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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Xbox Series X: The Most Powerful and Compatible Next Gen System

SvennoJ said:
sales2099 said:

That’s all well and good but fact is LOU remake was the highest selling exclusive until Uncharted 4 in 2016. By a landslide...Bloodborne, Drive Club, The Order, Infamous SS didn’t come close. I’m sure there’s more but forgive me my off hand knowledge of competition exclusives is rusty.

That tells me quite a lot between what PS fans say on the internet and actual buying habits (next gen exclusives vs cross gen). 

The last of us released in June, ps4 released in November, ps4 version was confirmed in April. Perhaps people simply waited to play it on the ps4, just like I waited with GTA5 and will wait with Cyberpunk. Does that make me the intended audience for BC or for cross-gen releases :)

You can explain enough to write an essay. I’m talking cold hard results. LOU Remake sales speak for itself. As i said, the other next gen exclusives didn’t even come close. 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

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Pemalite said:
goopy20 said:

Even though I understand the reasoning behind it, I still think it's a terrible idea to hang your hat on cross-gen and compatibility alone, when launching a next gen console. We all know what these smart delivery games will look like. We've been seeing it on pc for decades. Sure, Gears 5 on ultra settings does look a helluva lot better than the base Xbox One version, but it's essentially still the exact same game. It has the same ai, level design, physics, assets variation etc. no matter which version you're playing.

The whole point of Sony's UE5 presentation was to demonstrate how the SSD opens up possibilities for a complete shift in core level design. Smart delivery games simply can't take full advantage of that until MS finally ditches support for the Xone 2 years later. Even then we don't know what kind of pc specs they will be supporting, though. I mean will the pc version of Gears 6 really require a RTX2080 and a super fast SSD, or will it also run on more common gpu's like the GTX1060 and "normal" SSD's? Because if it's the later, those games will also not be able to take full advantage of the Series X's hardware.

An RTX 2080 in 2 years time will be 4 years old. It will be old and out dated. - It might even be superior to the Xbox Series X.

Consequently the Geforce GTX 1060 will be 6 years old. - How long are cross-platform developers required to support old PC technology? Let alone mid-range or low-end parts?

Fact of the matter is, game engines are scalable, they can scale level design, physics, number of A.I characters and so forth... We saw this last generation when the PC build of frostbite games looked and played a generation ahead of the outgoing Xbox 360 and Playstation 3 consoles.


I know a RTX2080 is 2 years old already but that doesn't change the fact that only a very low percentage of pc gamers currently own one. I think the biggest issue for Series X is that MS is so pc centric this time around, instead of doing a hard reset like Sony is doing. Their big first party studios are already making games that are way more catered towards pc than console gamers like Gears Tactics, Wasteland 3, Flightsim etc. Its pretty obvious that PC gamers are their main focus now and the truth is that the average gaming rig still has a GTX1060 or lower in there. Will that change due time? Of course it will, but we have no idea if that will take 1 or 6 years. Especially when you consider that a 2-year-old RTX2080 still costs around $1000 where I live. 

That's why I've been saying for months that the 1 or 2 year cross gen support isn't set in stone. Its not about just the Xbox One, it's about when hardware like a RTX2080, Ryzen cpu and a 1TB NVME SSD will be main stream among pc gamers. Until that happens I'm sure we're not going to see any Series X exclusives pushing the console to its limits at a targeted 30fps and 1440p. Instead we will see Xbox games that'll run fine on something like a GTX1060, and will just run better on Series X.

Last edited by goopy20 - on 05 June 2020

Mr Puggsly said:
DonFerrari said:

And from those many very few will be buying their new console to play older games on it, crossgen sure they will play some (but the newer version) but very few will buy the new console to replay their old games.

Again, you miss the point.

Nobody is suggesting people are gonna buy 9th gen consoles just to play old games. However, many are going to spend time playing BC titles. Some might spend minutes, others may spend hundreds of hours playing BC titles.

Just listen to internationally renowned opera singer Enrico Pallazzo. Great games don't exactly lose relevance. He wants to play Half Life 2 and he's doing it on PS3. Its better on a X1X, but the PS3 version is still viable for a console port.

Ah I see you are a man of culture as well. So many people don't even know about my abilities in singing national anthems...

Yes it is a viable port but how I wish I could play it on Xbox One X. PS3 frame rate is really bad, loading times are terrible. I'm totally into BC specially if it can improve performance. Also several games from THIS generation will play so much better on the new one. Just finished Jedi Fallen order recently and while the game is great, framerate and resolution could be much better.

