Forums - Gaming Discussion - Unreal 5 Demo vs Series X Reveal

Which event got you more impressed?

Xbox Series X Gameplay Event 25 27.17%
 
Unreal Engine 5 PS5 Demo 67 72.83%
 
Total:92
goopy20 said:

You seem like a knowledgeable guy, but I also never understood why you always have to go out of your way to downplay consoles and bring up pc superiority. Yes, if you slap 4 2080 Ti's and 20 SSD's in a pc it's going to be more powerful than a PS7, but what's the point if no developer is going to support it? The problem with pc has never been about a lack of powerful hardware, it's about what people are actually buying so it will get support from developers. Unfortunately, the Crysis days are behind us and I can't think of any AAA developer that's making games specifically for high-end pc hardware anymore. In fact, I can't think of any pc game that doesn't run at high settings on a 6-year-old GTX970 and a normal hdd. 

Right now, something like a 2080 Ti is great for playing in native 4k and 120fps, but most people don't care for that. Maybe it stings a little but tell me honestly that you weren't impressed with that Ureal 5 demo, even though its running on a console? Nobody is saying it can't run on pc, but the demo was so impressive because it's the first time that we finally got to see what a RTX2080 can do when you have a "game" that's specifically designed for it, instead of just running current gen games in 4k and a high fps. As both a pc and console gamer, I think this is great and can't wait to see that kind of tech finally getting supported on pc. 

I feel like there's some contradiction in your overall post here, because for one:

You're claiming he's downplaying consoles, when all he's doing is posting straight up facts, and you and others seem to take great offence to this, often resorting to the price argument.

You then go on to claim that PC can have all the hw in the world, but that it'll never be used in a "meaningful way", but consoles will, claiming like that's a straight up fact and totally not trying to downplay the opposite platform. It goes two ways, not one way, bud.

Then at the end, you're tossing in the "I'm from both camps, but totally not bias, not in the way Pem is!", and claim you're excited to see what this tech could do on PC's, yet your earlier comment before states that it doesn't matter what PC packs, because it'll never be realised, according to your own beliefs, so really that ends up contradicting what you say at the end, because going by your logic, this fancy "new" tech will never be "properly" realised on PC, because "devs don't bother pushing PC", and yet Pem has shown us multiple times, even CGI, another mod, has shown us that PC can still be pushed in numerous ways.

I just find this so tiresome, because I'm watching multiple folk trying to argue against two knowledgeable mods, one of which actually works with the tech and higher end hw, who actually does know more than most of you on here, but ya'll try to act like you've got 10 degrees worth of wiki knowledge on hw and tech. You're woefully outclassed and yet you refuse to admit this. There's a very valid reason why I hardly bother to contest the two of them, because I myself know and admit that I am not within their league of knowledge, and don't want to just spew pointless jargon. I know those two know what's up, and I respect them for that, I don't know why some of you here cannot see that.



                                       

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LudicrousSpeed said:
I see there’s still plenty of kool aid left in the bowl.

Also he isn’t downplaying consoles by stating facts and usually you guys prompt him for his input anyway. And I gotta laugh at the idea that he’s supposed to do a 1:1 comparison with hardware that isn’t out yet for software that won’t be in use for another year, by which point all of this will be even more moot.

I mean, this seems to become the general consensus when it comes to PC's being brought into console discussions, be it tech, price or brand/games. Any time a PC has a fact brought to the table it must somehow be deemed wrong or "biased" against another platform, or that it "doesn't matter, because it'll never be used meaningfully anyway", and that itself is wholly disingenuous.

I'm still wondering why some folk get upset, when someone brings in an actual dose of modern day reality to the table. Does it shatter the illusion marketing has hand crafted over the past few years?, likely, but I feel like it's needed, because taking PR speak as gospel will only make the rush of reality a more crushing blow to someone who took that PR as truth. 



                                       

LudicrousSpeed said:

More like I have four F150’s that tow way more than yours. And if the discussion is about how towing more at once can get you better results then I guess it’s completely relevant and useful. After all you have people in the thread who actually believe this demo is only possible on PS5 and would have to be downgraded to run elsewhere. 

Nothing wrong with him pointing out that it’s nonsense. Maybe y’all should just stop engaging him if you’re tired of him shutting y’all down?

I cannot stress the bold text enough.

If some of ya'll here don't like CGI or Pem putting you down with hw facts, then simply do not bother posting in these threads, and just focus on the pure gaming ones instead. Trying to challenge someone who holds more clout/knowledge than yourself, is only going to get you hurt mentally, ego, pride and all. Some of you can keep "challenging" them all you want, but it'll only make the entertainment value more entertaining to watch. Like watching a toddler trying to debate with Einstein. 



                                       

Otter said:

(...)

End point is, this is a marketing discussion and sony branding the UE5 showcase generated far more excitement in me than anything MS has presented, so sony played their cards right there after the complete misfire of the GDC talk. Lets see what happens next.

