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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Dreamcast vs Original Xbox

 

I prefer...

Dreamcast 45 51.14%
 
Original Xbox 43 48.86%
 
Total:88
curl-6 on 07 May 2020
Farsala said:
curl-6 said:

It couldn't quite match PS2 graphically but I feel it could hold its own as in remaining respectably close, not that many PS2 games look better than Soul Calibur IMHO.

It is undeniable though that the PS2 was harder to develop for than the DC (and GC/Xbox). With that, we can praise the architecture of the DC. DC developers could more easily reach peak performance for the games.

I still wonder though, if DC has been supported longer, how far could it have been pushed. Even consoles that are easy to develop for tend to advance graphically over time as tools, engines, and rendering techniques get better. PS2 did eventually pull ahead, but it had a lot more time to advance. Considering the DC is earlier tech I find it impressively competitive.



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COKTOE on 07 May 2020
HollyGamer said:

Well i Choose Xbox original over Dreamcast, but Peter moore the one who brought Xbox 360 glory in 2009 love Dreamcast . My point is that even on Xbox division most are them are related to Sega and place their loyalty to Microsoft as new home.  

Wow. Peter Moore is jacked. I always thought he looked like the devil. Or at least in a few photo shoots. Like this one.

And apparently, someone agrees with me, because it took almost zero time to find this.

It's a close call for me on this one. Love the Dreamcast, but going with Xbox. Crazy gen. Maybe the best ever.



- "If you have the heart of a true winner, you can always get more pissed off than some other asshole."

Farsala on 07 May 2020
curl-6 said:
Farsala said:

It is undeniable though that the PS2 was harder to develop for than the DC (and GC/Xbox). With that, we can praise the architecture of the DC. DC developers could more easily reach peak performance for the games.

I still wonder though, if DC has been supported longer, how far could it have been pushed. Even consoles that are easy to develop for tend to advance graphically over time as tools, engines, and rendering techniques get better. PS2 did eventually pull ahead, but it had a lot more time to advance. Considering the DC is earlier tech I find it impressively competitive.

I would have been more interested in GC or Xbox for that, but then the 360 released very soon after. PS2 was simply in the sweet spot of not too early or too late, launching by itself after PS1.  Here are some examples of the Dreamcast falling a bit too short compared to the others, while the PS2 keeps it close enough, and even has the best processor (aside from PC).

System Dreamcast (1998)[12] NAOMI (1998)[13] PC (1998) PC (1999) PlayStation 2 (2000) GameCube (2001) Xbox (2001)
Geometry processor Hitachi SH-4
(200 MHz)		 Hitachi SH-4
(200 MHz)		 Intel Pentium II
(450 MHz)		 Intel Pentium III 800EB
(800 MHz)[n 1]		 Emotion Engine
(294.912 MHz)		 ATI Flipper
(162 MHz)[n 2]		 Nvidia NV2A
(233 MHz)[n 3]
Matrix
transformations
[n 4]		 Matrix FLOPS 1.4 GFLOPS[n 5] 1.4 GFLOPS 230 MFLOPS[n 6] 1.1 GFLOPS[n 7] 5.5 GFLOPS[n 8] 7.5 GFLOPS[n 9] 5.8 GFLOPS[n 10]
MACs/sec 800 million[n 11] 800 million 130 million[n 12] 420 million[n 13] 2 billion[n 14] 3 billion[n 15] 2 billion[n 16]
Vertices 50 MVertices/s[n 17] 50 MVertices/s 8.4 MVertices/s[n 18] 47 MVertices/s[n 19] 140 MVertices/s[n 20] 162 MVertices/s[n 21] 116 MVertices/s[n 22]
Perspective transformations 16 MVertices/s[n 23] 16 MVertices/s 2.6 MVertices/s[n 24] 11 MVertices/s[n 25] 80 MVertices/s 160 MVertices/s[n 26] 110 MVertices/s[n 27]
Lighting 1 light source 14 MPolygons/s[n 28] 14 MPolygons/s 2 MPolygons/s[n 29] 7.2 MPolygons/s[n 30] 39 MPolygons/s[n 31] 90 MPolygons/s[n 32] 46 MPolygons/s[n 33]
4 light sources 6.8 MPolygons/s 6.8 MPolygons/s 1.1 MPolygons/s[n 34] 5.8 MPolygons/s[n 35] 9.8 MPolygons/s[n 36] 20 MPolygons/s[n 37] 16 MPolygons/s[n 38]
Rendering processors PowerVR CLX2
(100 MHz)		 PowerVR2
(100 MHz)[n 39]		 2x Voodoo2 (SLI)
(90 MHz)[n 40]		 Neon 250
(125 MHz)		 Voodoo3 SE
(200 MHz)[n 41]		 GeForce 256
(120 MHz)		 Graphics Synthesizer
(147.456 MHz)		 Flipper
(162 MHz)		 NV2A
(233 MHz)


