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Forums - Sony Discussion - Gran Turismo PS5: 4K Resolution is Enough, Looking Into Higher Than 60fps - Kazunori Yamauchi

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What do you think

Yes 2 6.45%
 
That's to much 3 9.68%
 
I dont mind the games running at 30 fps 0 0%
 
Make it 120 fps with 4k with PS4 graphic 3 9.68%
 
Make it 60 fps 4k with be... 23 74.19%
 
Total:31
HollyGamer on 20 February 2020
Mr Puggsly said:
Frankly, I don't believe GT Sport can do 8K on a PS5. That's a massive leap that will require more than 9 or even 12 TF.

A more realistic option is 4K native with some sort of image reconstruction technique that does 8K.

However, I don't think PS5 can do 4K/120 fps either. The best solution seems like user options. Have 4K/60 fps mode or 1440p/120 fps option. We also have to consider some GPU power is going to be used to improve visuals.

My guess is 8K is only gonna be in smaller scale games and old stuff.

Why PS5 cannot do 4k at 120fps?  Xbox One X already able to do 4k 60 pfs with Forza. PS5 will be minimum 2 times Xbox One X in GPU and 4 times in CPU of jaguar. If the graphic will be the same with GT Sport on PS4 graphic, i bet it will be easy for GT for PS5 to do 2x the result of Forza on xbox One X. 



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DonFerrari on 20 February 2020
SvennoJ said:
DonFerrari said:

Still GT for certainty will be 4K on PS5, GTS on PS4Pro is near that already.

I rather have dynamic lighting and weather for all tracks than native 4K. I would settle for 2560x2160 at 60 fps for dynamic weather and day/night cycles. It's all pre-baked lighting now, very pretty but static, causing the game to be over 100 GB already. I race a lot and it would be awesome if one of the race slots would reflect the actual time of day and weather at the track when you enter.

Sure. But if we are talking about next gen I believe we can see near or even native 4k still offering these features. But I do agree we can have some dynamic res, or reconstruction to portray the 4k but leave as much power as possible to other IQ features that could make the game look better.

Eagle367 said:

My question is, when will graphics become so overkill that you can't tell video games from reality anymore(if going for the realistic look) and fps so overkill that any more would just be stupid. And at that point, do new consoles with the same box and controller even need to be released? Or unless someone comes up with a new idea like Ninty often does, just selling the same console work out indefinitely with special editions and replacement of too old to properly work consoles(like laptops) be enough. Or is it too far in the future that by the time we get there, either climate change kills us or internet speed becomes so good that streaming becomes the norm and all improvements are in the background with consumers just using the same service for years on end?

For me, 4k /120fps is the roof. After that is redundant and overkill. But improvements on the models themselves to look better and the environments to look better and more powerful CPUs to make AIs better and that sort of less definable in terms of numbers sort of stuff should be improved and focused on. And if all of that reaches an overkill state, Maybe just focus on giving a compelling narrative and a fun game to play should only be focused on. Another interesting thing would be AI becoming so good and worlds so vast and full of life, the fictional games where you can constantly make your own narrative and keep playing and finding new stories even after years of playing it become a reality, maybe even in VR?

Edit: Maybe someone should make a thread about this?

We are between 20 and 50 years away from this being something, you can check CGI threads on the subject.

Sure probably 8k at 100" under 6 feet would already have such a pixel density that you wouldn't have need for more pixels, but there is so much more to get to real photorealism that you really can't differentiate (although my parents sometimes ask what movie I'm watching when I'm playing).

HollyGamer said:
Mr Puggsly said:
Frankly, I don't believe GT Sport can do 8K on a PS5. That's a massive leap that will require more than 9 or even 12 TF.

A more realistic option is 4K native with some sort of image reconstruction technique that does 8K.

However, I don't think PS5 can do 4K/120 fps either. The best solution seems like user options. Have 4K/60 fps mode or 1440p/120 fps option. We also have to consider some GPU power is going to be used to improve visuals.

My guess is 8K is only gonna be in smaller scale games and old stuff.

