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Forums - Microsoft - [Soft-locked DO NOT POST] Is MS focusing too much on quantity over quality with their 1st party games?

Azzanation said:
DonFerrari said:

I agree with you. And I wasn't using time to develop as something positive, I was just saying that if those games are taking 3 to 5 years to be developed they aren't product of quantity before quality even if they didn't had quality it wasn't due to rush or pushing games out.

And yes lenghty time to develop usually show a lot of big issues on the game itself (more than the expectations), usually 3 to 5 years is ok, over that mostly we only see "bad" games released.

I also liked The Last Guardian (but I have to say it took me effort, the first half I played in 30-60m sessions over 1 year and wasn't liking or clicking with the game, but once I did I finished the game in like 3 days).

I don't like Metacritic (but I use it for games I don't know, if it is below 80 I'll hardly buy) but yes metawise both examples would be really comparable, plus 1 or 2 point difference is more meaningfull the highest the scores are, like a logaritimic curve.

Don, you can also argue that Crackdown 3, State of Decay 2 and Sea of Thieves all took more than 3 to 5 years to make as well. However you will see many gamers on this site bash them like they are rushed products. They are different products yes with different budgets and sized teams behind them but they were all meant to be quality titles.

Perhaps I wasn't clear. Yep these 3 games certainly aren't product of "quantity first". Their quality isn't fruit of rushing production or wanting to increase output. They all had bad reviews (and also have a lot of people that love them) but that have nothing to do with short development time.



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Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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They are focusing too much on quantity with backwards compatibility.



I don't know but right now they lack big AAA games. And to be honest big AAA games dont make sense when you are giving them out for free with gamepass day one. At most I see them do 1 big game a year just to to make it seem worth it.



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

eva01beserk said:
I don't know but right now they lack big AAA games. And to be honest big AAA games dont make sense when you are giving them out for free with gamepass day one. At most I see them do 1 big game a year just to to make it seem worth it.

It’s almost flattering when people think every Xbox gamer has GP and even if we are subscribers that we don’t buy anymore games outright. 

The 1 AAA game per year sounds about right for the Xbox One, but next gen looks much brighter. This year will have Halo Infinite and Forza 8, with all the A-AA throughout the year :)



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

sales2099 said:
eva01beserk said:
I don't know but right now they lack big AAA games. And to be honest big AAA games dont make sense when you are giving them out for free with gamepass day one. At most I see them do 1 big game a year just to to make it seem worth it.

It’s almost flattering when people think every Xbox gamer has GP and even if we are subscribers that we don’t buy anymore games outright. 

The 1 AAA game per year sounds about right for the Xbox One, but next gen looks much brighter. This year will have Halo Infinite and Forza 8, with all the A-AA throughout the year :)

If you wana twisted in that way, sure have at it.

But no, I dont think every xbox gamer has gamepass and also don't think they dont buy games. They don't buy first party games as they are included.

Wish in itself not bad as consoles work in that manner as getting you into the ecosystem and from there you buy softwate and they profit. So for that reason consoles are sold at cost or a small lost. To get people in also they have first party games which are meant to push gamers to buy the console as theese games tend to be better as they have to not only sell copys but also sell consoles. But that's the issue companys are suposed to profit from these games. If they take a loss on hardware and a loss on software its harder to  up for it in third party software or subs. I mean it could work its just they will be starting with a handicap. Miss profits that could have gone to investing in more games or hardware improvements or acquisitions or subsidizes or what ever else. 



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

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AngryLittleAlchemist said:
DonFerrari said:

Man, pretending Death Stranding, Days Gone and FF7R are quantity and not quality is really funny. If you were going to do it you would need to discount almost all MS titles as just quantity.

Actually you would need to do it for almost any developer.

That's going by what this site constantly goes by, not my personal standards. I'm actually decently excited for FF7R, but I don't think my arguments are any more disingenuous than most arguments about Microsoft's output (of course, they have been way worse than Sony consistently, but I'm saying that in the recent term both companies haven't done the best, and that in both cases the future prospects have yet to be seen). Of course, Metacritic was never and has never been an actual symbol of quality, but let's be consistent now. And the counter-argument would be, Ori and all the recent Forza Horizons are just as quality, if not moreso, then those titles, again going by Metacritic. 

