it isn't an inevitability like I said. With no NES or a flop, maybe the SMS takes its place. Or the Game Boy revives the market. Or the SNES/MD or possibly even the PSX.

Neither Europe nor Japan were affected. The former had a small console market until the PSX and the latter never had a crash either.

That's kinda stupid to say.If Benjamin Franklin haven't discovered electricity, someone else would. If Einstein didn't develop his theories that would lead to the atomic bomb, someone else would.

The fire that burned the Alexandria library set humanity back 500 hundred years, not forever.People eventually discovered/invented all those things again.

Same for gaming. Someone else would bring it back from the dead, if Nintendo didn't do it. That dosen't diminish or nullifies the accomplishment of the people and/or companies that did it first.The fact that Nintendo saved the industry(first, if you wanna look it that way) when they did, using the vision and the courage they had, is just an indisputable fact.



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1

Nautilus said:
SvennoJ said:

Actually MS was behind the MSX platform which is the birthplace of Metal Gear Solid. The MSX did well in Japan and in parts of Europe, but for some reason failed in the USA.

Nintendo on the other hand was seen as the kiddie console where I lived with expensive cartridges and crappy conversions. NES and the 50hz curse... Sony dragged consoles away from the games are for kids stigma back to where they were with Atari, Commodore and Amiga.

Anyway, I was born in '74, been playing games since 1980 and never heard of the video game crash until I moved to NA. Apparently I lived through it without ever noticing it, happily gaming away.

Yeaaaah, kind of.

First of all, gaming was never seen as an "adult hobby" until the 7th gen, let's all be honest here. It was never seen as that during the 2nd gen- Atari - (don't even know where you took that from), and while Sony moved towards that direction, they only really accomplished that "adulthood approved seal" during the 7th gen, since before that it was very much as a kid/teen hobby (even if Nintendo had that reputation of the " for young kids" image, while Sony and MS had that "for teens and 20s "teens"" going for it.)

Second, Nintendo DID prove the industry authenticity and viability, not only bringing it back from the dead, but also getting record breaking sales numbers with it's consoles, games. Not to mention all the new experiences never before seen that it brought to the table, thus proving that it could be more than something to "pass the time"

Anyways, never got this recent trend of trying to downplay the vital role that Nintendo had in rescuying the industry from the blink of destruction.

Ever heard of a little title called Myst?

My introduction to Atari was from people (adults) being so in awe of it they let us play with it to show how cool it was.

I'm not trying to downplay the role of Nintendo. I simply grew up in that era and never got a Nintendo console until I bought the N64 myself. My first introduction to Mario was on the game boy. The console simply was not popular where I lived, nor did video games need saving. Sierra was doing perfectly fine without Nintendo.

The thread title is, Did Nintendo save gaming. No, but they did make console gaming popular (home computers without a keyboard) and I guess contributed to the demise of the Commodore Amiga. Commodore went bankrupt in 1994 :/

The Amiga 500 came out just over 30 years ago, seeing as many as 6000 games released across its lifespan and that of its two immediate successors, the Amiga 600 and Amiga 1200. / A total of 715 known licensed game titles were released for the Nintendo Entertainment System (NES) during its life span.




tack50 said:
LivingMetal said:

Oh... So you agree that in this reality Nintendo DID save console gaming?  Thanks.

No I do not. Let us clarify. They saved console gaming in North America. But North America =/= console gaming at large.

And it isn't an inevitability like I said. With no NES or a flop, maybe the SMS takes its place. Or the Game Boy revives the market. Or the SNES/MD or possibly even the PSX.

Neither Europe nor Japan were affected. The former had a small console market until the PSX and the latter never had a crash either.

Did you not just said:

"Designing an scenario where some other console saves the console market in the US is relatively easy."

Last edited by LivingMetal - on 09 July 2020

Nautilus said:
tack50 said:

No I do not. Let us clarify. They saved console gaming in North America. But North America =/= console gaming at large.

And it isn't an inevitability like I said. With no NES or a flop, maybe the SMS takes its place. Or the Game Boy revives the market. Or the SNES/MD or possibly even the PSX.

Neither Europe nor Japan were affected. The former had a small console market until the PSX and the latter never had a crash either.

That's kinda stupid to say.If Benjamin Franklin haven't discovered electricity, someone else would. If Einstein didn't develop his theories that would lead to the atomic bomb, someone else would.

The fire that burned the Alexandria library set humanity back 500 hundred years, not forever.People eventually discovered/invented all those things again.

Same for gaming. Someone else would bring it back from the dead, if Nintendo didn't do it. That dosen't diminish or nullifies the accomplishment of the people and/or companies that did it first.The fact that Nintendo saved the industry(first, if you wanna look it that way) when they did, using the vision and the courage they had, is just an indisputable fact.

