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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Digital Foundry Video: Hands-On With Xbox Series X + Impressions + Xbox One X Size Comparisons + Official Specs + Ray Tracing

SvennoJ on 17 March 2020
Nu-13 said:
SvennoJ said:

Lol nice math there...

Compressed textures have been used for over a decade. PS4 and XBox One have freed up system memory to share for games as well. PS4 has up to 5.5 GB available for games with all the same tricks to reduce memory load. And that was cramped for 1080p. Native 4K requires 4 times the memory for most processing in the rendering pipeline. Is a 2.3x increase enough. My laptop is constrained by 14GB of use-able video ram at 1080p (6 + 8 shared from 16 total system ram) :/

Consoles have always been memory constrained, seems it will continue as usual.

PS1 -> 3MB ram (1MB video ram)
PS2 -> 36MB ram (4MB video ram)
PS3 -> 512MB ram (256MB video ram)
PS4 -> 8GB ram (4.5 + 1 GB on request video ram)
PS5 -> ?

Through the generations the increase in memory has actually been speeding up (12x, 14x, 16x) while launch games developers for ps4 already stated the memory was tight. So you see why a drop to doubling the memory raises questions. All the other things like better handling of textures, compression, faster memory is all the same.

You could at least try. 13gb is 2.6x 5gb. Gddr6 is like 2x more efficient than gddr5. So roughly a 5x increase. The rest stands: AMOUNT OF RAM MEMORY reached diminishing returns and will no longer increase exponentially.

Just look at the numbers. The 512mb the ps360 had 15 years ago was a lot. 5 years later top pcs were using like 4gb, moving on to 8. Now, a whooping 10 years later, we are still at 16-24gb. A much smaller increase.

How much is 4.5 + 1 ?

What does gddr6 is like 2x more efficient mean ? You can store twice as many bytes in 1 GB of gddr6 as opposed to 1 GB of gddr5?
Whatever you're trying to imply, every new gen had more efficient memory.

The 512mb was too little back then as well, remember skyrim on ps3...

16GB GDDR6 plus 8GB DDR4 would have been better and more future proof. Memory will be a bottleneck again, like always, but maybe even more now when the increase in resolution is the biggest between gens yet. 480p -> 720p -> 1080p -> 2160p At least the plans seem to be native 4K for next gen.





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Nu-13 on 17 March 2020
SvennoJ said:
Nu-13 said:

You could at least try. 13gb is 2.6x 5gb. Gddr6 is like 2x more efficient than gddr5. So roughly a 5x increase. The rest stands: AMOUNT OF RAM MEMORY reached diminishing returns and will no longer increase exponentially.

Just look at the numbers. The 512mb the ps360 had 15 years ago was a lot. 5 years later top pcs were using like 4gb, moving on to 8. Now, a whooping 10 years later, we are still at 16-24gb. A much smaller increase.

How much is 4.5 + 1 ?

What does gddr6 is like 2x more efficient mean ? You can store twice as many bytes in 1 GB of gddr6 as opposed to 1 GB of gddr5?
Whatever you're trying to imply, every new gen had more efficient memory.

The 512mb was too little back then as well, remember skyrim on ps3...

16GB GDDR6 plus 8GB DDR4 would have been better and more future proof. Memory will be a bottleneck again, like always, but maybe even more now when the increase in resolution is the biggest between gens yet. 480p -> 720p -> 1080p -> 2160p At least the plans seem to be native 4K for next gen.

Not helping your case by mentioning a company known for poor early optimization due to using old engines. Devs need to work with what they have and they have more than they need. It's kinda surreal to look at how far we came and still hear complaints about hardware bottlenecks.



EricHiggin on 17 March 2020

Wasn't it explained that next gen games have to be played off the SSD for XBSX? Then how can those same games be played on the XB1 HDD models? The games may have reduced quality due to the much slower HDD, but why force that on next gen? Why not allow people to play off an external HDD? Will the HDD to SSD transfer speeds be that quick that it'll make up for the quicker load times you will see from the SSD? What if you're strapped for time and only have half an hour?



