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Forums - Gaming Discussion - 8th Gen to 9th Gen: Visual Analysis Thread

Spindel said:

As someone that actually plays games I can tell you the differneces shown here will not be noticable while you play.

So you already played these games? Tell us more.

And please explain these implication of "actually plays games".



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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Spindel said:

As someone that actually plays games I can tell you the differneces shown here will not be noticable while you play.

Um, I imagine everyone here plays games. Irrelevant in a technical thread (read the OP again).



                                                                                                                                                           

I also agrees with most folks, the DR is real. But I was expecting this, that most games will look like Star wars Battlefront 2 on max graphics with 4k resolution on PC.

If we look at god of war which is probably the best looking game this gen, there's simply not much improvement you can make, mostly just higher res textures as the games textures are abit low, 60fps at 1440p and better view distancing (just way to much fog) and make Freyas hair look better. More than this you simply not gonna notice. More improvements game devs can make is to get rid of all the blurs (Bookah, depth of field, motion blur) as this just ruins the game. I also think there can be some improvements in AA too.



6x master league achiever in starcraft2

Beaten Sigrun on God of war mode

Beaten DOOM ultra-nightmare with NO endless ammo-rune, 2x super shotgun and no decoys on ps4 pro.

1-0 against Grubby in Wc3 frozen throne ladder!!

Trumpstyle said:

I also agrees with most folks, the DR is real. But I was expecting this, that most games will look like Star wars Battlefront 2 on max graphics with 4k resolution on PC.

If we look at god of war which is probably the best looking game this gen, there's simply not much improvement you can make, mostly just higher res textures as the games textures are abit low, 60fps at 1440p and better view distancing (just way to much fog) and make Freyas hair look better. More than this you simply not gonna notice. More improvements game devs can make is to get rid of all the blurs (Bookah, depth of field, motion blur) as this just ruins the game. I also think there can be some improvements in AA too.

You probably watched different trailers if you can't see the difference against God of War. Horizon 2 looks leaps above it.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:
Mnementh said:

Look at the images HollyGamer posted for R&C. The jump from PS2 to PS3 is so massive, the polygon count increased, the fur got fur texture, better lighting and much more details in the background. The difference is so noticable. Then to PS4 the difference is still there, especially details in the background, but overall less noticeable. And then again on PS5. Yes, technically the jump is still the same, but it is not anymore such a defining difference.

I think - as many people expressed - the thing that keeps people impressed is the fast transition in R&C. Which is really something. Also applying so much physics to general objects in the area. This both is a difference I think is much more important for gamers, it will make their experience much more enjoyable, interacting with the environment and fast transitions making the game spicier. The visual improvements may gommainly unnoticed.

And I am aware that different people work on different things. But for a company it means resources. If they put a different focus, you can hire more people for gameplay improvements. There is a major disproportion in the development teams. Look at the credits for really old games. I talk 90s games. Back then the team had about proportional workforce for graphics, music, programming, story and gameplay. But since then the teamsize for graphics grew disproportionally, while the other area saw only little growth in the allocated resources (aka manpower). Now the graphcis department makes often about 80% of the teamsize. Just bring it a bit more into balance.

Neither of the games that had good scores or good looks suffered on gameplay because they were pretty or had a lot of resources on it, that is just a fallacy throw for not liking the gameplay on that game. It is possible that these games that you don't like the gameplay had more resources put on gameplay than a Mario game that you like.

And I looked at the image, again the difference becomes more on the details and static images make it harder to see. But you naturally notices the differences and when getting used to it and go back to older you see that something is amiss. That happens to me all the time when I rewatch something of older gen that I found to be fantastic and now I can see the gaps.

