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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Final Fantasy VII Remake Angry Joe Review!

JWeinCom on 30 April 2020
The_Liquid_Laser said:
The Fury said:

One of my biggest things I've been talking about to my friends recently is just simply this. I'm not playing FF games anymore. I'm not spending my money and time on them. From 97 to the start of the PS3 gen (I a HD TV for FF13) all I basically did was play FF games. Even into the 2010s I replayed them, purchased the remasters of X, 12 and recently 8.

Since the 'press x to play' game that was 13, I've not purchased a new FF game in now over a decade (13 came out in March 2010... and there was only 1 to choose from :P). I've got more disposable income now than ever before and they aren't making my favourite game series for me to give them my money. I had no interest in button masher FF15 with 4 characters and no colour and I lost interest in this "remake" as soon as they said no ATB, it had stagger and the narrative of the first mission was different.

Alas, holding on to them making a game in the vein of their heyday I think is done now. I've got big hopes for FF16 but then, how long will we wait for what might just be another button masher?

Two things changed.  1) Sakaguchi left (the FF creator), and 2) Squaresoft became Square-Enix.  I believe development on FF X started before either of these things happened which is why it is such a good game.  The games haven't been the same since.  I even like, to varying degrees, some of the FF games that came later, but they definitely aren't the same, and there is no going back.  All I can say is that I haven't played the Lost Odyssey yet, so I still have that to look forward to, but after that I won't be seeing the old FF magic anymore.

Also, just want to say that this is the best review I've seen so far of FF7 Remake.

Yeah, but FF8 was made before all that, so they were perfectly capable of making garbage before any of the changes.



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The Fury on 30 April 2020
The_Liquid_Laser said:

Two things changed.  1) Sakaguchi left (the FF creator), and 2) Squaresoft became Square-Enix.  I believe development on FF X started before either of these things happened which is why it is such a good game.  The games haven't been the same since.  I even like, to varying degrees, some of the FF games that came later, but they definitely aren't the same, and there is no going back.  All I can say is that I haven't played the Lost Odyssey yet, so I still have that to look forward to, but after that I won't be seeing the old FF magic anymore.

Both true, and luckily, even though I would say FF12 isn't as FF as other titles, it's still a superb game as it was made by the Ivalice team (who don't exist anymore sadly). The merge was the start of things going down hill, I have always known that but I do find it strange that they aren't trying to look at why 6-10 heyday was so good and not looking to that to get their influences to create the next generation of the FF games. Looking at FF7"Remake" combat, they looked at more modern FF games and other series instead, things like button mashing and stagger made it into a remake of a game that had none of that. These were things people liked from previous entries? Really?



Hmm, pie.

DonFerrari on 30 April 2020
JWeinCom said:
The_Liquid_Laser said:

Two things changed.  1) Sakaguchi left (the FF creator), and 2) Squaresoft became Square-Enix.  I believe development on FF X started before either of these things happened which is why it is such a good game.  The games haven't been the same since.  I even like, to varying degrees, some of the FF games that came later, but they definitely aren't the same, and there is no going back.  All I can say is that I haven't played the Lost Odyssey yet, so I still have that to look forward to, but after that I won't be seeing the old FF magic anymore.

Also, just want to say that this is the best review I've seen so far of FF7 Remake.

Yeah, but FF8 was made before all that, so they were perfectly capable of making garbage before any of the changes.

Still there are plenty of FF fans that consider FF VIII the best ever for who knows what reason.

The Fury said:
The_Liquid_Laser said:

Two things changed.  1) Sakaguchi left (the FF creator), and 2) Squaresoft became Square-Enix.  I believe development on FF X started before either of these things happened which is why it is such a good game.  The games haven't been the same since.  I even like, to varying degrees, some of the FF games that came later, but they definitely aren't the same, and there is no going back.  All I can say is that I haven't played the Lost Odyssey yet, so I still have that to look forward to, but after that I won't be seeing the old FF magic anymore.

