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Forums - General Discussion - Australia’s top climate scientist says “we are already deep into the trajectory towards collapse” of civilisation

VAMatt said:

I'm 40 years old. I recall pretty well the last 35 years of my life, and there has been a never-ending stream of impending climate emergency proclamations for those 35 years. It's always just a few years off. But those few years keep coming and going, any nothing serious ever happens.  Older people tell me that the same kind of thing was happening previous to the beginning of my memories in the early 80s. I know there was a big scare about global cooling before I was born. So, I put absolutely zero stock in the proclamations of so-called environmental experts.

That doesn't mean that I think environmental issues are unimportant. On the contrary, I think such issues are far too important to entrust to people or organizations that have been wrong about them over and over and over again.

What if science is wrong? Than everything is dandy. We don't have to worry about stupid weather n ship. The knowledge gathered in the quest to battle climate change helps to make our lifes more efficient, healthier, ecofriendly, less wasteful.

What if the naysayers are wrong? Let's end the whole charade? Let's take the chance...



Hunting Season is done...

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Zoombael said:
VAMatt said:

I'm 40 years old. I recall pretty well the last 35 years of my life, and there has been a never-ending stream of impending climate emergency proclamations for those 35 years. It's always just a few years off. But those few years keep coming and going, any nothing serious ever happens.  Older people tell me that the same kind of thing was happening previous to the beginning of my memories in the early 80s. I know there was a big scare about global cooling before I was born. So, I put absolutely zero stock in the proclamations of so-called environmental experts.

That doesn't mean that I think environmental issues are unimportant. On the contrary, I think such issues are far too important to entrust to people or organizations that have been wrong about them over and over and over again.

What if science is wrong? Than everything is dandy. We don't have to worry about stupid weather n ship. The knowledge gathered in the quest to battle climate change helps to make our lifes more efficient, healthier, ecofriendly, less wasteful.

What if the naysayers are wrong? Let's end the whole charade? Let's take the chance...

You seem to believe that there are no costs associated with this "quest to battle climate change".  On the contrary, the costs are massive.  They're the kind of costs that should only be paid if really necessary.  

Some of them may be necessary.  But, we can't tell, because we are continuously being told demonstrably incorrect stuff.  That's the problem that were discussing here.  Nobody is saying not to take the environment seriously.



sundin13 said:

Half the world was on fire for the last couple years and y'all out here like "Climate scientist have been predicting problems for years now and we've seen nothing!".

Yeah, but arsons has consistently been the leading causes of all of these fires. 



Sorry but no. I belive in the science and absolutely acknowledge that humans are driving accelerated climate change but the worst case scenarios outlined from the IPCC which is a consensus of studies has humans at the least risk and concern of being adversely affected by climate change by 2100. Really the worst that will happen is a reversals of the downward trends of famine and poverty, obviously this isn't good but its a very far cry from the doomsday alarmist OP.

Most climate studies have the projected rise in temperature halting in the 3 Celsius range assuming we do nothing to improve our situation. So not really sure where that 4 Celsius number is coming from. We actually have the potential with future technology and increased effort to reverse course to keep the rise in temperature to 1.5 Celsius.

Fusion will also be here in 20 years and change the world forever for the better with renewable energy, all the trends are pointing to it 

Basically the OP is just a series of absolute worst case scenarios run amuck.

Last edited by newwil7l - on 22 June 2020

Rab said:
Jabba89 said:

But which side of science will you believe?

Science still has human limitations, there are usually differing views even in the scientific community.

We also see science of the past being disproven in the present, this will continue to happen.

The current consensus view shared by over 90% is probably the rational view

We have little luxury in our musing, if the scientific consensus is wrong and we act we are saved no matter what, if the science is right and we don't act we are lost    

There's actually no scientific consensus at all that we are moving towards doosmday or that climate changes are even a thing we should be concearned about since we had natural cicles of heating and cooling on planet Earth since forever, it's an ongioing discussion. The media however has come to a consensus and will tell audience only the side they want to tell.



