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Forums - Gaming - Final Fantasy VII Remake Review Thread - Current 88 Metacritic / 89 Opencritic

Immersiveunreality on 09 April 2020
HoangNhatAnh said:
Immersiveunreality said:

Wrong, a remake CAN have a changed plot if it still chronologically keeps other elements of the story intact with the same characters.

Give me an example of a remake JRPG which changed the plot like that.

You do not seem to understand that an example on the same level as this does not need to exist for it to be a remake,the remakes you consider remakes did not need to have an example coming before them either.

Definition is what makes it a remake,if scientists find a new kind of bug in the rainforest it is by definition a bug but you will tell them that they need an example of a bug just like it to be considered one?



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Immersiveunreality on 09 April 2020
Vodacixi said:
Immersiveunreality said:

The definition you want us to believe is what you personally think the definition is by cherrypicking examples that do not matter.

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''A reboot is a way to reuse the concept behind a game/movie/etc. (backstory, gameplay mechanics, some characters/locations/plotlines) but otherwise rewrite the entire plot and characters. ... Typically, it means that all existing "canon" for the setting and characters is wiped clean''

''It has been described as a way to "rebrand"[3] or "restart an entertainment universe that has already been established".[1] Another definition of a reboot is a remake which is part of an established film series or other media franchise.[4] The term has been criticised for being a vague and "confusing"[5] " buzzword",[6] and a neologism for remake,[7][8] a concept which has been losing popularity in the 2010s''

''In general, the simplest way to remember the difference between a reboot and a remake is to remember that for a film to be a reboot, it should be resetting a chronology that's been established over multiple films. A remake is concerned with updating a single film, sometimes slavishly''

''With video games there are clear cut reboots with games like 2013's Tomb Raider, 2003's Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time, and 2004's Ninja Gaiden (even though I don't believe it was marketed as a reboot) where both the gameplay and storyline saw revamps.

But then we head a murkier area where gameplay more or less gets rebooted, but there is still storyline continuity.

Take last year's Resident Evil VII where they revamped the gameplay and while it is still within the same storyline continuity, the setting is very much self-contained. Aside from a few nods to show that it takes place within the same universe, it pretty much can stand alone without any knowledge of prior titles (normally the goal of a reboot to attract new audiences).''

Dictonary:

verb (used with object)

to restart (a computer) by loading the operating system; boot again.
to produce a distinctly new version of (an established media franchise, as a film, TV show, video game, or comic book):The studio is rebooting Spider-Man.
to make a change in (something) in order to establish a new beginning:She’s rebooting her career.Lower interest rates are intended to reboot the economy.
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FF7 remake still sticks close enough to the path the original took to be considered a remake and even reboot is kind of a branched off word for remake but by distinction FF7 is STILL a remake.

''In general, the simplest way to remember the difference between a reboot and a remake is to remember that for a film to be a reboot, it should be resetting a chronology that's been established over multiple films. A remake is concerned with updating a single film, sometimes slavishly''

So... just what they did with this game. They reset the original chronology that was stablished in the original game. Also, you have to take into account that this is the first act of this project. They have reset the story in the end of the first arc. Just like many reboots do (Terminator Genysis). The fact that this first part follows for most of its duration its original counterpart doesn't mean shit because this is just the beginning. They have stablished the reset, and that reset is gonna affect absolutely everything that comes after it, completely transforming FF VII story as we know. By your own definition, this is a reboot.

What they do is not resetting,they use the same chronology and they build upon it and make a few tweaks,a reboot completely deletes the path of the original chronology and makes a new.

By definition this is a remake, but you just seem to pick up whatever suits your opinion.



Vodacixi on 09 April 2020
Immersiveunreality said:
Vodacixi said:

''In general, the simplest way to remember the difference between a reboot and a remake is to remember that for a film to be a reboot, it should be resetting a chronology that's been established over multiple films. A remake is concerned with updating a single film, sometimes slavishly''

So... just what they did with this game. They reset the original chronology that was stablished in the original game. Also, you have to take into account that this is the first act of this project. They have reset the story in the end of the first arc. Just like many reboots do (Terminator Genysis). The fact that this first part follows for most of its duration its original counterpart doesn't mean shit because this is just the beginning. They have stablished the reset, and that reset is gonna affect absolutely everything that comes after it, completely transforming FF VII story as we know. By your own definition, this is a reboot.

What they do is not resetting,they use the same chronology and they build upon it and make a few tweaks,a reboot completely deletes the path of the original chronology and makes a new.

By definition this is a remake, but you just seem to pick up whatever suits your opinion.

They have reseted the timeline and the original course of events in the first act of the Final Fantasy VII Remake project. Whathever happens from here on out, it will be completely different from the original game.

It's like Terminator Genisys. It starts with the same story as The Terminator from 1984, they even shot some scenes 1:1... Until time travel and paralel universes kick in the first act of the movie. Then the second and third act are completely different from The Terminator... Because the story has been restarted. Rings a bell?

This is the exact same situation we are dealing with in FF VII Remake. The chronology, the plot, the course of events (future and past), who lives and dies... Everything has been reset. Final Fantasy VII as we know it has been rebooted. It's not a remake. It's a reboot.

