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Forums - Politics - Official 2020 US Presidential Election Thread

So the Donald Trump campaign has raised $207 million in donations since losing the election. He keeps telling his donors the money is needed for legal expenses to expose voter fraud and overturn the results of the election. Of course this just incentivizes Trump to keep lying about the issue and bleeding his supporter dry of more money.

The money will likely be transferred to a Trump Super Pac allowing him to wield considerable political influence. Once a con man always a con man.

Fools and their money are easily parted. I am sickened by money in politics to begin with but the amount of financial waste on such idiocy is truly pathetic.



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IMHO The Dems and Reps mostly have the same types of people, people that want power/wealth for its' own sake, they like the status quo, it's been good to people in power, why change it! By the jobs very nature it attracts the worst humanity can breed up, the ones that love to control and dominate for personal gain, luckily in a Democracy we have the potential to vote them out, but these types of people are great at gaming the system to stay on  

There are a few, too few that do it for others and only others, generally the ones that want a fairer system for all, particularly the struggling/underprivileged, they tend to be more empathetic to other humans and sensitive to the natural environment, they are some of the best people

Last edited by Rab - on 04 December 2020

Rab said:

IMHO The Dems and Reps mostly have the same types of people, people that want power/wealth for its' own sake, they like the status quo, it's been good to people in power, why change it! By the jobs very nature it attracts the worst humanity can breed up, the ones that love to control and dominate for personal gain, luckily in a Democracy we have the potential to vote them out, but these types of people are great at gaming the system to stay on  

There are a few, too few that do it for others and only others, generally the ones that want a fairer system for all, particularly the struggling/underprivileged, they tend to be more empathetic to other humans and sensitive to the natural environment, they are some of the best people

False equivalence yet again. It's really not beneficial for any democracy to pretend that "both sides are the same", when they are clearly not. At least not in the US. It's an easy cop-out to not have to think about politics too hard.

There is one side who fights for the majority of Americans and there is the other side who fights only for themselves. Both have big donors and want to stay in power, but only one of them is actually practicing democracy. And that seems to be a pretty big difference. Big enough to not equate them.



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vivster said:
Rab said:

IMHO The Dems and Reps mostly have the same types of people, people that want power/wealth for its' own sake, they like the status quo, it's been good to people in power, why change it! By the jobs very nature it attracts the worst humanity can breed up, the ones that love to control and dominate for personal gain, luckily in a Democracy we have the potential to vote them out, but these types of people are great at gaming the system to stay on  

There are a few, too few that do it for others and only others, generally the ones that want a fairer system for all, particularly the struggling/underprivileged, they tend to be more empathetic to other humans and sensitive to the natural environment, they are some of the best people

False equivalence yet again. It's really not beneficial for any democracy to pretend that "both sides are the same", when they are clearly not. At least not in the US. It's an easy cop-out to not have to think about politics too hard.

There is one side who fights for the majority of Americans and there is the other side who fights only for themselves. Both have big donors and want to stay in power, but only one of them is actually practicing democracy. And that seems to be a pretty big difference. Big enough to not equate them.

And even if he was true, then why support the status quo? Why not vote third party if you're unhappy with the both big parties?



Bofferbrauer2 said:
vivster said:

False equivalence yet again. It's really not beneficial for any democracy to pretend that "both sides are the same", when they are clearly not. At least not in the US. It's an easy cop-out to not have to think about politics too hard.

There is one side who fights for the majority of Americans and there is the other side who fights only for themselves. Both have big donors and want to stay in power, but only one of them is actually practicing democracy. And that seems to be a pretty big difference. Big enough to not equate them.

And even if he was true, then why support the status quo? Why not vote third party if you're unhappy with the both big parties?

