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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Nintendo banned Square from their offices for 10 years after FFVII went to PlayStation. EDIT: japanese business model is akin to Yakuza

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What do you think

Nintendo is God they never make a mistake 7 26.92%
 
Square the ones who to be blame 8 30.77%
 
I dont why i just hate Sony 2 7.69%
 
I 9 34.62%
 
Total:26

Imagine stabbing Nintendo in the back, than expect to walk into thier offices.. i dont get the point.

Last edited by Azzanation - on 13 April 2020

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Leynos said:
SanAndreasX said:

Yamauchi did extend an olive branch to Square in the mid 00s by investing money in a Square shell corporation, Game Designer Studio, which got FF Crystal Chronicles released on the Gamecube, published by Nintendo. Pretty sure the Square Enix merger helped too. Nintendo always had a better relationship with Enix than Square. Even now, Nintendo tends to favor Dragon Quest over Final Fantasy. 

Square, meanwhile, built the PS1 and then collapsed under its own weight in a few short years, especially after their disastrous foray into movie-making. :(

Which they never gave up on. Advent Children and Kingsglaive. Sakaguchi was gone soon after and FF has not reached those heights again in quality. Tho I liked 12. 13 sucked. XV is blah. Kinda funny Tak and Guchi leave Square and IMO since made better RPGs than any FF game since that time. Lost Odyssey. The Last Story. Xenoblade. Then again Taks vision of Final Fantasy VII eventually got spun into its own IP. Xenogears which is easily one of the best RPGs on PS1.

They gave up on it, those movies are just part of the afterthought. Though in fairness, their CGI has always been among the best in the business, if not the very best. Real time graphics too. FFXIII was crazy in its day, XV as well, and the jump between the latter and VII Remake is insane. 



My bet with The_Liquid_Laser: I think the Switch won't surpass the PS2 as the best selling system of all time. If it does, I'll play a game of a list that The_Liquid_Laser will provide, I will have to play it for 50 hours or complete it, whatever comes first. 

Sure turned out well for Nintendo. They dominated the 5th and 6th generation of home consoles....
In all honesty, I noticed that all 3 companies when through a period of extreme arrogance and then a well-learned (hopefully) humbleness. Nintendo did this in the late 90's, Sony a decade later and MS a decade afterwards.... it seems that this is needed for every console manufacturer who stayed in business.



Vote the Mayor for Mayor!

Ka-pi96 said:
padib said:

But what happened with Square was very much a mistake on Square and on Sony's part.

You can argue about who to blame and what not, but that's not even remotely true.

It was a resounding success for Sony in every regard. Absolutely not a mistake in any way, shape or form.

It was a massive success for Square too. If you change business partners and the end result is you rolling in money... how on earth is that a mistake?

So, Square did that by their own will, blame on Nintendo alone? OK

Xxain said:
padib said:

@Ka-pi96, it should be patently obvious that I'm talking about business ethics, not popularity or marketshare.

Yes we know. Nintendo's was terrible back in the day.

Terrible to 3rd parties, not to their fans, look at NES and SNES. Also, that is over 20 years ago, and now, the most present exam is how Sony treat their vita fan base after summer 2014 till now.



Just business decisions, no need to be bitter. Sony never went full aggro when FF13 went multiplat with XboX. And Square returns the favor/sentiment by having FF7 Remake ps timed exclusive. Some respect right there.



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padib said:

@Ka-pi96, it should be patently obvious that I'm talking about business ethics, not popularity or marketshare.

Even in business ethics it wasn't a mistake. There's nothing ethically questionable about choosing not to do business anymore with a company that insists on dictating their own terms and instead doing business with a company that gives you more respect/freedom. There was no "betrayal", they didn't "owe" Nintendo anything.



HoangNhatAnh said:

So, Square did that by their own will, blame on Nintendo alone? OK

Yes. You can't "blame" a business for taking a better deal than the one you're offering them. You just have to accept that your offer wasn't good enough.

Besides, from everybody other than Nintendo's perspective there is no blame. It was a massive success, there's only credit to assign to people.