Maybe in some people's reality magic exists.



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SvennoJ said:
Nautilus said:

Yeaaaah, kind of.

First of all, gaming was never seen as an "adult hobby" until the 7th gen, let's all be honest here. It was never seen as that during the 2nd gen- Atari - (don't even know where you took that from), and while Sony moved towards that direction, they only really accomplished that "adulthood approved seal" during the 7th gen, since before that it was very much as a kid/teen hobby (even if Nintendo had that reputation of the " for young kids" image, while Sony and MS had that "for teens and 20s "teens"" going for it.)

Second, Nintendo DID prove the industry authenticity and viability, not only bringing it back from the dead, but also getting record breaking sales numbers with it's consoles, games. Not to mention all the new experiences never before seen that it brought to the table, thus proving that it could be more than something to "pass the time"

Anyways, never got this recent trend of trying to downplay the vital role that Nintendo had in rescuying the industry from the blink of destruction.

Ever heard of a little title called Myst?

My introduction to Atari was from people (adults) being so in awe of it they let us play with it to show how cool it was.

I'm not trying to downplay the role of Nintendo. I simply grew up in that era and never got a Nintendo console until I bought the N64 myself. My first introduction to Mario was on the game boy. The console simply was not popular where I lived, nor did video games need saving. Sierra was doing perfectly fine without Nintendo.

The thread title is, Did Nintendo save gaming. No, but they did make console gaming popular (home computers without a keyboard) and I guess contributed to the demise of the Commodore Amiga. Commodore went bankrupt in 1994 :/

The Amiga 500 came out just over 30 years ago, seeing as many as 6000 games released across its lifespan and that of its two immediate successors, the Amiga 600 and Amiga 1200. / A total of 715 known licensed game titles were released for the Nintendo Entertainment System (NES) during its life span.


I do understand where you are comming from, but your example comes from a personal experience of a regional occurance, whereas this debate revolves around gaming as a whole, in the whole world.

Bolded: There were adults that were fans of gaming, for sure, but the perception of the general public was that games was for kids. And that's the whole point. Enthusiasts exist everywhere and have different ages, but these discussion, about impacts to the industry and overall perception, is regarded against the overall public and/or society.

So yes, not only did Nintendo save gaming, but it also made it more popular than it was.



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1

Nautilus said:
SvennoJ said:

Ever heard of a little title called Myst?

My introduction to Atari was from people (adults) being so in awe of it they let us play with it to show how cool it was.

I'm not trying to downplay the role of Nintendo. I simply grew up in that era and never got a Nintendo console until I bought the N64 myself. My first introduction to Mario was on the game boy. The console simply was not popular where I lived, nor did video games need saving. Sierra was doing perfectly fine without Nintendo.

The thread title is, Did Nintendo save gaming. No, but they did make console gaming popular (home computers without a keyboard) and I guess contributed to the demise of the Commodore Amiga. Commodore went bankrupt in 1994 :/

The Amiga 500 came out just over 30 years ago, seeing as many as 6000 games released across its lifespan and that of its two immediate successors, the Amiga 600 and Amiga 1200. / A total of 715 known licensed game titles were released for the Nintendo Entertainment System (NES) during its life span.


I do understand where you are comming from, but your example comes from a personal experience of a regional occurance, whereas this debate revolves around gaming as a whole, in the whole world.

Bolded: There were adults that were fans of gaming, for sure, but the perception of the general public was that games was for kids. And that's the whole point. Enthusiasts exist everywhere and have different ages, but these discussion, about impacts to the industry and overall perception, is regarded against the overall public and/or society.

So yes, not only did Nintendo save gaming, but it also made it more popular than it was.

More popular sure.

Looking at best sellers, Populous released '89 on Amiga sold about 4 million copies, Super mario world released '90 sold about 20 million copies.
Myst, best selling PC game until the sims, sold 6 million copies.
Kings Quest V only sold half a million copies and was actually also released on the NES (but censored for violence and religious themes)

Save gaming, nah. Make it more popular, yes they did. They made it more kid friendly as well.



To be honest, my point is more so that the argument that it saved console gaming ignores the rest of the world and pretends it does not exist.

In Japan, the Famicom was already a thing in 1983. So we can safely assume the Japanese would have still played consoles like they did.

In Europe, the opposite was true, and there was no real console market. We can relatively safely assume that the Master System and NES would have sold just like they did; and that console gaming wouldn't have really taken off until the PSX.

So no. Console gaming at large was not saved. Europe's market was non-existant at the time and you cannot save something that does not exist. And Japan's market was unaffected.

Now I still think companies would have launched consoles in the US regardless (if you think a 350 million people market with tons of disposable income and little barriers to entry will be ignored, yeah that is not going to happen). Whether they catch on or not is of course the question but I do think companies would launch consoles in the US regardless.