In other countries like Australia that can work as it is closer to proportional representation, as seen how the Greens in many other countries are a force even if not getting elected outright, the US Electoral College is a "winner takes all" system, small parties will not get proportional representation therefore its a dead vote, so the "lesser of two evils" rational is the practical choice for voters  

Last edited by Rab - on 04 December 2020

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vivster said:
Rab said:

IMHO The Dems and Reps mostly have the same types of people, people that want power/wealth for its' own sake, they like the status quo, it's been good to people in power, why change it! By the jobs very nature it attracts the worst humanity can breed up, the ones that love to control and dominate for personal gain, luckily in a Democracy we have the potential to vote them out, but these types of people are great at gaming the system to stay on  

There are a few, too few that do it for others and only others, generally the ones that want a fairer system for all, particularly the struggling/underprivileged, they tend to be more empathetic to other humans and sensitive to the natural environment, they are some of the best people

False equivalence yet again. It's really not beneficial for any democracy to pretend that "both sides are the same", when they are clearly not. At least not in the US. It's an easy cop-out to not have to think about politics too hard.

There is one side who fights for the majority of Americans and there is the other side who fights only for themselves. Both have big donors and want to stay in power, but only one of them is actually practicing democracy. And that seems to be a pretty big difference. Big enough to not equate them.

You must have missed the Dems presidential primaries when the Democratic establishment had concerns about nominating Sanders when it appeared he would win by having the enthusiasm with workers and the young for his very progressive policies and honesty, the Establishment then rallied to block Sanders in favour of Biden who up until then had low voter turnout and enthusiasm because his policies were status quo in nature  

There is a reason Trump became president, and it wasn't because of the Est Dems empathy and policy choices that favoured the working class, they wanted to stay in power not for the people (if so why not champion policies that favour the working class like Sanders did), but for the people in power and privilege (their own class) 

2024 could see the Reps get back in if the Dems don't change to better reflect the young and working class aspirations, if they just benefit the big donors and themselves as the ruling class they will be in trouble come 2024, unfortunately the makeup of the cabinet is setting this up for a bad 2024, mixed demographically but ideologically consistent with the status quo, the progressives with the enthusiastic base are not truly represented in Bidens cabinet picks

The Reps and Dems are different sides of the same bent coin, Sanders/AOC wanted to mint a new coin 

Last edited by Rab - on 05 December 2020

Florida attorney/Man conspires to commit wide voter fraud in Georgia runoffs. Breaks out the tired, "I was just joking!" defense when caught.

These people really need to come up with some new material...



Bofferbrauer2 said:
vivster said:

False equivalence yet again. It's really not beneficial for any democracy to pretend that "both sides are the same", when they are clearly not. At least not in the US. It's an easy cop-out to not have to think about politics too hard.

There is one side who fights for the majority of Americans and there is the other side who fights only for themselves. Both have big donors and want to stay in power, but only one of them is actually practicing democracy. And that seems to be a pretty big difference. Big enough to not equate them.

And even if he was true, then why support the status quo? Why not vote third party if you're unhappy with the both big parties?

Because it's useless unless the US establish democracy. And to do that you have to vote democrats first. Voting 3rd party is not only throwing your vote away, it's working actively against what you try to achieve. Just like moronic Bernie supporters not voting for Hillary and effectively giving their vote to Trump, setting them back even further.

Voting against democrats in the US is voting against yourself unless you are a millionaire or a sociopath.

Rab said:
vivster said:

False equivalence yet again. It's really not beneficial for any democracy to pretend that "both sides are the same", when they are clearly not. At least not in the US. It's an easy cop-out to not have to think about politics too hard.

There is one side who fights for the majority of Americans and there is the other side who fights only for themselves. Both have big donors and want to stay in power, but only one of them is actually practicing democracy. And that seems to be a pretty big difference. Big enough to not equate them.

You must have missed the Dems presidential primaries when the Democratic establishment had concerns about nominating Sanders when it appeared he would win by having the enthusiasm with workers and the young for his very progressive policies and honesty, the Establishment then rallied to block Sanders in favour of Biden who up until then had low voter turnout and enthusiasm because his policies were status quo in nature  

There is a reason Trump became president, and it wasn't because of the Est Dems empathy and policy choices that favoured the working class, they wanted to stay in power not for the people (if so why not champion policies that favour the working class like Sanders did), but for the people in power and privilege (their own class) 

2024 could see the Reps get back in if the Dems don't change to better reflect the young and working class aspirations, if they just benefit the big donors and themselves as the ruling class they will be in trouble come 2024, unfortunately the makeup of the cabinet is setting this up for a bad 2024, mixed demographically but ideologically consistent with the status quo, the progressives with the enthusiastic base are not truly represented in Bidens cabinet picks

The Reps and Dems are different sides of the same bent coin, Sanders/AOC wanted to mint a new coin 

Dems lost against Trump because of politics, not because of their policy. Idiotic Bernie voters are actually one of the main reasons why Trump won. And I'm not saying people who support Bernie are idiots, I'm saying people who support Bernie and don't vote for Hillary or Biden are idiots.