On a side note, I'm impressed as Episode 2 is good. Ep1 was a let down but 2 almost plays like a HL2 sequel.



goopy20 said:

I know a RTX2080 is 2 years old already but that doesn't change the fact that only a very low percentage of pc gamers currently have one.

Correct. Only a small percentage of PC gamers own one because it's high-end hardware not low-end or mid-range.
Tomorrows mid-range Aka, the Geforce 3060/3070 will likely match the RTX 2080 of today and that is going to be the bulk of hardware sold in the PC space.

goopy20 said:

I think the biggest issue for Series X is that MS is so pc centric this time around, instead of doing a hard reset like Sony is doing.

Microsoft has always been PC centric, their goal was always to bring the PC experience to console, that is what defined the OG Xbox with ports like Doom 3, Half Life 2, Halo, Fable, Forza, Morrowind and so forth.

Hard resets don't really happen anymore, we have a transitional period with any console hardware move, it took a few years for developers to drop the Xbox 360 and Playstation 3 despite there being a large fundamental shift in hardware architecture, something that isn't going to occur again this time around.
(It's still x86 and Graphics Core Next compatible instruction sets.)

goopy20 said:

PC gamers are obviously their main focus now and the truth is that the average pc gamers still has a GTX1060 or lower in their rig.

How sure are you about that? Last time I analyzed the Steam hardware statistics it was pretty good numbers.
But the other thing to remember is that Steam doesn't account for multiple GPU configurations or switchable graphics, so the numbers are skewed downwards.

Plus Steam isn't the entirety of the PC either.

The other thing with PC is that it isn't sinking all it's "Teraflops" into pushing 4k, the more common resolutions are 1080P and 1440P, so PC gamers can use more conservative hardware like the GTX 1060 and have better looking games than the Xbox One X.

goopy20 said:

Will that change due time? Of course it will, but we have no idea if that will take 1 or 6 years. Especially when you consider that a 2-year-old RTX2080 still costs around $1000 where I live. 

nVidia charges a premium. Expect no less.
But if you want the best graphics in gaming, yes even better than what the Playstation 4 Pro, Xbox One X, Playstation 5, Xbox Series X, the PC is where it will be at, has always been at and will always be at... So long as consoles use mid-range PC graphics hardware.

goopy20 said:

That's why I've been saying for months that the 1 or 2 year cross gen support isn't set in stone. Its not about just the Xbox One, it's about when hardware like a RTX2080 and a 1TB NVME SSD will be main stream among pc gamers.

SSD's are the norm on the PC for at-least the OS drive. - Why do PC's need a 1TB drive? The Playstation 5 doesn't have one? It also doesn't expedite memory transactions so has no performance benefits, unlike consoles the PC is also a memory rich environment, so it's reliance on storage is lessened.

NVME is gaining traction and sales, it's where the innovation and investment is right now.


















Last edited by Pemalite - on 05 June 2020

--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

goopy20 said:

Even though I understand the reasoning behind it, I still think it's a terrible idea to hang your hat on cross-gen and compatibility alone, when launching a next gen console. We all know what these smart delivery games will look like. We've been seeing it on pc for decades. Sure, Gears 5 on ultra settings does look a helluva lot better than the base Xbox One version, but it's essentially still the exact same game. It has the same ai, level design, physics, assets variation etc. no matter which version you're playing.

The whole point of Sony's UE5 presentation was to demonstrate how the SSD opens up possibilities for a complete shift in core level design. Smart delivery games simply can't take full advantage of that until MS finally ditches support for the Xone 2 years later. Even then we don't know what kind of pc specs they will be supporting, though. I mean will the pc version of Gears 6 really require a RTX2080 and a super fast SSD, or will it also run on more common gpu's like the GTX1060 and "normal" SSD's? Because if it's the later, those games will also not be able to take full advantage of the Series X's hardware.

Yes yes complete shift in level design thanks to SSD. And yet it played out like any generic action game would have from the last two gens, complete with narrow corridor wall squeeze. 

You continue to ignore the fact that this engine you’re praising for a tech demo, is designed to scale all the way down to smartphones and tablets LOL. Come on.

And you’re still parroting nonsense about MS supporting cross gen two+ years after XSX launches. How long is a max of two years from November 2019? Seems like November 2021 to me. Again, max. 

