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Forums - Politics Discussion - (POSSIBLE SPOILERS INSIDE) The agenda and political discussion of Naughty Dog

 

Have politics damaged the quality of ND games

No 39 41.94%
 
Yes 54 58.06%
 
Total:93
forest-spirit said:

It takes a special kind of stupid to send death threats to voice actors because you're angry at a video game.

Jim Sterling's take on these morons:

Not reacting to these scum is the worst thing we could possibly do.  This kind of behaviour is in no way, shape or form acceptable and the more people calling it out the better as far as I'm concerned
.

Exactly, complacency only helps the oppressor and when wrong but easy answers carry easier than complicated but correct answers, it's important to take actions to educate and inform. Again, not doing anything only helps the ones who are actively oppressing others. 



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Runa216 said:
forest-spirit said:

It takes a special kind of stupid to send death threats to voice actors because you're angry at a video game.

Jim Sterling's take on these morons:

Not reacting to these scum is the worst thing we could possibly do.  This kind of behaviour is in no way, shape or form acceptable and the more people calling it out the better as far as I'm concerned
.

Exactly, complacency only helps the oppressor and when wrong but easy answers carry easier than complicated but correct answers, it's important to take actions to educate and inform. Again, not doing anything only helps the ones who are actively oppressing others. 

But you are not really taking actions to do something good for others,you educate no one and just repeat what the recievers already know, you give the haters the attention they seek and even worse is that you potentionally can take the control away from those that are justified of having control over it and that are able to actually do something helpfull for the VICTIM(you know,the one that should hold some more importance over your virtue) .



Immersiveunreality said:
forest-spirit said:

Not reacting to these scum is the worst thing we could possibly do.  This kind of behaviour is in no way, shape or form acceptable and the more people calling it out the better as far as I'm concerned.

When the reaction is important for the victim or make the idiots that make those threats think they can face consequences and stop doing these things as a result then yes,when it is just people putting their own emotions in front of the safety of the victims themselves then no.

Getting the police at their doorfront would be the best reaction and mostly the most silent in the beginning.

It would take a very serious threat for the police to get involved. Or do you seriously believe that someone writing "I will stab you" will get a visit by the police? And if they did, such actions by the police would get huge reactions from every defender of free speech out there. So not only would calling the cops only work for a handful of comments, it most certainly wouldn't do much keeping things silent either.

And what about people that write hateful comments without coming close to breaking any laws? Saying "I hope you and your family gets cancer and dies" isn't illegal but sure as fuck shouldn't be met with silence.



forest-spirit said:
Immersiveunreality said:

When the reaction is important for the victim or make the idiots that make those threats think they can face consequences and stop doing these things as a result then yes,when it is just people putting their own emotions in front of the safety of the victims themselves then no.

Getting the police at their doorfront would be the best reaction and mostly the most silent in the beginning.

It would take a very serious threat for the police to get involved. Or do you seriously believe that someone writing "I will stab you" will get a visit by the police? And if they did, such actions by the police would get huge reactions from every defender of free speech out there. So not only would calling the cops only work for a handful of comments, it most certainly wouldn't do much keeping things silent either.

And what about people that write hateful comments without coming close to breaking any laws? Saying "I hope you and your family gets cancer and dies" isn't illegal but sure as fuck shouldn't be met with silence.

Ofcourse not every hatecomment can be met with legal consequences but it is not something that has not been done before,and the most vile and disturbing that even attach their own personal information to such a comment can be targeted.

It is about what you do for the victim besides showing your own dislike for the haters publicly,if it does not help the victim it is just giving attention to the hate and do you really think that is such a selfless act?It is like telling a mob of white supremacists how they're pieces of shit for beating up a black guy while that dude is still within their reach but atleast you got the opportunity to vent about how you did not like it.

Most important thing to do right now is how to figure out how to not fuel this situation anymore for the sake of the victim,there can be enough decent discussion or calling out being held afterwards when it all has cooled down a bit.