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DakonBlackblade said:
Rab said:

The current consensus view shared by over 90% is probably the rational view

We have little luxury in our musing, if the scientific consensus is wrong and we act we are saved no matter what, if the science is right and we don't act we are lost    

There's actually no scientific consensus at all that we are moving towards doosmday or that climate changes are even a thing we should be concearned about since we had natural cicles of heating and cooling on planet Earth since forever, it's an ongioing discussion. The media however has come to a consensus and will tell audience only the side they want to tell.

It's not open to discussion, hasn't been for a very long time https://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/ 

The Science https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/ 

People debating it now are just playing their fiddle on the Titanic 



sundin13 said:

Half the world was on fire for the last couple years and y'all out here like "Climate scientist have been predicting problems for years now and we've seen nothing!".

We could start having the scientists, media and ultra experts like greta not LYING about amazon fires for example. All that buzz because of the fires in amazon. Happens every year, every year, it is caused by droughts during a certain time of the year and used to be MUCH bigger in the past and nobody cared. Absolutely nobody.

Then all of a sudden there is right wing government in Brazil that cuts the money from ONGs in amazon and hell breaks loose.

Including the media and ultra expert greta showing the fire trends comparing only the last 2 or 3 years instead of the whole series so it would give the impression it was a global emergency.

Then in australia everybody stops talking about the fires once we get to the conclusion thebfires were actually caused by arson instead of natural causes.

Yeah... way to go science. The only thing they are achieving is making people like me, a moderate pro climate change person, lose all faith in any data provided and providing a lot of reasons for anti climate change people to prove their points.



EnricoPallazzo said:
sundin13 said:

Half the world was on fire for the last couple years and y'all out here like "Climate scientist have been predicting problems for years now and we've seen nothing!".

Then in australia everybody stops talking about the fires once we get to the conclusion thebfires were actually caused by arson instead of natural causes.

At least do some research instead of making stuff up https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-11/australias-fires-reveal-arson-not-a-major-cause/11855022

About 1% of the recent Australian fires was from arson 

So we are going to trust you over experts in their field.. not bloody likely  



Rab said:
EnricoPallazzo said:

Then in australia everybody stops talking about the fires once we get to the conclusion thebfires were actually caused by arson instead of natural causes.

At least do some research instead of making stuff up https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-11/australias-fires-reveal-arson-not-a-major-cause/11855022

About 1% of the recent Australian fires was from arson 

So we are going to trust you over experts in their field.. not bloody likely  

No problem, I was wrong then about Australia. Based on my perception when all the news about the fires there stopped when the arson news started to pop up. I see absolutely no problem I'm admitting I'm wrong, different than scientists and doomsday climate religious groups.

My point about amazon stands anyway, Im brazilian and I know exactly what Im talking about specially the political climate and the relation it had with the news.

And let's not even start talking about scientists and covid-19...

Again, this attitude only makes people like me, a moderate pro climate change person, just stop advocating for it. 

Good luck convincing the other 80% of the world.



EnricoPallazzo said:
Rab said:

At least do some research instead of making stuff up https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-11/australias-fires-reveal-arson-not-a-major-cause/11855022

About 1% of the recent Australian fires was from arson 

So we are going to trust you over experts in their field.. not bloody likely  

No problem, I was wrong then about Australia. Based on my perception when all the news about the fires there stopped when the arson news started to pop up. I see absolutely no problem I'm admitting I'm wrong, different than scientists and doomsday climate religious groups.

My point about amazon stands anyway, Im brazilian and I know exactly what Im talking about specially the political climate and the relation it had with the news.

And let's not even start talking about scientists and covid-19...

Again, this attitude only makes people like me, a moderate pro climate change person, just stop advocating for it. 

Good luck convincing the other 80% of the world.

I appreciate that

As far as being a "moderate pro climate person" I have to say that's far from being enough, so far all we have been is moderate and it isnt working, the consequences won't be moderate if we take little baby steps, if your house is on fire do you act moderately?

It's almost too late anyway, once the climate is out of our control there will be no more moderate anything, and then we will wish we did more