Both true, and luckily, even though I would say FF12 isn't as FF as other titles, it's still a superb game as it was made by the Ivalice team (who don't exist anymore sadly). The merge was the start of things going down hill, I have always known that but I do find it strange that they aren't trying to look at why 6-10 heyday was so good and not looking to that to get their influences to create the next generation of the FF games. Looking at FF7"Remake" combat, they looked at more modern FF games and other series instead, things like button mashing and stagger made it into a remake of a game that had none of that. These were things people liked from previous entries? Really?

Companies usually looks at what is current or the future instead of looking to the past. Even more when they look at how much the old were selling and how the sales are trending now.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

The Fury on 30 April 2020
DonFerrari said:

Companies usually looks at what is current or the future instead of looking to the past. Even more when they look at how much the old were selling and how the sales are trending now.

How much is those sales based on name and expectation? I'm on websites like this, I look and know what I expect from Final Fantasy and saw what they were doing with 15 and this and decided that even if the gameplays were good, they weren't what I wanted in a Final Fantasy game. 13 came out in 2009/2010, after 6 years you don't expect a lot of people to give in to hype of 15 and buy it regardless?

People crave new entries in big game series and, currently, FF fans are being starved so I expect sales to be high.

I'm excited for FF16 even though I was extremely disappointed with 13, didn't buy 15 or this game and I adore FF enough to have bought the HD versions of FFX, 12 and the recent FF8. I'm looking forward to FF16 and may well buy it on that alone, because of what I expect from a Final Fantasy game, as in a Final Fantasy game as that weirdly isn't being met with the 1 game they released in a decade (15).

I'm likely to buy the next Tekken, I've bought every one since 2 and played 1. Even bought the bound-tastic mess that was Tag 2. Yet I had no interest in SF x Tekken because the gameplay wasn't Tekken's, it was SFs. I wnt to play a FF game that feels like FF, not KH but currently they seem to be scare to do that and sales of new FF are high because they are FF games.

This is getting weird to talk about because no matter how much I talk about it I end up repeating myself (to you, my friends, everyone) because I don't like the idea that I, as a fan of FF, am not their target audience anymore. Kids wanting to play non-thinking button mashers and Battle Royales are, not the 30 year old with huge amounts of disposable income. :P



Hmm, pie.

FormerlyTeamSilent13 on 30 April 2020

As someone who never played the original I found this game best because I didn't know much going into it. This review does spoil some things that I wouldn't want spoiled in its little moments that are funny or unexpected. The demo already exists which will give you a taste of what this game offers. I would avoid all reviews and just go off your opinions on the demo if you are on the fence. I am going to be avoiding future spoiler discussions because several that I watched already spoiled moments that happen after Midgar. If you are playing the game and not sure what is going on with the story just search up "The deepest dive" by a group called the MinMaxShow. They go in depth with the game in chunks of several chapters and also do a great job at not spoiling things that happened after Midgar in the original game.



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DonFerrari on 30 April 2020
The Fury said:
DonFerrari said:

Companies usually looks at what is current or the future instead of looking to the past. Even more when they look at how much the old were selling and how the sales are trending now.

How much is those sales based on name and expectation? I'm on websites like this, I look and know what I expect from Final Fantasy and saw what they were doing with 15 and this and decided that even if the gameplays were good, they weren't what I wanted in a Final Fantasy game. 13 came out in 2009/2010, after 6 years you don't expect a lot of people to give in to hype of 15 and buy it regardless?

People crave new entries in big game series and, currently, FF fans are being starved so I expect sales to be high.

I'm excited for FF16 even though I was extremely disappointed with 13, didn't buy 15 or this game and I adore FF enough to have bought the HD versions of FFX, 12 and the recent FF8. I'm looking forward to FF16 and may well buy it on that alone, because of what I expect from a Final Fantasy game, as in a Final Fantasy game as that weirdly isn't being met with the 1 game they released in a decade (15).