Edit: Defenders of free speech do not need to be extremist,there is a certain line drawn everywhere like with free will.



forest-spirit said:
Immersiveunreality said:

When the reaction is important for the victim or make the idiots that make those threats think they can face consequences and stop doing these things as a result then yes,when it is just people putting their own emotions in front of the safety of the victims themselves then no.

Getting the police at their doorfront would be the best reaction and mostly the most silent in the beginning.

It would take a very serious threat for the police to get involved. Or do you seriously believe that someone writing "I will stab you" will get a visit by the police? And if they did, such actions by the police would get huge reactions from every defender of free speech out there. So not only would calling the cops only work for a handful of comments, it most certainly wouldn't do much keeping things silent either.

And what about people that write hateful comments without coming close to breaking any laws? Saying "I hope you and your family gets cancer and dies" isn't illegal but sure as fuck shouldn't be met with silence.

I dont think free speech defenders would oppose the police visiting a person that threatened to kill another person, especially for such an idiotic reason. As for myself I can certainly tell you I am all for it. 



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Immersiveunreality said:
forest-spirit said:

It would take a very serious threat for the police to get involved. Or do you seriously believe that someone writing "I will stab you" will get a visit by the police? And if they did, such actions by the police would get huge reactions from every defender of free speech out there. So not only would calling the cops only work for a handful of comments, it most certainly wouldn't do much keeping things silent either.

And what about people that write hateful comments without coming close to breaking any laws? Saying "I hope you and your family gets cancer and dies" isn't illegal but sure as fuck shouldn't be met with silence.

1) Ofcourse not every hatecomment can be met with legal consequences but it is not something that has not been done before,and the most vile and disturbing that even attach their own personal information to such a comment can be targeted.

2) It is about what you do for the victim besides showing your own dislike for the haters publicly,if it does not help the victim it is just giving attention to the hate and do you really think that is such a selfless act?It is like telling a mob of white supremacists how they're pieces of shit for beating up a black guy while that dude is still within their reach but atleast you got the opportunity to vent about how you did not like it.

3) Most important thing to do right now is how to figure out how to not fuel this situation anymore for the sake of the victim,there can be enough decent discussion or calling out being held afterwards when it all has cooled down a bit.

1) This still only takes care of the handful of comments that crosses the line to the point where it's possible to take legal action against them. The rest are left free to continue.

2) Showing dislike is a way of supporting the victim, telling that person that there is someone out there not only noticing the behaviour but also taking action against such behaviour. If these comments are met with silence you give the impression that the victim is alone and that no one cares.

In your example those bystanders have an opportunity to intervene against the white supremacists. In this case no one is within reach, unless you're present when the comment is being written, so you're left with the option to take action after the comment has been written and made public. So the two situations really aren't comparable.

3) So, just let people harass and spread hatred in peace while we "figure things out"? And I'm sure the victim will be grateful when people show up weeks afterwards to defend and show support and tweet about how terrible those comments where when it's no longer relevant and the harassers have moved on to hate on somebody else.



Immersiveunreality said:
Runa216 said:

Exactly, complacency only helps the oppressor and when wrong but easy answers carry easier than complicated but correct answers, it's important to take actions to educate and inform. Again, not doing anything only helps the ones who are actively oppressing others. 

But you are not really taking actions to do something good for others,you educate no one and just repeat what the recievers already know, you give the haters the attention they seek and even worse is that you potentionally can take the control away from those that are justified of having control over it and that are able to actually do something helpfull for the VICTIM(you know,the one that should hold some more importance over your virtue) .

Why is every response of yours to me some variation on how terrible it is to be proactive? 

"You jump to conclusions" you say, where I'm seeing patterns and nipping them in the bud before the heinous shit starts. Every time you respond to me, send me a PM, or otherwise interact with me, you're lecturing me on how I'm the bad guy or not helping because I feel the need to be proactively progressive, like that's a bad thing. Why do you have a problem with forward motion and progress? why do you want to stifle preventative measures? why do you work so hard to devalue hard work just because it's done preemptively? 