However, considering the OP is basically talking about the difference between AAA vs AA/A games, I guess it doesn't even matter. I think it's a little silly to act like Microsoft's first party releases for this year set a precedent for what the future is going to be when, again, most of their studio acquistions have yet to release games yet, and even when they do smaller games are developed faster than bigger games, so it's more coincidence that the smaller titles will release first. Again though, it's totally fair to say MS has way more to prove, than Sony, but I don't think the OP is giving a very good example. Days Gone is literally, 3 measly points, about Bleeding Edge.  

Days Gone was one of the few AAA Sony exclusives that didn't get critical acclaim, but you can't argue the quality of Sony's exclusives this gen. What I'm trying to say is that both companies have roughly the same number of studios but their focus is completely different. Just look at this year. It's basically TLOU2, Ghost of Tsushima, Dreams, FF7, Nioh 2, Death Stranding etc. vs a bunch of filler titles for GP and Halo. Some of those AA games will probably turn out great and get good reviews. But how many people, who bought a Xbox to play Halo or Gears, would honestly get super excited and buy a game like Ori? Sure, it's a quality game, but it barely sold 1.5m copies. 

Now, if people can play Ori for free through GP, I'm sure many will give it a go, just like I did. My point, however, is that MS doesn't seem to be focusing on games that core gamers would pay full price for and instead are going for quantity to fill up GP. I mean Gears Tactics looks pretty cool, but would you buy it for full retail price?



sales2099 said:
eva01beserk said:
I don't know but right now they lack big AAA games. And to be honest big AAA games dont make sense when you are giving them out for free with gamepass day one. At most I see them do 1 big game a year just to to make it seem worth it.

It’s almost flattering when people think every Xbox gamer has GP and even if we are subscribers that we don’t buy anymore games outright. 

The 1 AAA game per year sounds about right for the Xbox One, but next gen looks much brighter. This year will have Halo Infinite and Forza 8, with all the A-AA throughout the year :)

I realize this may come across as an atheist speaking in a cathedral. Halo and Gears don't have the pull they did in the 360 era.  Halo series sales have been slipping. MS would not even report on Gears 5 sales and aside from being a bigger open area it still plays like a cover shooter. Something that feels dated now.  Those series only seem to mainly appeal to existing fans now and not bringing in new fans. One of the reasons more Forza, Gears, Halo became a meme this gen. They will convince Xbox fans to buy Series X but I don't see Halo convincing others get an Xbox over PS5. That's not Hellblade either as the first only sold 1 million across several platforms combined. I just see a list of games that convince Xbox fans to buy an Xbox and will have some stuff to tide them over. SO far I don't see anything that says buy Xbox, not PS5.



Bite my shiny metal cockpit!

goopy20 said:

Days Gone was one of the few AAA Sony exclusives that didn't get critical acclaim, but you can't argue the quality of Sony's exclusives this gen. What I'm trying to say is that both companies have roughly the same number of studios but their focus is completely different. Just look at this year. It's basically TLOU2, Ghost of Tsushima, Dreams, FF7, Nioh 2, Death Stranding etc. vs a bunch of filler titles for GP and Halo. Some of those AA games will probably turn out great and get good reviews. But how many people, who bought a Xbox to play Halo or Gears, would honestly get super excited and buy a game like Ori? Sure, it's a quality game, but it barely sold 1.5m copies. 

Now, if people can play Ori for free through GP, I'm sure many will give it a go, just like I did. My point, however, is that MS doesn't seem to be focusing on games that core gamers would pay full price for and instead are going for quantity to fill up GP. I mean Gears Tactics looks pretty cool, but would you buy it for full retail price?

MS is releasing more than "Game pass filler." The majority are high quality titles that have been in development for years. It started out this generation with MS not releasing enough games, but now that games are coming, they are "Filler." Should we ignore games like Dreams and Death stranding because they don't appeal to the vast majority? TLOU2 might be delayed to next year which is easily Sony's biggest title this generation.

The best part about Gamepass is how gamers are trying games they wouldn't have ever before. It lets MS release great games regardless of genre. I would rather see that than MS only focusing on games they know will push sales. That was MS biggest issue this generation and the end of last gen imo. Btw, MS core games isn't the same as Sony's. Age of Empires, Minecraft, Flight Sim, Halo, Gears, Forza all show a wide diversity of games, and all are big sellers. Gears Tactics and Minecraft Dungeons could become extremely popular especially on the PC side of things. 