Indeed, it's marketing. Essentially, the return of blast processing.

Sega's Genesis/Mega Drive had only one advantage over the SNES, its faster CPU (~7Mhz for Sega, ~3.5Mhz for Nintendo). The SNES chipset outclassed the Genesis in all other metrics. Just about the only practical application of the better CPU was faster scrolling which Sega advertised Sonic with. However, faster scrolling rarely served a purpose in games because high speeds meant that players were more watching than actually playing the game, simply because it wouldn't be possible to adequately react in time.

The PS5's SSD is very, very similar. It grants a benefit to a sequence like the canyon dive in the UE5 demo where the game moves fast, but there aren't many games that would actually implement such speeds, if for no other reason than it wouldn't fit the theme of the game in question. Regardless, it's a showcase that provides a talking point and ammo for the console wars for a fanbase that needed one after the specs of both consoles had been roughly disclosed.



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goopy20 said:

Totally agree. BF3 was basically a different game on pc compared to the ps3/360 versions when those consoles just came out. Historically speaking, consoles have always been outdated the moment they launched compared to a main stream pc of that time. However, even you have to agree that's not looking to be the case next gen. This is the first time ever that consoles launch that are on par, and in case with the SSD, even exceed high end gaming pc's. 

Battlefield 3 came out in 2011 towards the end of the 7th gen console cycle.

nVidia will release it's next-gen GPU's before the next-gen consoles launch.. Something we need to keep in mind.

nVidia at the moment is beating AMD despite AMD being on 7nm and nVidia only 12nm. (Which is just a refined TSMC 16nm process which in turn is based on 20nm but with Finfet and a change to the BEOL/FEOL.)
There is a reported 4x increase in Ray Tracing performance, 20 teraflops of compute and 40GB of Ram @1.6TB/s for the Ampere/A100 chip from nVidia with a whopping 54~ billion transistors. - That could end up being paired up with GDDR6 with adjusted clocks for the next Titan, definitely being used for compute/servers/professional scenarios.

Either way, the PC will be a step up over the Playstation 5 and Xbox Series X when next-gen consoles eventually release as the PC will have new GPU's released.

The consoles only have a mid-range 8-core Ryzen CPU (Granted is still damn impressive.) with only 6-7 for actual gaming.
12 and 16 cores are readily available and are the high-end offerings these days on the PC with 24-32-48-64 etc' core CPU's being workstation/enthusiast grade.

The SSD in the Playstation 5 will certainly beat your run of the mill SSD in any PC, but an Enthusiast PC will always be in another league from consoles.

But the PC's SSD's are also larger, 32-256GB SSD's are budget rubbish usually using a couple of NAND chips at most.
512GB SSD's are pretty entry level, 960-1TB SSD's are about your mid-range, 2TB SSD's are fairly high-end with 4TB drives as enthusiast.

Ram wise... 4GB is netbook trash.
8GB is low-end, 16GB is mid-range, 32GB is high-end, 64GB-256GB is Enthusiast and so on.

But for the price of a console, I think all the manufacturers have struck a good balance, Nintendo prioritized portability, Microsoft prioritized compute, Sony prioritized storage.

The question remains... Which games will be a reflection of those strengths and weaknesses?

eva01beserk said:

How dare thouse peasants be exited about trash we discarded 10 years ago that cost us 50k at the time. Let's put them in their place. 

There's a rumor that a cure for cancer is available in secret for the rich for millions. If it ever comes to the masses at an affordable price should we also laugh at them? 

Yes. Yes we should.

goopy20 said:

You seem like a knowledgeable guy, but I also never understood why you always have to go out of your way to downplay consoles and bring up pc superiority. Yes, if you slap 4 2080 Ti's and 20 SSD's in a pc it's going to be more powerful than a PS7, but what's the point if no developer is going to support it? The problem with pc has never been about a lack of powerful hardware, it's about what people are actually buying so it will get support from developers. Unfortunately, the Crysis days are behind us and I can't think of any AAA developer that's making games specifically for high-end pc hardware anymore. In fact, I can't think of any pc game that doesn't run at high settings on a 6-year-old GTX970 and a normal hdd. 

Because the PC does have the technical superiority? Let's not sugar coat it, downplay it or lie about it.

A high-end PC will beat the Playstation 5, Xbox Series X, Nintendo Switch in every single aspect, in every single scenario. Those are the undeniable facts.

A Playstation 5/Xbox Series X will beat a low-end PC and are probably competitive with a mid-range rig that gets sold later this year, those are also the facts.

goopy20 said:

Right now, something like a 2080 Ti is great for playing in native 4k and 120fps, but most people don't care for that. Maybe it stings a little but tell me honestly that you weren't impressed with that Ureal 5 demo, even though its running on a console? Nobody is saying it can't run on pc, but the demo was so impressive because it's the first time that we finally got to see what a RTX2080 can do when you have a "game" that's specifically designed for it, instead of just running current gen games in 4k and a high fps. As both a pc and console gamer, I think this is great and can't wait to see that kind of tech finally getting supported on pc. 