Why PS5 cannot do 4k at 120fps?  Xbox One X already able to do 4k 60 pfs with Forza. PS5 will be minimum 2 times Xbox One X in GPU and 4 times in CPU of jaguar. If the graphic will be the same with GT Sport on PS4 graphic, i bet it will be easy for GT for PS5 to do 2x the result of Forza on xbox One X. 

Because we want next gen graphics not PS4/X1 level of graphic at 120fps.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Pemalite on 20 February 2020
HollyGamer said:
Mr Puggsly said:
Frankly, I don't believe GT Sport can do 8K on a PS5. That's a massive leap that will require more than 9 or even 12 TF.

A more realistic option is 4K native with some sort of image reconstruction technique that does 8K.

However, I don't think PS5 can do 4K/120 fps either. The best solution seems like user options. Have 4K/60 fps mode or 1440p/120 fps option. We also have to consider some GPU power is going to be used to improve visuals.

My guess is 8K is only gonna be in smaller scale games and old stuff.

Why PS5 cannot do 4k at 120fps?  Xbox One X already able to do 4k 60 pfs with Forza. PS5 will be minimum 2 times Xbox One X in GPU and 4 times in CPU of jaguar. If the graphic will be the same with GT Sport on PS4 graphic, i bet it will be easy for GT for PS5 to do 2x the result of Forza on xbox One X. 

I would hope Zen 2 is more than 4x the performance of Jaguar... Otherwise console manufacturers aren't getting bang for buck.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

SvennoJ on 20 February 2020
DonFerrari said:
SvennoJ said:

I rather have dynamic lighting and weather for all tracks than native 4K. I would settle for 2560x2160 at 60 fps for dynamic weather and day/night cycles. It's all pre-baked lighting now, very pretty but static, causing the game to be over 100 GB already. I race a lot and it would be awesome if one of the race slots would reflect the actual time of day and weather at the track when you enter.

Sure. But if we are talking about next gen I believe we can see near or even native 4k still offering these features. But I do agree we can have some dynamic res, or reconstruction to portray the 4k but leave as much power as possible to other IQ features that could make the game look better.

Ray tracing costs a lot of resources. Great ray tracing at native 4K 60 fps won't be possible on consoles, but it does add a lot for realism. For a 65" 4K tv the difference between reconstructed 4K and native for 4K is hard to spot from a normal sitting distance. Even 4 feet away PS4 pro's current faux K is more than good enough. Texture detail, lighting, shadows and reflection are still lagging far behind the pixel density. It's just easier to boast about native 4K than other things that make a game look good.

I hope next gen full HDR becomes the standard with more focus on lighting and texture detail. Ray tracing should provide better shadows and reflections, however the higher the resolution the more power ray tracing needs to provide accurate shadows and reflections.

Another thing for GT is having more cars on the track. Multi class races on N24 and Sarthe, 60 cars at Sarthe, 150 at Nurburgring.



HollyGamer on 20 February 2020
Pemalite said:
HollyGamer said:

Why PS5 cannot do 4k at 120fps?  Xbox One X already able to do 4k 60 pfs with Forza. PS5 will be minimum 2 times Xbox One X in GPU and 4 times in CPU of jaguar. If the graphic will be the same with GT Sport on PS4 graphic, i bet it will be easy for GT for PS5 to do 2x the result of Forza on xbox One X. 

I would hope Zen 2 is more than 4x the performance of Jaguar... Otherwise console manufacturers aren't getting bang for buck.

It depend on what kind of customization they will do with zen 2, there is a rumor that it's not full Zen 2, instead a cutdown L cache and downlock core speed. I also used the CPU performance comparison between  Xbox SX (Scarlet) CPU with Xbox One X mentioned by Spencer and by Xbox official. Phil said the jump from One X to Series X on CPu is around 4 times.  I guess PS4 pro to PS5 will be even bigger due to Xbox One X CPU is faster than  Jaguar on Pro.  



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DonFerrari on 20 February 2020
SvennoJ said:
DonFerrari said:

Sure. But if we are talking about next gen I believe we can see near or even native 4k still offering these features. But I do agree we can have some dynamic res, or reconstruction to portray the 4k but leave as much power as possible to other IQ features that could make the game look better.