EricHiggin on 17 March 2020
the-pi-guy said:
EricHiggin said:
Wasn't it explained that next gen games have to be played off the SSD for XBSX? Then how can those same games be played on the XB1 HDD models? The games may have reduced quality due to the much slower HDD, but why force that on next gen? Why not allow people to play off an external HDD? Will the HDD to SSD transfer speeds be that quick that it'll make up for the quicker load times you will see from the SSD? What if you're strapped for time and only have half an hour?

Because the next gen system is going to take advantage of SSDs in a lot of ways.  It isn't just a faster drive.  It is taking advantage of a different file structure that doesn't work with HDDs.  

Depends a lot on how games can be transferred, and how quickly, but if that same game will play on XB1's HDD, and BC games can be played off an external HDD, then why can't you play a next gen game off the HDD? Unless by next gen games, they mean two years down the road?

I'm being more direct about time, and not about game quality.



EricHiggin on 17 March 2020
the-pi-guy said:
EricHiggin said:

Depends a lot on how games can be transferred, and how quickly, but if that same game will play on XB1's HDD, and BC games can be played off an external HDD, then why can't you play a next gen game off the HDD? Unless by next gen games, they mean two years down the road?

I'm being more direct about time, and not about game quality.

Because at the code level, it's not the same game.  

Just because it looks and plays the same, doesn't mean it's going to be doing all the same stuff in the background.  

I get that, but how is that same game able to play at lower quality on an XB1 with an HDD then? If they are going to the trouble of making the game work on XB1's with their much slower HDD, why not off an external HDD for XBSX, on top of the stock SSD?



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KLAMarine on 17 March 2020
Captain_Yuri said:
Pictures of the controller:

Does it have gyroscopes for gyro aiming?



Jizz_Beard_thePirate on 17 March 2020
KLAMarine said:
Captain_Yuri said:
Pictures of the controller:

Does it have gyroscopes for gyro aiming?

As of right now, I don't believe so. They don't talk about it in their post: https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2020/03/16/xbox-series-x-controller/



                  

PC Specs: CPU: 7800X3D || GPU: Strix 4090 || RAM: 32GB DDR5 6000 || Main SSD: WD 2TB SN850

KLAMarine on 18 March 2020
Captain_Yuri said:
KLAMarine said:

Does it have gyroscopes for gyro aiming?

As of right now, I don't believe so. They don't talk about it in their post: https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2020/03/16/xbox-series-x-controller/

Damn! Sucks, I like their controller.



Bofferbrauer2 on 18 March 2020
Nu-13 said:
SvennoJ said:

How much is 4.5 + 1 ?

What does gddr6 is like 2x more efficient mean ? You can store twice as many bytes in 1 GB of gddr6 as opposed to 1 GB of gddr5?
Whatever you're trying to imply, every new gen had more efficient memory.

The 512mb was too little back then as well, remember skyrim on ps3...

16GB GDDR6 plus 8GB DDR4 would have been better and more future proof. Memory will be a bottleneck again, like always, but maybe even more now when the increase in resolution is the biggest between gens yet. 480p -> 720p -> 1080p -> 2160p At least the plans seem to be native 4K for next gen.

Not helping your case by mentioning a company known for poor early optimization due to using old engines. Devs need to work with what they have and they have more than they need. It's kinda surreal to look at how far we came and still hear complaints about hardware bottlenecks.

How about that whole "real is brown" thing? hat that got enforced because due to lack of memory, as the color palettes had to be reduced to fit into the small RAM of the last gen consoles, which resulted into those muted colors. Something that's pretty much the inverse of HDR, which adds colors and thus further increases the memory needs for the next gen.



The Nintendo eShop rating Thread: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=237454 List as Google Doc:  https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1aW2hXQT1TheElVS7z-F3pP-7nbqdrDqWNTxl6JoJWBY/edit?usp=sharing

The Steam/GOG key gifting thread: https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread/242024/the-steamgog-key-gifting-thread/1/ 

Free Pc Games thread: https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread/248138/free-pc-games/1/

LudicrousSpeed on 18 March 2020

The difference between this and the Vita situation is the Vita situation was born purely out of Sony greed. All tech talk about XSX makes it apparent that this needs a proprietary drive because it is vital to the performance of the system. I don’t mind paying more for expanding memory if it means better performance on either console.