What? do you think we should all just ignore shit and wait till someone's dead to do anything? 

Oh, wait. that happened, and now look where we are. 

Please, for the love of fuck, stop trying to villainize me because I believe in taking action before it's too late. 

(For anyone other than ImmersiveUnreality who's confused about my post here, just know that he's PMed me in the past, wrote on my wall, and regularly posts things in response to me saying the above sorts of things. My response here is less in response JUST to what he's said here and more an overall reaction to a blossoming pattern I've seen in his responses to me. There's clearly a pattern of him trying to act like I'm misreading people's intentions and that I shouldn't jump to conclusions when I see the same bullshit talking points and subtle hate speech that is so prevalent lately.) 



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Hiku said:
EnricoPallazzo said:

I won't go into it because I'm sick and tired of angry people like you on the internet, going into this discussion will take it nowhere and just consume my time. You love the guy? Good for you. I think he is a hypocrite and full of himself this is my opinion and I have absolutely no obligation to explain it to an angry person looking for an argument like you. Go grab a beer or something and chill out.

As for reading between the lines I was very clear I was talking about Drunkmann and not you, you were very clear on your opinion that I was shitting on the game which I made clear it's not the case.

As a general rule of thumb, you need to be willing to explain your position on a comment you made. That's one of the reasons why I don't post everything that comes to mind.

You don't have to now if you don't think it'll be a productive discussion. But just keep it in mind for future reference.

Dont agree. Some people are just looking for a quote fight, not a healthy discussion about opinions and understanding other peoples thought and ideas. Especially agressive people. There is no reason on even starting a conversation with those.



vonny said:
iron_megalith said:

I just wanted to come back to this particular topic again just to post this.

First I will say the obvious that no one that worked in this project deserves any death threats at all. That's a pathetic thing to do. However I think it is also asinine to assume that majority of the people that hated the story would like a public lynching of anyone involved in producing this mess.

Now that that's out of the way, this once again proves my point as to why Druckmann is one of the problems of Naughty Dog as stated in my previous post. This guy found a way to make the matter about himself again(his work). It was extremely pompous of him to award his work with a tittle that it challenges conventions. It's the same behavior that he had in the previous years when things got heated.

I really think this guy is full himself.

Can you show me where he said his work? Clearly speaking on behalf of everyone that worked on the game over the last 5 years, your assumption are just painting a narrative you wont to exist. 

Indirectly he does refer to TLOU2 which is HIS project. What else can he be referring to?

Certainly TLOU1 or any other past projects is not the topic here.

Him saying his work challenges conventions is quite narcissistic of him. His statement about HIS project is subjective. You let your art do the talking and let the crowd judge and decide. This is him looking like a fool by unnecessarily exalting his work.

If he had just stuck with defending people's hard work in this project(which deserves to be recognized) without self proclaiming any titles, it would have been totally fine.

Last edited by iron_megalith - on 06 July 2020

iron_megalith said:
vonny said:

Can you show me where he said his work? Clearly speaking on behalf of everyone that worked on the game over the last 5 years, your assumption are just painting a narrative you wont to exist. 

Indirectly he does refer to TLOU2 which is HIS project. What else can he be referring to?

Certainly TLOU1 or any other past projects is not the topic here.

Him saying his work challenges conventions is quite narcissistic of him. His statement about HIS project is subjective. You let your art do the talking and let the crowd judge and decide. This is him looking like a fool by unnecessarily exalting his work.

If he had just stuck with defending people's hard work in this project(which deserves to be recognized) without self proclaiming any titles, it would have been totally fine.

Sure you wouldn't have made it sound bad anyway since you have been doing it on TLOU2 threads for almost all related to the game?

Considering the professional reviews and fan bomb reviews I would agree with him that the game subverted conventions and expectations. You are the one trying to say he is picking all the glory for himself.



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