Ray tracing costs a lot of resources. Great ray tracing at native 4K 60 fps won't be possible on consoles, but it does add a lot for realism. For a 65" 4K tv the difference between reconstructed 4K and native for 4K is hard to spot from a normal sitting distance. Even 4 feet away PS4 pro's current faux K is more than good enough. Texture detail, lighting, shadows and reflection are still lagging far behind the pixel density. It's just easier to boast about native 4K than other things that make a game look good.

I hope next gen full HDR becomes the standard with more focus on lighting and texture detail. Ray tracing should provide better shadows and reflections, however the higher the resolution the more power ray tracing needs to provide accurate shadows and reflections.

Another thing for GT is having more cars on the track. Multi class races on N24 and Sarthe, 60 cars at Sarthe, 150 at Nurburgring.

Ray tracing on PS5 is through a dedicated chip so shouldn't impact much the rest.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

SvennoJ on 20 February 2020
DonFerrari said:

Ray tracing on PS5 is through a dedicated chip so shouldn't impact much the rest.

There is no such thing as a ray tracing chip. There are many ways to do ray tracing, some faster, some with better quality. Some dedicated hardware can help but it's not magic. RTX cards still struggle with ray tracing. It will impact the rest, dedicated chip or not.



Nate4Drake on 20 February 2020
twintail said:
Nate4Drake said:
4K/60fps with better physics, better collision system and damage simulation, more realistic car handling depending on surface conditions, and far better AI. Graphics will be much better, that is natural. And please let's put some emphasis on the amount of Contents !

GTS has a a lot of content. What are you talking about?

Not on Day One !  It provided a limited off-line experience.

 I think you missed this and/or you didn't play it on day one.

https://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-4/gran-turismo-sport/critic-reviews

 

Last edited by Nate4Drake - on 20 February 2020

”Every great dream begins with a dreamer. Always remember, you have within you the strength, the patience, and the passion to reach for the stars to change the world.”

Harriet Tubman.

Mr Puggsly on 20 February 2020
HollyGamer said:
Mr Puggsly said:
Frankly, I don't believe GT Sport can do 8K on a PS5. That's a massive leap that will require more than 9 or even 12 TF.

A more realistic option is 4K native with some sort of image reconstruction technique that does 8K.

However, I don't think PS5 can do 4K/120 fps either. The best solution seems like user options. Have 4K/60 fps mode or 1440p/120 fps option. We also have to consider some GPU power is going to be used to improve visuals.

My guess is 8K is only gonna be in smaller scale games and old stuff.

Why PS5 cannot do 4k at 120fps?  Xbox One X already able to do 4k 60 pfs with Forza. PS5 will be minimum 2 times Xbox One X in GPU and 4 times in CPU of jaguar. If the graphic will be the same with GT Sport on PS4 graphic, i bet it will be easy for GT for PS5 to do 2x the result of Forza on xbox One X. 

Don partly explained why, next gen is also about a leap forward in visuals.

Forza 7 is 4K/60 fps, which is 8th gen graphics in about 8 million pixels. 8K however is more like 33 million pixels. X1X is not was a 2x increase in GPU power, it's more like 4.5x. PS4 Pro more than doubled the GPU power of PS4 and still doesn't hit 4K in GT Sport.

Even if PS5 had double the GPU power of X1X, we're talking about quadrupling the pixel count of 4K while improving graphics. In comparison achieving 120 FPS actually requires less power. Lastly, Forza 7 has lower GPU requirements than GT Sport. Forza 7 uses less demanding effects than something like GT Sport because it was built for a console with less GPU power.

Lastly, 8K isn't that important or a great use of limited console resources. Making the leap to 120 fps and improving visuals further will appeal to more people than 8K. I think many people using 9th gen consoles will still have 1080p TV. Which is fine because supersampling of 1440p-4K content actually looks really nice on a 1080p screen.



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Keiji on 20 February 2020

Plus I think majority of people have a screen which is doing 60fps maximum, so there is no point to do 120fps or faster. This kind of fps is for real PC players who like to play at 144fps and all.