I actually don't like Mario or Jump&Runs in general. You are assuming I am arguing down to you as a Nintendo fan willing to put down Sony. But I still feel as a DOS gamer in heart, I got away from gaming as the general direction was in a way that didn't mesh with me before Wii introduced me to console gaming. And I appreciate a console game as much as I did a good DOS game in the 90s. This is not about Nintendo or Sony or this crap. This is about games. And I appreciate that Sony does make good games. I don't think Horizon is a bad game, and R&C in the presentation looked outright awesome. But not because of graphics, but because of the other stuff that felt like a step ahead. And that is why I was impressed by Kena, but have worries about Project Athia.

Sony presented some good games, that is out of the question. But they are often good for other reasons than graphics. And diminishing returns are a reality, just look again at HollyGamers pictures of R&C through the gens and tell me the wow-effect is the same for the difference of the PS4/PS5-comparison, as it is for the PS2/PS3-comparison. Look through this thread how often people said that you should look at 4K-streams to see the difference. This all should tell you: people need to pay a lot more attention to notice and appreciate the differences in visuals, than was needed back then in PS2 gen. This simply is diminishing returns.

It is funny that multiple posters say they are not impressed, but others saying: just look at this detail or at a 4K-stream to see the difference, while at the same time denying that diminishing returns are relevant already. These posters that aren't impressed are simply a result of the diminishing returns. That happens. That some people have learned themself in looking at some visual details still notice the improvements does not change that. Because diminishing returns means less and less people are impressed.

And again, that is not a shot against Sony, the same is happening for XSX and Nintendo and PC and Stadia. Stadia also showed off what theoretical is possible (still not present in actual games), but I wasn't impressed. And the Stadia machines have very beefy hardware.



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Spindel said:

As someone that actually plays games I can tell you the differneces shown here will not be noticable while you play.

Do you refute what i'm capable of seeing? :p



Mnementh said:
DonFerrari said:

Neither of the games that had good scores or good looks suffered on gameplay because they were pretty or had a lot of resources on it, that is just a fallacy throw for not liking the gameplay on that game. It is possible that these games that you don't like the gameplay had more resources put on gameplay than a Mario game that you like.

And I looked at the image, again the difference becomes more on the details and static images make it harder to see. But you naturally notices the differences and when getting used to it and go back to older you see that something is amiss. That happens to me all the time when I rewatch something of older gen that I found to be fantastic and now I can see the gaps.

I actually don't like Mario or Jump&Runs in general. You are assuming I am arguing down to you as a Nintendo fan willing to put down Sony. But I still feel as a DOS gamer in heart, I got away from gaming as the general direction was in a way that didn't mesh with me before Wii introduced me to console gaming. And I appreciate a console game as much as I did a good DOS game in the 90s. This is not about Nintendo or Sony or this crap. This is about games. And I appreciate that Sony does make good games. I don't think Horizon is a bad game, and R&C in the presentation looked outright awesome. But not because of graphics, but because of the other stuff that felt like a step ahead. And that is why I was impressed by Kena, but have worries about Project Athia.

Sony presented some good games, that is out of the question. But they are often good for other reasons than graphics. And diminishing returns are a reality, just look again at HollyGamers pictures of R&C through the gens and tell me the wow-effect is the same for the difference of the PS4/PS5-comparison, as it is for the PS2/PS3-comparison. Look through this thread how often people said that you should look at 4K-streams to see the difference. This all should tell you: people need to pay a lot more attention to notice and appreciate the differences in visuals, than was needed back then in PS2 gen. This simply is diminishing returns.

It is funny that multiple posters say they are not impressed, but others saying: just look at this detail or at a 4K-stream to see the difference, while at the same time denying that diminishing returns are relevant already. These posters that aren't impressed are simply a result of the diminishing returns. That happens. That some people have learned themself in looking at some visual details still notice the improvements does not change that. Because diminishing returns means less and less people are impressed.

And again, that is not a shot against Sony, the same is happening for XSX and Nintendo and PC and Stadia. Stadia also showed off what theoretical is possible (still not present in actual games), but I wasn't impressed. And the Stadia machines have very beefy hardware.

