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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Teraflops are NOT a Measurement of Gaming Performance

DonFerrari on 09 March 2020
sales2099 said:
MS wouldn’t be advertising the TFlops if every, and I mean every multiplat Xbox One and PS4 title wasn’t compared for resolution differences in the early years of the gen.

MS telling us what we all want to hear, despite some fan groups changing the narratives to save face. Not saying Xbox fans aren’t guilty of this, but in terms of system power we have been pretty transparent about our wants as a community.

For like 3 years the multiplats looked better on X360, still Sony didn't had the need to push PS3 being more powerful or PS4 being more powerful for a lengthy time, strange right?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

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sales2099 on 09 March 2020
DonFerrari said:
sales2099 said:
MS wouldn’t be advertising the TFlops if every, and I mean every multiplat Xbox One and PS4 title wasn’t compared for resolution differences in the early years of the gen.

MS telling us what we all want to hear, despite some fan groups changing the narratives to save face. Not saying Xbox fans aren’t guilty of this, but in terms of system power we have been pretty transparent about our wants as a community.

For like 3 years the multiplats looked better on X360, still Sony didn't had the need to push PS3 being more powerful or PS4 being more powerful for a lengthy time, strange right?

I remember plenty talk about the power of the CELL from Sony and the community. Multiplats looked better because “devs wouldn’t take the time to master the cell”. A popular line was “360 is now, PS3 is the future” which implied that the Cell would make PS3 future proof.

Clearly the fans care and discuss it online and that’s where this Tflop PR is addressing. I just find a double standard at play where power only matters when it seems the PS console has it.

Last edited by sales2099 - on 09 March 2020

Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

Mr Puggsly on 09 March 2020
DonFerrari said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Most of that was addressed by launch, I don't think Kinect was even required but still bundled at launch and removed months later.

What didn't change was discussion about the GPU disparity. Either way, I just think its funny the OP cherry picked X1X as where teraflop numbers became a topic. Obviously it started years before with the 8th gen specs.

I'll remember that when you try to put the PS4 selling over 2:1 X1 due to the launch problems.

The bad press certainly hurt MS, but selling for $499 at launch also really hurt potential sales. I feel that snowballs.

We can agree X1 would have sold better at $399 on day one. However, MS simply can't compete with Sony at equal price. Which is why I feel Series S should happen.

Last edited by Mr Puggsly - on 09 March 2020

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Mr Puggsly on 09 March 2020
sales2099 said:
DonFerrari said:

For like 3 years the multiplats looked better on X360, still Sony didn't had the need to push PS3 being more powerful or PS4 being more powerful for a lengthy time, strange right?

I remember plenty talk about the power of the CELL from Sony and the community. Multiplats looked better because “devs wouldn’t take the time to master the cell”. A popular line was “360 is now, PS3 is the future” which implied that the Cell would make PS3 future proof.

Clearly the fans care and discuss it online and that’s where this Tflop PR is addressing. I just find a double standard at play where power only matters when it seems the PS console has it.

Don't forget PS3 was held back by 360's inferior specs and DVD drive. Remember FFXIII was linear due to 360.

I guess we could say Sony didn't really boast about its power, not from my memory atleast. But the fans did everywhere, it was ubiquitous. The only thing that shut them up is more power Xbox consoles.



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Mr Puggsly on 09 March 2020
DonFerrari said:
Mr Puggsly said:

You should have just said that.

It's evident there was a lot of discussion about Xbox being weaker and it was mostly discussed on the web.

But now that Xbox seemingly has more powerful devices, I'm glad we realized it doesn't really matter.

Why should I omit context?

MS was the one discussing Tflop heavily at the time, as sure were generic people on the internet. Trying to put it at the fault of generic people while ignoring the great sponsor, the same sponsor for the "most powerful console ever", isn't very good.

The people boasting about PS4's power was louder than Sony could have ever been. Again, it was everywhere on the interweb.

MS boasted power given that seemed important and it worked. The people on the web talked much less about power.



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DonFerrari on 09 March 2020
sales2099 said:
DonFerrari said:

For like 3 years the multiplats looked better on X360, still Sony didn't had the need to push PS3 being more powerful or PS4 being more powerful for a lengthy time, strange right?

I remember plenty talk about the power of the CELL from Sony and the community. Multiplats looked better because “devs wouldn’t take the time to master the cell”. A popular line was “360 is now, PS3 is the future” which implied that the Cell would make PS3 future proof.

Clearly the fans care and discuss it online and that’s where this Tflop PR is addressing. I just find a double standard at play where power only matters when it seems the PS console has it.

Yes fans did that.

And there were several publications putting emphasis on the differences between the versions on PS360. Still that didn't make Sony talk about Tflops. And the talk about the power of cell was during the reveal and how it would be used in several other situations (never happen we know).

For me power still matters, only reason I didn't buy X1X is that for me the best games are the PS exclusives and for that the best HW I can use is PS4Pro. And I would prefer PS5 stronger than XSX even if more expensive (I know I'm minority) also have no issue saying X1X is stronger and that difference made it have more 4k games or higher res of most or all multiplats (if not higher that would be devs "fault").

Mr Puggsly said:
DonFerrari said:

I'll remember that when you try to put the PS4 selling over 2:1 X1 due to the launch problems.

The bad press certainly hurt MS, but selling for $499 at launch also really hurt potential sales. I feel that snowballs.

We can agree X1 would have sold better at $399 on day one. However, MS simply can't compete with Sony at equal price. Which is why I feel Series S should happen.