I'm likely to buy the next Tekken, I've bought every one since 2 and played 1. Even bought the bound-tastic mess that was Tag 2. Yet I had no interest in SF x Tekken because the gameplay wasn't Tekken's, it was SFs. I wnt to play a FF game that feels like FF, not KH but currently they seem to be scare to do that and sales of new FF are high because they are FF games.

This is getting weird to talk about because no matter how much I talk about it I end up repeating myself (to you, my friends, everyone) because I don't like the idea that I, as a fan of FF, am not their target audience anymore. Kids wanting to play non-thinking button mashers and Battle Royales are, not the 30 year old with huge amounts of disposable income. :P

I didn't say you were wrong. I just said that companies try to follow current trends (even in other genres), just look at RE big change from RE3 to RE4 and then it changing even more to action until RE6 with sales increasing on 5 and bombing on 6 and thus they returning to roots on 7 and deciding to make de remakes for 2 and 3.

So when the sales of FF drops in sale they may look at it again and return to what was classic, until them they will try and go for what is trending, and it is action RPG unfortunately.

For sure I would love for FF XVI to look more like FF IX, but I don't think that will be the case. Stiill I even liked FF XV but yes it wasn't FF.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

The_Liquid_Laser on 30 April 2020
The Fury said:
The_Liquid_Laser said:

Two things changed.  1) Sakaguchi left (the FF creator), and 2) Squaresoft became Square-Enix.  I believe development on FF X started before either of these things happened which is why it is such a good game.  The games haven't been the same since.  I even like, to varying degrees, some of the FF games that came later, but they definitely aren't the same, and there is no going back.  All I can say is that I haven't played the Lost Odyssey yet, so I still have that to look forward to, but after that I won't be seeing the old FF magic anymore.

Both true, and luckily, even though I would say FF12 isn't as FF as other titles, it's still a superb game as it was made by the Ivalice team (who don't exist anymore sadly). The merge was the start of things going down hill, I have always known that but I do find it strange that they aren't trying to look at why 6-10 heyday was so good and not looking to that to get their influences to create the next generation of the FF games. Looking at FF7"Remake" combat, they looked at more modern FF games and other series instead, things like button mashing and stagger made it into a remake of a game that had none of that. These were things people liked from previous entries? Really?

I think they need a FF game to really tank in sales in order to get a wake up call.  My favorite series have always been Zelda and FF.  The best thing to happen to Zelda was actually Skyward Sword, because the sales of it were so disappointing.  It was a serious wake up call to Nintendo.  "Hey we are losing one of our key series here."  The result was Breath of the Wild.

While long time fans of FF can tell the series has seriously gotten off track, it is still selling well enough that Square-Enix thinks the games are just fine.  They really need FF16 to be a total flop.  They need a wake up call to tell them to get back to their roots.  Until that happens, they are just going to continue on this same track and not correct themselves.



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Scoobes on 30 April 2020
The Fury said:
The_Liquid_Laser said:

Two things changed.  1) Sakaguchi left (the FF creator), and 2) Squaresoft became Square-Enix.  I believe development on FF X started before either of these things happened which is why it is such a good game.  The games haven't been the same since.  I even like, to varying degrees, some of the FF games that came later, but they definitely aren't the same, and there is no going back.  All I can say is that I haven't played the Lost Odyssey yet, so I still have that to look forward to, but after that I won't be seeing the old FF magic anymore.

Both true, and luckily, even though I would say FF12 isn't as FF as other titles, it's still a superb game as it was made by the Ivalice team (who don't exist anymore sadly). The merge was the start of things going down hill, I have always known that but I do find it strange that they aren't trying to look at why 6-10 heyday was so good and not looking to that to get their influences to create the next generation of the FF games. Looking at FF7"Remake" combat, they looked at more modern FF games and other series instead, things like button mashing and stagger made it into a remake of a game that had none of that. These were things people liked from previous entries? Really?

