The game would end up somewhat different, correct. The question, as Neil likes to ask, is how much would that change things overall? If the story get's to the same point eventually, what does a slightly shorter story or more useful filler story in between really matter?

Let's just say the Joel outcome could have remained the same but happened closer to the end, or could take place in the beginning portion of the third game. That doesn't mean it would be impossible for a similar Joel beating scene to take place, where Abby's group are forced to retreat and finish things later. It could easily be done in a manner that has Ellie go after them anyway. Joel eventually tries to catch up, etc. I'm not going to lay out every possible scenario they could have taken, but I don't think the one they chose was the best by far for the franchise overall. Depends what their ultimate goals are really.

Aloy kills all kinds of people along the way. You could easily say someone close to those 'bad guys' who were just trying to survive like everyone else, wants revenge against Aloy. Though you know darn well that's not what the story is going to be, because it would be hugely disappointing.

It's not like TLOU2 makes no sense whatsoever, though it certainly has flaws, it's who really thought this would be the direction the game would take if you hadn't been given hints or leaks while it was being developed? Even taking this direction, the timing and poor execution of the Joel scene is really surprising from my point of view.

I'll agree it's more unique, but it sort of comes out of nowhere. A game that goes from getting a girl to the fireflies to potentially come up with a cure, to chasing Abby down for revenge because of what she does, is quite unexpected.

That's not to say it makes it a bad direction automatically, and ND can do whatever they want, but to some people it's like ND turned the car around and decided on a new destination. Well some people already got in the car expecting Disneyland and they don't want to go to the Miami Speedway.

Whatcha gunna do when Abby/Ellie comes 4 you?

The third BB movie even more so in a way. Though the thing is they never fully go TLOU2 route because most people wouldn't accept it, especially because you definitely wouldn't expect that type of direction in the third film let alone the second.

I agree that ND can take TLOU franchise wherever they want, it's their choice, but if people aren't down with the direction, that's their choice as well.

At least the people who disagree aren't trying to cancel it...

Yes I meant third movie.

And people expect Joel to be dead ever since they asked for a sequel, saying it would even be Ellie that would kill him because of the lie and destroying hope. And then when all the reveals, trailers, etc missed Joel most speculation was that his was dead even before the start of the game. I needed no leak to suppose he was dead.

That was a possibility, I can't deny that, but did you also assume anything to do with the rest of the story in relation to Abby? Imagine if Ellie had killed Joel. How much different could the game have turned out by taking that direction?

If we could guess the whole game before it is even made there would be little point in making it.

The game would end up somewhat different, correct. The question, as Neil likes to ask, is how much would that change things overall? If the story get's to the same point eventually, what does a slightly shorter story or more useful filler story in between really matter?

Let's just say the Joel outcome could have remained the same but happened closer to the end, or could take place in the beginning portion of the third game. That doesn't mean it would be impossible for a similar Joel beating scene to take place, where Abby's group are forced to retreat and finish things later. It could easily be done in a manner that has Ellie go after them anyway. Joel eventually tries to catch up, etc. I'm not going to lay out every possible scenario they could have taken, but I don't think the one they chose was the best by far for the franchise overall. Depends what their ultimate goals are really.

If a game is made that doesn't sell well enough, not meeting expectations, maybe due to it's story, was it worth making?

My point is people have expectations in many different ways, and if they aren't met, typically there is some sort of backlash and at times someone or something pays the price. I'm not saying this is the case for TLOU2 either because it's way to early to compare expectations of overall sales vs units sold so far.

The game would end up somewhat different, correct. The question, as Neil likes to ask, is how much would that change things overall? If the story get's to the same point eventually, what does a slightly shorter story or more useful filler story in between really matter?

Let's just say the Joel outcome could have remained the same but happened closer to the end, or could take place in the beginning portion of the third game. That doesn't mean it would be impossible for a similar Joel beating scene to take place, where Abby's group are forced to retreat and finish things later. It could easily be done in a manner that has Ellie go after them anyway. Joel eventually tries to catch up, etc. I'm not going to lay out every possible scenario they could have taken, but I don't think the one they chose was the best by far for the franchise overall. Depends what their ultimate goals are really.

When it sold over 4M on the first weekend, but let's wait to see if it meets the spectations. And perhaps people expectation was in the wrong place if they wanted Joel alive. But as you said, only time will tell. For me is enough that I had a blast with the game.

A shorter story could have worked, but they can't make the changes you're suggesting without making an entirely different game.  And at that point, you're more asking for a game between TLOU and TLOU 2, not asking for a fix for TLOU 2. 

XB1 didn't sell all that bad right off the bat either. Early adoption is no guarantee of long term success.

If anyone who knew anything about the games development thought Joel definitely wouldn't bite the dust, then they definitely missed something.

Good to hear you enjoyed the game. It's a shame that some can't say the same. Maybe the pre launch story leak ruined it for them, who knows?

Well ya, it would be a smoother transition from TLOU into the most tragic parts of TLOU2. So it would be a slightly different game, but as long as the same core story is told eventually, even into Part III, did it have to be done in the manner that it was? Obviously not. There's more than one way to skin a cat. Now ND chose to do it that way, and that's fine, but I don't think it was the best approach. That doesn't mean it was the worst approach either.

I guess when people heard of the leaks and that it was filled with SJW stuff they decided internally to hate the game.