Sure it became a snowball, but all the biggest problems of Xbox 1 were solved on the first 6 months, the one that took until this year (exclusives) where were Xbox actually started stronger than PS4.

Yes Xbox 1 would have done much better without all the mistakes that we can agree, but not sure how much it would do without all the issues.

Mr Puggsly said:
DonFerrari said:

Why should I omit context?

MS was the one discussing Tflop heavily at the time, as sure were generic people on the internet. Trying to put it at the fault of generic people while ignoring the great sponsor, the same sponsor for the "most powerful console ever", isn't very good.

The people boasting about PS4's power was louder than Sony could have ever been. Again, it was everywhere on the interweb.

MS boasted power given that seemed important and it worked. The people on the web talked much less about power.

Sure they were, every gen fans are louder than the companies.

How did it worked if it didn't diminish the gap on sales on PS4 and X1?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Mr Puggsly on 09 March 2020
DonFerrari said:
Mr Puggsly said:

The people boasting about PS4's power was louder than Sony could have ever been. Again, it was everywhere on the interweb.

MS boasted power given that seemed important and it worked. The people on the web talked much less about power.

Sure they were, every gen fans are louder than the companies.

How did it worked if it didn't diminish the gap on sales on PS4 and X1?

That feels like a lazy response. "Uhm... I know, I'll talk about sales! Derp, so clever!" Sales vs specs, eh?

PS4 fans boasted they get better ports and that grew with PS4 Pro. But then X1X came and that console often had better ports, more 60 fps experiences, more 4K experiences, etc. Suddenly talk about specs just got a little less important. Hence, I'm happy with my X1X even with PS4 selling better.



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derpysquirtle64 on 09 March 2020
DonFerrari said:

Sure it became a snowball, but all the biggest problems of Xbox 1 were solved on the first 6 months, the one that took until this year (exclusives) where were Xbox actually started stronger than PS4.

Yes Xbox 1 would have done much better without all the mistakes that we can agree, but not sure how much it would do without all the issues.

I have to disagree with this statement. The 2:1 sales ratio was already established by the time Kinect was unbundled, so the main reason why Xbox this gen ended up in the position in which it is right now is those launch mistakes. On the other hand, I have to agree that it dropping even lower than 2:1 ratio is the result of awful software output - constant game cancellations, releasing bad 60-70 meta games etc. I personally completely ignored everything except Forza, Gears and Super Lucky's Tale in the second half of the generation. And I must admit that the latter two are hardly can be considered as system sellers nowadays. Gears 5 probably brought the franchise into it's lowest point ever in terms of excitement. When it was released, I've barely seen any discussion about it on the gaming forums. And it was supposed to be the HUGE Xbox game. Unfortunately, even this year is no better. All the games that are coming out are yet another games I'm not interested in. I really hope that situation will change after E3, because Series X will definitely struggle in terms of sales if Microsoft won't fix their software output and make people excited about Xbox games by the time console launches.



 

sales2099 on 09 March 2020
DonFerrari said:
sales2099 said:

I remember plenty talk about the power of the CELL from Sony and the community. Multiplats looked better because “devs wouldn’t take the time to master the cell”. A popular line was “360 is now, PS3 is the future” which implied that the Cell would make PS3 future proof.

Clearly the fans care and discuss it online and that’s where this Tflop PR is addressing. I just find a double standard at play where power only matters when it seems the PS console has it.

Yes fans did that.

And there were several publications putting emphasis on the differences between the versions on PS360. Still that didn't make Sony talk about Tflops. And the talk about the power of cell was during the reveal and how it would be used in several other situations (never happen we know).

For me power still matters, only reason I didn't buy X1X is that for me the best games are the PS exclusives and for that the best HW I can use is PS4Pro. And I would prefer PS5 stronger than XSX even if more expensive (I know I'm minority) also have no issue saying X1X is stronger and that difference made it have more 4k games or higher res of most or all multiplats (if not higher that would be devs "fault").

Be that as it may, this PR is simple in concept and geared towards the fans to boost the Xbox image and limit negative internet chatter about Xbox.

Because now everybody is talking about how teraflops don’t necessarily matter instead of how Xbox is weaker like in 2013. I say that’s a PR victory in itself and addresses the people that talk the loudest on the internet. 

Last edited by sales2099 - on 09 March 2020

Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

victor83fernandes on 09 March 2020
last92 said:
Mr Puggsly said:

You should have just said that.

It's evident there was a lot of discussion about Xbox being weaker and it was mostly discussed on the web.

But now that Xbox seemingly has more powerful devices, I'm glad we realized it doesn't really matter.

Well...power wasn't what caused the xbox one to be mocked by all the internet though.

Tv, sports, 100$ price difference, kinect, always online and fee on used games did much more damage to the xbox brand. And then, of course, there was the power difference on top of all that.

In this age of internet, power is far too important, more so than in 6th and 7th generation, because the gaming news will be littered with performance and graphics comparisons, just like the daily news for the xbox and ps4, with the constant 1080p vs 900p, even if the difference is slight, it matters.

Just look at how many topics mention xbox one X power and true 4K and stuff, when in reality games look only slightly better than the Pro.

Power matter, a lot.

Most of the xbox mocking I remember was actually the design of the console, I read gaming news everyday and I remember a lot of people making fun of the xbox looking like a VCR

Looking at the design of the series X, Sony doesn't need to worry in this department, they would really have to mess up to come with a worse design.