Leynos on 07 May 2020
Farsala said:
curl-6 said:

It's worth noting the Xbox is 3 years newer than Dreamcast in terms of hardware so naturally its more powerful, but DC was an absolute beast for its time and could hold its own against the PS2 graphically despite releasing 2 years earlier.

The DC couldn't really hold its own against the PS2 graphically, and it launched 1 year and 4 months earlier.

2 years. DC launched 1998 in Japan. Overall yes PS2 was a stronger machine but DC did do somethings better than PS2. Had better video memory and had much better textures than PS2. Grandia II one of the most famous examples. Looks worse on PS2. Ecco looks darker and more blurry on PS2. Dreamcast maxed at 3 million PPS with textures.lighting etc. Where a game like Racht and Clank was 6 million PPS and that was prob PS2 max with textures lighting etc.

Last edited by Leynos - on 07 May 2020

Bite my shiny metal cockpit!

Farsala on 07 May 2020
Leynos said:
Farsala said:

The DC couldn't really hold its own against the PS2 graphically, and it launched 1 year and 4 months earlier.

2 years. DC launched 1998 in Japan. Overall yes PS2 was a stronger machine but DC did do somethings better than PS2. Had better video memory and had much better textures than PS2. Grandia II one of the most famous examples. Looks worse on PS2. Ecco looks darker and more blurry on PS2. Dreamcast maxed at 3 million PPS with textures.lighting etc. Where a game like Racht and Clank was 6 million PPS and that was prob PS2 max with textures lighting etc.

PlayStation 2

  • JP: March 4, 2000

Dreamcast

  • JP: November 27, 1998

Actually I was wrong, more like 1 year 3 months and change.



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curl-6 on 07 May 2020
Farsala said:
curl-6 said:

I still wonder though, if DC has been supported longer, how far could it have been pushed. Even consoles that are easy to develop for tend to advance graphically over time as tools, engines, and rendering techniques get better. PS2 did eventually pull ahead, but it had a lot more time to advance. Considering the DC is earlier tech I find it impressively competitive.

I would have been more interested in GC or Xbox for that, but then the 360 released very soon after. PS2 was simply in the sweet spot of not too early or too late, launching by itself after PS1.  Here are some examples of the Dreamcast falling a bit too short compared to the others, while the PS2 keeps it close enough, and even has the best processor (aside from PC).