If they were to continue cross gen past that then the only reason would be that it’s a huge success and gamers are enjoying the value. Try to be less optimistic please.



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Pemalite said:
goopy20 said:

I know a RTX2080 is 2 years old already but that doesn't change the fact that only a very low percentage of pc gamers currently have one.

Correct. Only a small percentage of PC gamers own one because it's high-end hardware not low-end or mid-range.
Tomorrows mid-range Aka, the Geforce 3060/3070 will likely match the RTX 2080 of today and that is going to be the bulk of hardware sold in the PC space.

goopy20 said:

I think the biggest issue for Series X is that MS is so pc centric this time around, instead of doing a hard reset like Sony is doing.

Microsoft has always been PC centric, their goal was always to bring the PC experience to console, that is what defined the OG Xbox with ports like Doom 3, Half Life 2, Halo, Fable, Forza and so forth.

Hard resets don't really happen anymore, we have a transitional period with any console hardware move, it took a few years for developers to drop the Xbox 360 and Playstation 3 despite there being a large fundamental shift in hardware architecture, something that isn't going to occur again this time around.
(It's still x86 and Graphics Core Next compatible instruction sets.)

goopy20 said:

PC gamers are obviously their main focus now and the truth is that the average pc gamers still has a GTX1060 or lower in their rig.

How sure are you about that? Last time I analyzed the Steam hardware statistics it was pretty good numbers.
But the other thing to remember is that Steam doesn't account for multiple GPU configurations or switchable graphics, so the numbers are skewed downwards.

Plus Steam isn't the entirety of the PC either.

The other thing with PC is that it isn't sinking all it's "Teraflops" into pushing 4k, the more common resolutions are 1080P and 1440P, so PC gamers can use more conservative hardware like the GTX 1060 and have better looking games than the Xbox One X.

goopy20 said:

Will that change due time? Of course it will, but we have no idea if that will take 1 or 6 years. Especially when you consider that a 2-year-old RTX2080 still costs around $1000 where I live. 

nVidia charges a premium. Expect no less.
But if you want the best graphics in gaming, yes even better than what the Playstation 4 Pro, Xbox One X, Playstation 5, Xbox Series X, the PC is where it will be at, has always been at and will always be at... So long as consoles use mid-range PC graphics hardware.

goopy20 said:

That's why I've been saying for months that the 1 or 2 year cross gen support isn't set in stone. Its not about just the Xbox One, it's about when hardware like a RTX2080 and a 1TB NVME SSD will be main stream among pc gamers.

SSD's are the norm on the PC for at-least the OS drive. - Why do PC's need a 1TB drive? The Playstation 5 doesn't have one? It also doesn't expedite memory transactions so has no performance benefits, unlike consoles the PC is also a memory rich environment, so it's reliance on storage is lessened.

NVME is gaining traction and sales, it's where the innovation and investment is right now.


















I agree that the RTX3060 will probably match the 2080, but the question is really how much Nvidia and AMD's new "low end' cards will cost? If it's $400 or more, I don't expect the bulk of pc gamers to upgrade, and MS 1st party making games that take full advantage of that kind of hardware anytime soon. And while it's true that 1080p is still the most common resolution on pc, it doesn't mean that all next gen console games should, and will target native 4k. We've already seen the UE5 tech demo probably pushing the ps5 pretty hard at 30fps/1440p.

Some might want to downplay that UE5 demo, saying that it looks like a typical current gen game but we both know that's not the case. There's a reason why that tech demo got the reactions it did and why MS's "optimized for Series X" showcase felt so lackluster in comparison. A Hard reset is exactly what Sony is doing with ps5 and whether their launch games will be any good or not, all their exclusives could potentially take full advantage of the ps5 hardware, while that isn't really possible with MS's multiplatform/ cross gen approach. I mean look at Halo Infinite. What kind of pc specs do you think we'll need to run that game in similar settings as the Series X version in 1440p? We'll see but I'm sure that's not going to require a RTX2080, Ryzen cpu and a NVME SSD. 

Last edited by goopy20 - on 05 June 2020

LudicrousSpeed said:
goopy20 said:

Even though I understand the reasoning behind it, I still think it's a terrible idea to hang your hat on cross-gen and compatibility alone, when launching a next gen console. We all know what these smart delivery games will look like. We've been seeing it on pc for decades. Sure, Gears 5 on ultra settings does look a helluva lot better than the base Xbox One version, but it's essentially still the exact same game. It has the same ai, level design, physics, assets variation etc. no matter which version you're playing.