Ka-pi96 said:
padib said:

@Ka-pi96, it should be patently obvious that I'm talking about business ethics, not popularity or marketshare.

Even in business ethics it wasn't a mistake. There's nothing ethically questionable about choosing not to do business anymore with a company that insists on dictating their own terms and instead doing business with a company that gives you more respect/freedom. There was no "betrayal", they didn't "owe" Nintendo anything.

square and playstation's relationships has only ever been that of a tird party and major developer. an important one but still....

square and nintendo's was almost that of a psudo sencond party dev, like what rare became almost immediatly upon square's departure. nintendo subsitized ALL localization of FF1-6, and more telling, they gve them mario to work with for SMRPG, something that nintendo arely does NOWADAYS, and was almost unheard of back then, we all know how protective nintendo is of their ip....



I remember reading that Sony bought shares in Square and saved them from closing during this time. This is part of the reason why several games stayed as console exclusives and in the case of Final Fantasy 9, they didn't even release it on Windows as it stayed a Playstation 1 exclusive until 2016. And ten years without talking is just a silly overstatement. Chocobo Land: A Game of Dice came out in 2002 for the Gameboy Advance along with Crystal Chronicles on the Gamecube in 2003. The years of not communicating would be 1997 - 2002, maybe even 2001 if that's when developement started.



I've never heard of this actually. But there's a lot to read, so I'll post again when I've finished it.
But I like how it's in interview form. From what I skimmed through they have some interesting stories to share.

Yoshihiro Maruyama

Executive vice president, Square U.S.

[In September 1995] I was hired by the president of the company, [Tetsuo] Mizuno-san, and he told me that, “Squaresoft will always be with Nintendo. … As long as you work for us, it’s basically the same as working for Nintendo.” And the week after I joined, they started saying, “Oh, maybe we should switch to Sony.” So I was kind of shocked.

Tetsuya Nomura

Character and battle visual director, Square Japan

I remember walking down the hall when Sakaguchi-san stopped me and said, “Hey, look at this!” He was wearing this jumper jacket, and he turned around and showed me the PlayStation logo on the back. I stood there kind of dumbfounded. … I was pretty low on the totem pole at Square back then, so I couldn’t really say anything in response — and in any event, even if he had talked to me about it, I was only in a position to nod and agree with him.

Shinichiro Kajitani

Vice president, Square USA

Around that time, Sony approached us, and they told us, “We have the PlayStation coming out and we want to make 3D games. Would you guys be interested?” And at the time, since we were really close to Nintendo, we said, “Well, we’re not sure. We’re pretty much just working with them.” And I asked if it was OK to share that information with Nintendo. And Sony said, “That’s totally fine. Go ahead and show it to them. We just want you to see what we’re doing, and if you like it, then by all means, come work with us on this.” It’s not that we were passing information back and forth between Nintendo and Sony, but at the time our programmers … started making prototypes that ran on the PlayStation and Nintendo 64 as sort of benchmark software to test each system

Kazuyuki Hashimoto

CG supervisor, Square Japan; Chief technical officer and senior vice president, Square USA

At that time, every workstation cost $70,000 U.S. At first, when we were working on the Siggraph demo, we ordered four machines. We were a small customer. After we moved on to Final Fantasy 7, we asked them for a quote for 200 machines. They were surprised. “What?!”

Nobuo Uematsu

Music composer, Square Japan

When I was composing [the music that played when ****** died], I didn’t really think about *** death, but I felt like she wasn’t a very happy character. *** was really innocent and pure but had a tragic kind of life. … I did realize it was probably going to be an important track. …

If I knew that scene would make people cry, I might have made something totally different — something designed to make you cry. But I went with a kind of sad but beautiful tune, and since it’s not the kind of track you typically hear when something tragic happens, maybe that worked out well. When something is missing, people tend to use their imaginations. So since the track doesn’t express 100 percent of the feeling in that moment, people might have filled in the gaps in their heads. Maybe.


-------------------------------


Also, this image takes me back:

I remember seeing it in a videogame magazine back in the day. It was before I had played any Final Fantasy game though.

Last edited by Hiku - on 13 April 2020