I have already stated my impressions about the demo.. And yes I was impressed as overall it's a damn impressive presentation and I am excited.
I have said all along that the Xbox Series X and Playstation 5 offer solid and compelling hardware.

Don't twist my words or intentions to be something they aren't.

Also the demo in question isn't leveraging the RT cores or DLSS there is still untapped potential left on the table to bolster image quality... And that truly makes me moist.

HollyGamer said:

Well that's why me and him always keep  arguing  about consoles VS PC. Not because i am defending consoles but how most of people downplaying the tech behind consoles. He still don't understand what the meaning of consoles for gaming industry and the impact for gaming industry overall. 

I am fair guy i put credit where the credit goes  weather it's PC , Mobile phones , handled , PC , VR or Server streaming like Stadia when it comes to technology.  

False.

I also give credit where credit is due, you just choose to ignore it seems. I have consistently praised the Xbox Series X and Playstation 5's hardware since their specifications got revealed. Did you not take note of that?

HollyGamer said:

Yup, Xbox series X design has more PC DNA and old way of thinking. It's  priority are closer to desktop GPU on the way it handling the graphic 

PS5 in the other way try to revolutionize how the games are made and using different approach, that's why many developer praise it. Cerny is game developer on it's heart and prioritizing on how game development rather then just power and power. 

They are both based on PC technology.
They are both semi-custom PC's.

They both have strengths and weaknesses.

They are both solid pieces of hardware that is worthy of a purchase.

Cerny has a conflict of interest, he has an interest to drive console sales, So does Phil Spencer, hence why I take whatever their statements are with a grain of salt and prefer more impartial sources like Anandtech or Digital Foundry, that removes any fundamental bias.



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The funny thing about this conversation about PC Vs next-gen console is... that a today $2000 PC will play exactly the same games of a $399 / $499 Playstation5 or XSex at a similar level of quality :D

And the other funny thing is that 95% of the todays PC gamers have an hardware far inferior to next-gen consoles! (source Steam)

So, when 51% of PC gamers will have a superior hardware then we can speak about PC technical superiority "in general" ;)



Hynad said:
Pemalite said:

SSD's by their very design utilize a group of smaller drives/memory chips. Memory transactions are parallel in nature.
This just takes it one step further... And proves that the PC still has the absolute edge in terms of SSD performance over consoles, if you are willing to pay for it that is.

And I have praised the Xbox Series X and Playstation 5's SSD's on multiple occasions on this forum.
I have praised both consoles on their solid hardware choices, that they are both solid pieces of hardware kit, perhaps you have only chosen to read what you wanted to read?

It's also no secret that I am a PC gamer first and foremost and I have absolutely no bias towards any console platform as at the end of the day, they are all just PC's anyway.

I said when compared to PC. The SSD solution in the PS5 is unlike anything currently available for PC. But you can't admit it and say you laugh at people who think that it's better than what's on PC. You have to bring a RAID setup to make PC look better, when the case is about one to one comparison, and I'm sure you know that. Yet here you are saying you laugh at people...

You always do that. You always bring up the argument that if you throw 10k on a rig, you can trump anything. Well, no shit. That doesn't make PC SSDs better than what the PS5 brings to the table. It's like if, for example, a GPU in whatever console is better than anything currently on the market, but you'd say the best PC GPU is better because you can put two or more [of those weaker GPUs] together to beat that one GPU. It's completely disingenuous.

It would be like someone claiming that one car have the most powerfull engine petrol engine ever at 1000hp, and someone brings a counter that another car have 4 electric motor that together deliver 1200hp and say that the other person was lying.

Cerny was lying, Sweeney is lying, Digital Foundry is lying, everyone is lying.



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LudicrousSpeed said:
DonFerrari said:

And let's ignore the blatant lie of "Unreal Engine 5 was revealed for XboxSeriesX". As I said, I just remembered one official MS page claiming some PS4 exclusives were Xbox One games.

Uh how is that a lie? UE5 is not PS5 exclusive. It will be used on XSX, it will just look and run better. The tweet acknowledges that it is PS5 footage. 

It might look and run better on some fronts and not on other fronts,you're misleading yourself when you think it WILL look and run better on Xbox.



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kirby007 said:
he said she said it said

I said.

1. We all keep it civil in here (not directed specifically at you Kirby, just playing on your words because is sounded good).

2. Consoles will never have an overall advantage over PC.

If either of these are difficult for you to understand why,

ask 1). any VGC moderator.

ask 2). any technically proficient VGC member.

Last edited by SpokenTruth - on 15 May 2020

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