System Dreamcast (1998)[12] NAOMI (1998)[13] PC (1998) PC (1999) PlayStation 2 (2000) GameCube (2001) Xbox (2001)
Geometry processor Hitachi SH-4
(200 MHz)		 Hitachi SH-4
(200 MHz)		 Intel Pentium II
(450 MHz)		 Intel Pentium III 800EB
(800 MHz)[n 1]		 Emotion Engine
(294.912 MHz)		 ATI Flipper
(162 MHz)[n 2]		 Nvidia NV2A
(233 MHz)[n 3]
Matrix
transformations
[n 4]		 Matrix FLOPS 1.4 GFLOPS[n 5] 1.4 GFLOPS 230 MFLOPS[n 6] 1.1 GFLOPS[n 7] 5.5 GFLOPS[n 8] 7.5 GFLOPS[n 9] 5.8 GFLOPS[n 10]
MACs/sec 800 million[n 11] 800 million 130 million[n 12] 420 million[n 13] 2 billion[n 14] 3 billion[n 15] 2 billion[n 16]
Vertices 50 MVertices/s[n 17] 50 MVertices/s 8.4 MVertices/s[n 18] 47 MVertices/s[n 19] 140 MVertices/s[n 20] 162 MVertices/s[n 21] 116 MVertices/s[n 22]
Perspective transformations 16 MVertices/s[n 23] 16 MVertices/s 2.6 MVertices/s[n 24] 11 MVertices/s[n 25] 80 MVertices/s 160 MVertices/s[n 26] 110 MVertices/s[n 27]
Lighting 1 light source 14 MPolygons/s[n 28] 14 MPolygons/s 2 MPolygons/s[n 29] 7.2 MPolygons/s[n 30] 39 MPolygons/s[n 31] 90 MPolygons/s[n 32] 46 MPolygons/s[n 33]
4 light sources 6.8 MPolygons/s 6.8 MPolygons/s 1.1 MPolygons/s[n 34] 5.8 MPolygons/s[n 35] 9.8 MPolygons/s[n 36] 20 MPolygons/s[n 37] 16 MPolygons/s[n 38]
Rendering processors PowerVR CLX2
(100 MHz)		 PowerVR2
(100 MHz)[n 39]		 2x Voodoo2 (SLI)
(90 MHz)[n 40]		 Neon 250
(125 MHz)		 Voodoo3 SE
(200 MHz)[n 41]		 GeForce 256
(120 MHz)		 Graphics Synthesizer
(147.456 MHz)		 Flipper
(162 MHz)		 NV2A
(233 MHz)

It is worth noting, theoretical performance metrics like FLOPS don't always translate to real world perfomance. But yeah, PS2 had more grunt then DC, but fell significantly behind the more modern GPUs of Xbox/GC.

I still think DC is really impressive for its time of release though; despite being older than PS2 it had some advantages and its best looking games top most of PS2's output, even if the maximum ceiling was higher on PS2.



DonFerrari on 07 May 2020
curl-6 said:
Rafie said:

Right. We all know the OG Xbox was the strongest back then, but man the Dreamcast was just stellar. I think Sega can compete if they re-entered the console business again.

It's worth noting the Xbox is 3 years newer than Dreamcast in terms of hardware so naturally its more powerful, but DC was an absolute beast for its time and could hold its own against the PS2 graphically despite releasing 2 years earlier.

DC released on November 98, PS2 on march 2000 (so less than 1,5 years instead of 2 year gap), Xbox November 2001 (so over 1,5 year older than PS2).



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curl-6 on 08 May 2020
DonFerrari said:
curl-6 said:

It's worth noting the Xbox is 3 years newer than Dreamcast in terms of hardware so naturally its more powerful, but DC was an absolute beast for its time and could hold its own against the PS2 graphically despite releasing 2 years earlier.

DC released on November 98, PS2 on march 2000 (so less than 1,5 years instead of 2 year gap), Xbox November 2001 (so over 1,5 year older than PS2).

My point still stands, DC predates the other 6th gen systems by a significant span and was a monster for its time of release, even able to go up against the newer PS2.



LivingMetal on 08 May 2020

Dreamcast = Gamers
X-box = Business "solution"



Leynos on 08 May 2020
curl-6 said:
DonFerrari said:

DC released on November 98, PS2 on march 2000 (so less than 1,5 years instead of 2 year gap), Xbox November 2001 (so over 1,5 year older than PS2).

My point still stands, DC predates the other 6th gen systems by a significant span and was a monster for its time of release, even able to go up against the newer PS2.

Shenmue and Sonic Adventure were mindblowing in 99. Magazines would not shut up how good Grandia II looked graphically in 2000 before launch. Shenmue looked better than Half-life on PC and Soul Cal looked better on DC than in arcades. So indeed it was a very impressive system when it came out.  I have some old magazines telling people Shenmue was not pre-rendered CGI. Another magazine explaining why the screenshots of Sonic Adventure was real-time and not CGI. Another one was explaining how Dreamcast was going to have physics in games. At the time it was a foreign concept. We were used to scripted events. One game that was canned late but was shown off for DC was called Geist Force. Calling itself Star Fox for Adults. It had physics and environments could be destroyed in a more real way. What is done is out there to download. DC got a lot of PC ports, mostly middleware western titles.



Bite my shiny metal cockpit!