Microsoft routinely launches Xbox consoles in Japan despite doing miserably. So why wouldn't Nintendo and Sega launch their consoles in the US even if they only sell 1-2 million?

But what really makes me angry is the claim that it saved console gaming at large, which it absolutely didn't. In the US it is at least debatable but not worldwide :P



Nautilus said:
SvennoJ said:

Ever heard of a little title called Myst?

My introduction to Atari was from people (adults) being so in awe of it they let us play with it to show how cool it was.

I'm not trying to downplay the role of Nintendo. I simply grew up in that era and never got a Nintendo console until I bought the N64 myself. My first introduction to Mario was on the game boy. The console simply was not popular where I lived, nor did video games need saving. Sierra was doing perfectly fine without Nintendo.

The thread title is, Did Nintendo save gaming. No, but they did make console gaming popular (home computers without a keyboard) and I guess contributed to the demise of the Commodore Amiga. Commodore went bankrupt in 1994 :/

The Amiga 500 came out just over 30 years ago, seeing as many as 6000 games released across its lifespan and that of its two immediate successors, the Amiga 600 and Amiga 1200. / A total of 715 known licensed game titles were released for the Nintendo Entertainment System (NES) during its life span.


I do understand where you are comming from, but your example comes from a personal experience of a regional occurance, whereas this debate revolves around gaming as a whole, in the whole world.

Bolded: There were adults that were fans of gaming, for sure, but the perception of the general public was that games was for kids. And that's the whole point. Enthusiasts exist everywhere and have different ages, but these discussion, about impacts to the industry and overall perception, is regarded against the overall public and/or society.

So yes, not only did Nintendo save gaming, but it also made it more popular than it was.

This will get written off as anecdotal as well, but my grandfather owned an Intellivision.  He was an avid golfer and bowler and had won many trophies, and Intellivision was known for having the most detailed looking/playing sports games of their time.  Mattel was the first console manufacturer to seek out licenses from professional sports associations (NFL Football, NHL Hockey, NBA Basketball, etc.). 

Two of the games my grandfather enjoyed playing the most were PGA Golf and PBA Bowling.  He had other games of course like Snafu, Advanced Dungeons & Dragons, Microsurgeon, Atlantis, Dracula, etc.  Anyway, this was a console that he bought for himself and played frequently, not just something that he would pull out of the closet when his grandkids came to visit.  I think if you look at the crux of the Intellivision's library, and the games that made it stand out apart from the Atari 2600, you can clearly see that it was not a console just for kids.  I'm not talking about just the sports games.  Play (or look up videos of) Microsurgeon or Utopia (credited as being a precursor to Sid Meir's Civilization) and tell me which audience those games were specifically targeting.  Children with short attention spans, or adults looking for a deeper mental challenge?  The Intellivision sold over 3 million consoles between 1979-1983, and carved out 20% of Atari's market by the time of the North American Video Game Crash.  Even the Intellivision ad campaigns are reminiscent of tactics Sega (and later Sony) used against Nintendo to show that the opposing console was "kids play" compared to theirs.



SvennoJ said:
Nautilus said:

I do understand where you are comming from, but your example comes from a personal experience of a regional occurance, whereas this debate revolves around gaming as a whole, in the whole world.

Bolded: There were adults that were fans of gaming, for sure, but the perception of the general public was that games was for kids. And that's the whole point. Enthusiasts exist everywhere and have different ages, but these discussion, about impacts to the industry and overall perception, is regarded against the overall public and/or society.

So yes, not only did Nintendo save gaming, but it also made it more popular than it was.

More popular sure.

Looking at best sellers, Populous released '89 on Amiga sold about 4 million copies, Super mario world released '90 sold about 20 million copies.
Myst, best selling PC game until the sims, sold 6 million copies.
Kings Quest V only sold half a million copies and was actually also released on the NES (but censored for violence and religious themes)

Save gaming, nah. Make it more popular, yes they did. They made it more kid friendly as well.

Yeah... It did save gaming, for sure.

As said before, if Nintendo didn't do it, someone else would, as entertainment is part of human culture. But many gaming companies went bankrupt at the time, and everything seemed bleak, then Nintendo came and proved once and for all that gaming had a future.

Myst, the game you kept going on about?It first launched in 1993 on MAC, many years AFTER Nintendo already launched the NES and saved gaming. Hell, the Super Nintendo was already out. Nintendo already brought back the industry and made it more popular than ever before that game you went on. The same was for this Populous.It launched way after the NES hit stores shelves everywhere, since the NES launched in 85 in the Americas and 86 in Europe. By then, the reputation to gaming was already restored and was already walking into it was today, so of course those games did well.

All your examples came after Nintendo fixed everything up. So yeah, they saved gaming.



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1