Now you'll say: "But you don't know how the future parts will be. Maybe the story will still be close enough to the original game". And to that I say that, taking the spoilers into account, it's impossible that the story of the future parts of FF VII Remake will be consistent with the original chronology and plot. Because, again, the plot has been rebooted. They can't go back anymore. The future of FF VII story is uncertain and impossible to predict. Because it will be completely new. And I haven't heard of any remake in which you go almost blind even if you played the original. Reboots behave like that.

Square Enix lied about what they tried to sell. Some are upset about not getting what was promised. Some like what they got and don't care about the lie. But however each one of us take this situation, a lie is still a lie.



HoangNhatAnh on 09 April 2020
deskpro2k3 said:
Wyrdness said:

FFXIV is not a remake dude come on man this is an absurd reach trying to pass off FFXIV as a remake is like saying No Man's Sky is a remake as well.

It is a Remake dude. A remake means to make something again, which they did in Version 2.0. It features a new game engine, improved server infrastructure, revamped gameplay, interface, and story. It kept all the main characters, locations, enemies, and villains. In addition to adding new locations, and new characters. etc

HoangNhatAnh said:

Ah, an update port? Now it somehow is a remake because you said so. WOW

You're joking right?

So i guess Dragon Quest XI on Switch is a remake of the original version on ps4 too by your logic.



HoangNhatAnh on 09 April 2020
Hynad said:
The continued meltdown from people who haven’t even experienced the game is quite entertaining.

Agree, meanwhile, all other people who did play the original game hope to enjoy the same but great story again on the modern hardware with ps4 graphic, unfortunately, it's just a trick to get them to buy this game. After this game, no doubt many hardcore fans won't even give a crap about Episode 2 anymore.



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HoangNhatAnh on 09 April 2020
Immersiveunreality said:
HoangNhatAnh said:

Give me an example of a remake JRPG which changed the plot like that.

You do not seem to understand that an example on the same level as this does not need to exist for it to be a remake,the remakes you consider remakes did not need to have an example coming before them either.

Definition is what makes it a remake,if scientists find a new kind of bug in the rainforest it is by definition a bug but you will tell them that they need an example of a bug just like it to be considered one?

So you really don't even have any example, got it.



JWeinCom on 09 April 2020
Immersiveunreality said:
Vodacixi said:

''In general, the simplest way to remember the difference between a reboot and a remake is to remember that for a film to be a reboot, it should be resetting a chronology that's been established over multiple films. A remake is concerned with updating a single film, sometimes slavishly''

So... just what they did with this game. They reset the original chronology that was stablished in the original game. Also, you have to take into account that this is the first act of this project. They have reset the story in the end of the first arc. Just like many reboots do (Terminator Genysis). The fact that this first part follows for most of its duration its original counterpart doesn't mean shit because this is just the beginning. They have stablished the reset, and that reset is gonna affect absolutely everything that comes after it, completely transforming FF VII story as we know. By your own definition, this is a reboot.

What they do is not resetting,they use the same chronology and they build upon it and make a few tweaks,a reboot completely deletes the path of the original chronology and makes a new.

By definition this is a remake, but you just seem to pick up whatever suits your opinion.

Have you not read the spoilers or watched the ending?

Because... 

Spoiler!
you literally fight the original chronology.  That's literally one of the boss fights.


Vodacixi on 09 April 2020

I think this guy pretty much nails every problem with the game...



Runa216 on 09 April 2020
JWeinCom said:
Immersiveunreality said:

What they do is not resetting,they use the same chronology and they build upon it and make a few tweaks,a reboot completely deletes the path of the original chronology and makes a new.

By definition this is a remake, but you just seem to pick up whatever suits your opinion.

Have you not read the spoilers or watched the ending?

Because... 

Spoiler!
you literally fight the original chronology.  That's literally one of the boss fights.

Care to share? because 'they fight the original chronology' is not a sentence that makes any sense as far as I can decipher it, and what I CAN find of the ending cutscenes don't seem to be that severe of a change (at least not worth the rabid frothing I'm seeing in the thread)



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JWeinCom on 09 April 2020
Runa216 said:
JWeinCom said:

Have you not read the spoilers or watched the ending?

Because... 

Spoiler!
you literally fight the original chronology.  That's literally one of the boss fights.

Care to share? because 'they fight the original chronology' is not a sentence that makes any sense as far as I can decipher it, and what I CAN find of the ending cutscenes don't seem to be that severe of a change (at least not worth the rabid frothing I'm seeing in the thread)

 I don't see any rabid frothing... I see people giving legitimate reasons why what fans were led to expect is not what was provided, and I see people trying to discredit legitimate criticism by referring to it with terms like "rabid frothing".  But, sure, I'll explain what I mean.

Spoiler!

Throughout the game their are characters called the "whispers of fate" who interact with your party in the interest of keeping things consistent with the original storyline.  Towards the end of the game you actually fight these whispers of fate who are trying to keep things consistent with the original storyline.  At which point Aeris says "the future is always a blank page".

The whispers of fate are literally the original timeline (chronology if you will) trying to interact with this new one to prevent it from changing.  And you fight and kill it.  That's what I mean by fighting the original chronology.  And the fact that they went out of their way to have you literally fight a force that's trying to keep the story the same, coupled with a lot of lines about changing destiny, leads to the very reasonable inference that they are planning rather large changes to the original storyline.