LudicrousSpeed said:

Bleeding Edge just came out and we know more content is coming. Crackdown 3 got multiple updates and is not a "MP focused" game. Having multiplayer doesn't make a game "multiplayer focused". State of Decay is even less multiplayer focused and it has gotten tons of post launch support.

You just listed a ton of first party Xbox content and only three to four were multiplayer focused games. Some of the other titles have strong MP elements but also have strong SP. And a vast majority of the ones with strong MP elements got good reviews, and got great support post launch. So I have no idea what you're talking about here. I mean, you claim they release too many MP focused titles, most are bad quality, and a lot are forgotten with no support and "left to die a week or two after release", so let's go down your own list.

So going by your own list there doesn't seem to be any over-emphasis on multiplayer titles and the titles with strong MP focus mostly got real good reviews and support.

I think you seem to misinterpret what is usually considered a "multiplayer focused" game when this stuff is brought up. I guess that usually people here use this term to describe the games that are not "the games that can't be played solo" which seems like your definition of the term but to describe games that have multiplayer component have an impact on overall game design. And unfortunately more often in a negative way. Like, you say that Halo 5 and Gears are not multiplayer focused games because they have SP and MP but they are. The worst thing about Halo 5 was the forced co op thing which is the result of multiplayer component of the game having an impact on game design. This game was designed around co op mechanic so it didn't scale well to play solo. Because just filling stupid AI bots instead of real people is not doing the stuff right in this case. 343 need to learn from Gearbox as Borderlands series handle this stuff a lot better and all Borderlands games play really well in both solo and co op modes. I've just provided Halo 5 as an example, so you can think about the rest of the list for yourself.

eva01beserk said:

If you wana twisted in that way, sure have at it.

But no, I dont think every xbox gamer has gamepass and also don't think they dont buy games. They don't buy first party games as they are included.

Wish in itself not bad as consoles work in that manner as getting you into the ecosystem and from there you buy softwate and they profit. So for that reason consoles are sold at cost or a small lost. To get people in also they have first party games which are meant to push gamers to buy the console as theese games tend to be better as they have to not only sell copys but also sell consoles. But that's the issue companys are suposed to profit from these games. If they take a loss on hardware and a loss on software its harder to  up for it in third party software or subs. I mean it could work its just they will be starting with a handicap. Miss profits that could have gone to investing in more games or hardware improvements or acquisitions or subsidizes or what ever else. 

I still buy them if there are any that interest me. Unfortunately there hasn't been that much recently but I bought Ori 2 at launch and regret it. Though, it seems that I'm in minority here so I get your point. But I think that we still don't have enough data to clearly say whether the fact of majority Xbox gamers not buying first party games has some impact on game design or not. Probably, still too early to tell.



 

Leynos said:
sales2099 said:

It’s almost flattering when people think every Xbox gamer has GP and even if we are subscribers that we don’t buy anymore games outright. 

The 1 AAA game per year sounds about right for the Xbox One, but next gen looks much brighter. This year will have Halo Infinite and Forza 8, with all the A-AA throughout the year :)

I realize this may come across as an atheist speaking in a cathedral. Halo and Gears don't have the pull they did in the 360 era.  Halo series sales have been slipping. MS would not even report on Gears 5 sales and aside from being a bigger open area it still plays like a cover shooter. Something that feels dated now.  Those series only seem to mainly appeal to existing fans now and not bringing in new fans. One of the reasons more Forza, Gears, Halo became a meme this gen. They will convince Xbox fans to buy Series X but I don't see Halo convincing others get an Xbox over PS5. That's not Hellblade either as the first only sold 1 million across several platforms combined. I just see a list of games that convince Xbox fans to buy an Xbox and will have some stuff to tide them over. SO far I don't see anything that says buy Xbox, not PS5.

I'm looking at the lineup of games for this year, and I hardly see MS relying on the same formula as before. The new studios haven't even shown the majority of the games they are working on for next gen, or if they have, it's only a tidbit like Hellblade 2 and Everwild. Halo Infinite will push consoles, don't worry about that. Maybe YOU don't see anything to push you to buy an Xbox, but I've already seen the number of excitement for the next Xbox much higher than last generation.