Honestly, the battle system in the remake is probably one of the best I've played in a JRPG for a long time and certainly the best in the series. Yes, it's real-time (I'd argue semi-turn-based) but the actual strategy and depth of it amazes me. The button mashing is solely a method (one of a few) to fill up the ATB, abilities are unique to each character and designed to complement each other, and it really doesn't pay to just go for the most powerful spell every time as you're more likely to end up in trouble. The materia system is refined and balanced (it places limits on certain materia) forcing you to truly plan which materia to utilise for a given fight.

I haven't been a fan of the combat systems in any of the Final Fantasy games since X. But the system here is as if they learnt every lesson from every game since VII, and just kept the best bits. The result is far more strategic and challenging than the original ever was.




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Scoobes on 30 April 2020
The_Liquid_Laser said:
The Fury said:

Both true, and luckily, even though I would say FF12 isn't as FF as other titles, it's still a superb game as it was made by the Ivalice team (who don't exist anymore sadly). The merge was the start of things going down hill, I have always known that but I do find it strange that they aren't trying to look at why 6-10 heyday was so good and not looking to that to get their influences to create the next generation of the FF games. Looking at FF7"Remake" combat, they looked at more modern FF games and other series instead, things like button mashing and stagger made it into a remake of a game that had none of that. These were things people liked from previous entries? Really?

I think they need a FF game to really tank in sales in order to get a wake up call.  My favorite series have always been Zelda and FF.  The best thing to happen to Zelda was actually Skyward Sword, because the sales of it were so disappointing.  It was a serious wake up call to Nintendo.  "Hey we are losing one of our key series here."  The result was Breath of the Wild.

While long time fans of FF can tell the series has seriously gotten off track, it is still selling well enough that Square-Enix thinks the games are just fine.  They really need FF16 to be a total flop.  They need a wake up call to tell them to get back to their roots.  Until that happens, they are just going to continue on this same track and not correct themselves.

Arguably, in terms of rocky and lengthy development and the associated costs, FFXIII was their Skyward Sword moment. They ended up making a further two games in the series to make use of the ridiculous number of assets that never made it into the original game to help maintain profit from the initial investment. 

Their answer to that was... er... Final Fantasy XV which sold almost as well as FFX. I don't see them moving from this track anytime soon.




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Scoobes on 30 April 2020
The Fury said:
DonFerrari said:

Companies usually looks at what is current or the future instead of looking to the past. Even more when they look at how much the old were selling and how the sales are trending now.

How much is those sales based on name and expectation? I'm on websites like this, I look and know what I expect from Final Fantasy and saw what they were doing with 15 and this and decided that even if the gameplays were good, they weren't what I wanted in a Final Fantasy game. 13 came out in 2009/2010, after 6 years you don't expect a lot of people to give in to hype of 15 and buy it regardless?

People crave new entries in big game series and, currently, FF fans are being starved so I expect sales to be high.

I'm excited for FF16 even though I was extremely disappointed with 13, didn't buy 15 or this game and I adore FF enough to have bought the HD versions of FFX, 12 and the recent FF8. I'm looking forward to FF16 and may well buy it on that alone, because of what I expect from a Final Fantasy game, as in a Final Fantasy game as that weirdly isn't being met with the 1 game they released in a decade (15).

I'm likely to buy the next Tekken, I've bought every one since 2 and played 1. Even bought the bound-tastic mess that was Tag 2. Yet I had no interest in SF x Tekken because the gameplay wasn't Tekken's, it was SFs. I wnt to play a FF game that feels like FF, not KH but currently they seem to be scare to do that and sales of new FF are high because they are FF games.

This is getting weird to talk about because no matter how much I talk about it I end up repeating myself (to you, my friends, everyone) because I don't like the idea that I, as a fan of FF, am not their target audience anymore. Kids wanting to play non-thinking button mashers and Battle Royales are, not the 30 year old with huge amounts of disposable income. :P

Honestly, I don't see us getting an old-school JRPG with a mainline final fantasy budget again, or at least until one of the medium budget titles starts selling numbers that approach mainline Final Fantasy numbers. 

Having said that, Persona is starting to get close in sales and recognition, so you never know. A classic Final Fantasy/JRPG resurgence could be on the cards.




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