I know that diminishing returns exist and the perceived jump is getting smaller, that isn't what I'm disputing. But that still doesn't make the gap from the two R&C that small. The game is still pre-Alpha and is already easy to see the general difference. Sure at first glance it may be reduced to more fur or the like, but when you see the two in movement at maximum quality the difference is noticeable.

I just put some of the games revealed for my wife to see and even on the 1080p presentation she said that it wouldn't run on PS4 (and didn't even need to show the crabs CGI used), and she doesn't understand the technical part she had that gut feeling just from the looks of the games she see me playing versus what was show.

Some of the users that aren't impressed say stuff like for then the level of graphics of PS3 is enough or that they can't see a difference from that to PS5 graphics in general and that the game would run there with small concessions, or that TW3 is almost on the same level among PS4Pro and Switch and that with DLSS Switch 2 will be about as equal IQ as PS5 and XSX. So it is very muddy water.

Stadia have a lot of issues that we don't need to discuss here =p

I understand that you aren't taking shots against Sony. But there isn't really a lack of investment on gameplay versus graphics. Sure the graphics got a lot of investment and need a lot of manpower to realize, but the gameplay isn't relegated because of that. The level design and gameplay elements are lot less manpower demanding than the execution of the graphics, so it isn't really a matter of lacking investiment. Would you say that a game like RDR2, GoW, UC, etc where they put hundred million dollars on the development they cheaped out on the gameplay? I can perfectly understand you not liking their gameplay or choices but that wasn't because they didn't invest. Similar stuff with AI, it have several issues and points to improve but it isn't because the CPU is just to weak or no investment is made. It is just harder and harder to impress and confuse us with the AI without making the game impossible to beat. That is because we have a lot of experience to know how to beat the AI.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:
Trumpstyle said:

I also agrees with most folks, the DR is real. But I was expecting this, that most games will look like Star wars Battlefront 2 on max graphics with 4k resolution on PC.

If we look at god of war which is probably the best looking game this gen, there's simply not much improvement you can make, mostly just higher res textures as the games textures are abit low, 60fps at 1440p and better view distancing (just way to much fog) and make Freyas hair look better. More than this you simply not gonna notice. More improvements game devs can make is to get rid of all the blurs (Bookah, depth of field, motion blur) as this just ruins the game. I also think there can be some improvements in AA too.

You probably watched different trailers if you can't see the difference against God of War. Horizon 2 looks leaps above it.

Horizon Forbidden West:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lq594XmpPBg

God of war:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0u_kAWLJOA

The different simply isn't big. Horizon Forbidden west failed to fix some issues atm, the trailer still has a lot of fog, most likely to hide the view distances, the tree leafs still looks flat.



6x master league achiever in starcraft2

Beaten Sigrun on God of war mode

Beaten DOOM ultra-nightmare with NO endless ammo-rune, 2x super shotgun and no decoys on ps4 pro.

1-0 against Grubby in Wc3 frozen throne ladder!!

Trumpstyle said:
DonFerrari said:

You probably watched different trailers if you can't see the difference against God of War. Horizon 2 looks leaps above it.

Horizon Forbidden West:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lq594XmpPBg

God of war:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0u_kAWLJOA

The different simply isn't big. Horizon Forbidden west failed to fix some issues atm, the trailer still has a lot of fog, most likely to hide the view distances, the tree leafs still looks flat.

Don't know what to tell you on Horizon 2 and GoW not showing a jump. But again you were discussing with CGI that his model looked worse than PS4 games.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:
Trumpstyle said:

Horizon Forbidden West:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lq594XmpPBg

God of war:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0u_kAWLJOA

The different simply isn't big. Horizon Forbidden west failed to fix some issues atm, the trailer still has a lot of fog, most likely to hide the view distances, the tree leafs still looks flat.

Don't know what to tell you on Horizon 2 and GoW not showing a jump. But again you were discussing with CGI that his model looked worse than PS4 games.

i'd use his model as background if she had a bit more fat on the bones



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