The US is at a point where it literally does not matter how far left or right the policy of the established Democrats are. As long as they are left of whatever the Republicans do it's a Boolean choice. It doesn't matter if the chance to get more socialist policies with established democrats is only 0.1%. It's still more than 0%, which is what you get when you don't vote for Democrats.

While the difference of 0.1 doesn't seem big between Republicans and Democrats it is actually magnitudes apart. Which is why it is not helpful to say that they are similar. It'll only confuse the biggest morons on this planet, undecided voters.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

Rab said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:

And even if he was true, then why support the status quo? Why not vote third party if you're unhappy with the both big parties?

In other countries like Australia that can work as it is closer to proportional representation, as seen how the Greens in many other countries are a force even if not getting elected outright, the US Electoral College is a "winner takes all" system, small parties will not get proportional representation therefore its a dead vote, so the "lesser of two evils" rational is the practical choice for voters  

vivster said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:

And even if he was true, then why support the status quo? Why not vote third party if you're unhappy with the both big parties?

Because it's useless unless the US establish democracy. And to do that you have to vote democrats first. Voting 3rd party is not only throwing your vote away, it's working actively against what you try to achieve. Just like moronic Bernie supporters not voting for Hillary and effectively giving their vote to Trump, setting them back even further.

Voting against democrats in the US is voting against yourself unless you are a millionaire or a sociopath.

It is throwing your vote because everybody thinks it's throwing away your vote. If everybody voted by their heart and not just against the "evils" of the other side, then both parties wouldn't be anywhere close to be so dominant. In fact, I doubt they would be anywhere near dominating at all.

You can see that in local elections, where third parties have much more power and are holding several offices. But once you go a step further, this stupid way of thinking kicks in, ensuring that the two big parties stay unchallenged in state or federal elections.



Bofferbrauer2 said:
Rab said:

In other countries like Australia that can work as it is closer to proportional representation, as seen how the Greens in many other countries are a force even if not getting elected outright, the US Electoral College is a "winner takes all" system, small parties will not get proportional representation therefore its a dead vote, so the "lesser of two evils" rational is the practical choice for voters  

vivster said:

Because it's useless unless the US establish democracy. And to do that you have to vote democrats first. Voting 3rd party is not only throwing your vote away, it's working actively against what you try to achieve. Just like moronic Bernie supporters not voting for Hillary and effectively giving their vote to Trump, setting them back even further.

Voting against democrats in the US is voting against yourself unless you are a millionaire or a sociopath.

It is throwing your vote because everybody thinks it's throwing away your vote. If everybody voted by their heart and not just against the "evils" of the other side, then both parties wouldn't be anywhere close to be so dominant. In fact, I doubt they would be anywhere near dominating at all.

You can see that in local elections, where third parties have much more power and are holding several offices. But once you go a step further, this stupid way of thinking kicks in, ensuring that the two big parties stay unchallenged in state or federal elections.

You're overestimating people's willingness to vote for 3rd party. Think about who votes for them. People already involved with politics who know about policy and care about it. That's a tiny percentage of voters. Even without the electoral college 3rd parties wouldn't even come close to the established parties.

US politics is so entrenched right now that it takes multiple paradigm shifts for 3rd parties to get any kind of meaningful positions in the country, let alone a presidency. So how it is right now even if you could convince people who would consider voting for a 3rd candidate it would not be enough to rattle either party. 3rd party voters are more likely to come from the left side since they are actually interested in politics. That would lead to the Republicans winning every single election and you can be sure they will do everything in their power to suppress 3rd party powers.

So yes, until the US gains a democracy voting 3rd party is indeed not only throwing away your vote, but actively working against the rise of 3rd parties. First you will have to lay the groundwork.

And let's pretend it is possible right now to prop up a 3rd party to usurp whatever one of the established parties, you would just end up with a 2 party system again, because you haven't actually changed the underlying conditions yet.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.