The whole point of Sony's UE5 presentation was to demonstrate how the SSD opens up possibilities for a complete shift in core level design. Smart delivery games simply can't take full advantage of that until MS finally ditches support for the Xone 2 years later. Even then we don't know what kind of pc specs they will be supporting, though. I mean will the pc version of Gears 6 really require a RTX2080 and a super fast SSD, or will it also run on more common gpu's like the GTX1060 and "normal" SSD's? Because if it's the later, those games will also not be able to take full advantage of the Series X's hardware.

Yes yes complete shift in level design thanks to SSD. And yet it played out like any generic action game would have from the last two gens, complete with narrow corridor wall squeeze. 

You continue to ignore the fact that this engine you’re praising for a tech demo, is designed to scale all the way down to smartphones and tablets LOL. Come on.

And you’re still parroting nonsense about MS supporting cross gen two+ years after XSX launches. How long is a max of two years from November 2019? Seems like November 2021 to me. Again, max. 

If they were to continue cross gen past that then the only reason would be that it’s a huge success and gamers are enjoying the value. Try to be less optimistic please.

I think you just don't grasp what the UE5 demo showcased. It wasn't to show what the engine could do, it was to show what the engine is capable of when you have a game that's completely optimized for the ps5. It wasn't something running in native 4k and 120fps that could be down scaled to the Switch at 1080p/30fps. It was designed to look as good as possible by targeting 1440p and 30fps, while taking full advantage of the ps5's hardware.

Like I said, the max 2 years of cross gen titles isn't written in stone, it'll be completely dependent on how fast common gaming pc's will evolve. If the average gaming pc still has a GTX1060, 4 years from now, that will be the base hardware their 1st party studios will be targeting. And if the masses don't have NVME SSD's, Series X games also can't take full advantage of it. Maybe there is value in MS's approach, but not if you buy a next gen console and expect to be blown away by next gen games, designed specifically for Series X.



“completely optimized for PS5”

“1440p and 30fps” lol. By the way it wasn’t even really 1440p it was a scaling resolution. This was optimized especially for PS5? Pretty obvious why it was just a tech demo. Also none of what you said has anything to do with the engine scaling up or down for different devices. Again, UE5 will make games from the most powerful PC hardware all the way down to tablets and smartphones.

Your take on PC gaming is even more laughable than your delusions regarding XSX. Look up what minimum requirements means. Also load up your phones calendar and see what a maximum of two years from November 2019 means. Hope that helps.



SvennoJ said:
Too bad I don't have any XBox One games, and sold or gave away most of my original XBox and 360 games. BC is great when you have a big library, but it won't entice new players or those that skipped an XBox generation. Great effort, but I'll stick to my laptop for any BC needs.

I'm in this boat.  I feel like this is great for those that have loved the XBOX brand and stuck with it through the ups and downs.  I know quite a few of those.

I on the other hand, excepting HALO from back when I actually played some FPS games, have pretty much exclusively played RPGs.  I know there has been some exclusive gems in XBOX history (and present), but i've always struggled mightily to buy non-exclusives on XBOX rather than PlayStation.

I have an XBONE and yet I have only Halo 5 and the Halo Collection.  I am seriously considering giving up altogether on XBOX this next gen and only getting the PS5.



A warrior keeps death on the mind from the moment of their first breath to the moment of their last.



dharh said:
SvennoJ said:
Too bad I don't have any XBox One games, and sold or gave away most of my original XBox and 360 games. BC is great when you have a big library, but it won't entice new players or those that skipped an XBox generation. Great effort, but I'll stick to my laptop for any BC needs.

I'm in this boat.  I feel like this is great for those that have loved the XBOX brand and stuck with it through the ups and downs.  I know quite a few of those.

I on the other hand, excepting HALO from back when I actually played some FPS games, have pretty much exclusively played RPGs.  I know there has been some exclusive gems in XBOX history (and present), but i've always struggled mightily to buy non-exclusives on XBOX rather than PlayStation.

I have an XBONE and yet I have only Halo 5 and the Halo Collection.  I am seriously considering giving up altogether on XBOX this next gen and only getting the PS5.

If the trend they have with ther games quantity and quality contunius, you will be one of many. They can promise all they want. But they have yet to show anything of substance so most are in the pessimism camp. 



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.