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Forums - Politics - Is Bidens campaign dead? (EDIT: Well, this was turned around completely.)

 

Is Biden's campaign no longer viable?

Yes, his campaign is dead! 31 46.27%
 
His campaign is badly hur... 15 22.39%
 
He will take a small hit,... 5 7.46%
 
No, this result will not hurt his campaign. 7 10.45%
 
Donald Trump will win the democratic primary! 9 13.43%
 
Total:67
Eagle367 said:
Bernie is not put just yet. The fight is just heating up and things can change on a dime. So let's not have a race to the bottom with trump or with Biden. Let's agree that in terms of integrity, consistency, good policy, being on the right side of history and humanity, Bernie is actually really great while trump and Biden are bad. On some things like integrity, Trump is far worse and on some things like policy, they both are worse than the other in different categories. Make Bernie the nominee and then we can automatically talk about policy because he actually has policy. Biden and Trump don't have none and even if they did, we all know they lie and lie. Keep it to policy and Bernie wins by a thermodynamical margin.

We can root for Bernie without creating a false equivalency between Biden and Trump.



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sundin13 said:
Eagle367 said:
Bernie is not put just yet. The fight is just heating up and things can change on a dime. So let's not have a race to the bottom with trump or with Biden. Let's agree that in terms of integrity, consistency, good policy, being on the right side of history and humanity, Bernie is actually really great while trump and Biden are bad. On some things like integrity, Trump is far worse and on some things like policy, they both are worse than the other in different categories. Make Bernie the nominee and then we can automatically talk about policy because he actually has policy. Biden and Trump don't have none and even if they did, we all know they lie and lie. Keep it to policy and Bernie wins by a thermodynamical margin.

We can root for Bernie without creating a false equivalency between Biden and Trump.

Did you read my comment? It's not a false equivalency, it's what their records show. Trump so far has not done anything as disastrous as Biden's crime bill but Biden is not as much of a liar as trump is and doesn't flash his corruption in the open like trump. Trump personality wise is far worse than Joe Biden, that's for sure. But when you look at their history, you can't say Biden is better than Trump in every aspect, can you? Now if you disagree, shoe me something as bad as the crime bill that Trump has implemented? As far as actual damage, I think Bush is far worse than Trump. I can be honest with myself about different presidents and political figures. I don't have to pretend that no nuance exists and it's rare to find anyone that is worse in every imaginable metric. Mitch McConnell and Eliot Abrams and Mike Pompeo might be exceptions.

Can we acknowledge that Trump is dangerous without making him the devil incarnate? If we're being honest, I don't think Biden has enough mental power left to be president, if he does even win. He will just be a symbolic figurehead. Will his presidency be better than Trumps? Domestically I believe so but internationally, I'm not so sure. Trump is not the worst of the worst and o believe picking neoliberals will lead the US down a dangerous road where you'll find someone worse than Trump as president soon enough. Mike Bloomberg comes to my mind in that regard. Bernie isn't all good either and I don't support him on everything but he is the only one I feel who is genuine and sincere in his promises to the people and who most closely alligns with me. 

For many Bernie is the compromise and if the US keeps going down the road it currently is on, even a violent revolution is possible. Right now the options are fast decline with Trump, slow decline with Biden or a whole new direction that actually tries to work for the people and might steer the ship around with Bernie. You can compare records and it's alright to admit trump might be better than a democrat at some aspects. It's not false equivalence or even equivalence, it's compare and contrast. Weigh your options and come up with the best candidate according to your vision. Screw party loyalty, screw electibility. Those things come from what the people choose. Your one vote compounds and gives shape to who is electable. You can only guess beforehand. And who you choose determines the shape of the party going forward. The ideals of these parties have changed throughout history and they can keep changing. It's all as simple as that. The rest is just noise.



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

I wish.



Eagle367 said:
Did you read my comment? It's not a false equivalency, it's what their records show. Trump so far has not done anything as disastrous as Biden's crime bill but Biden is not as much of a liar as trump is and doesn't flash his corruption in the open like trump. Trump personality wise is far worse than Joe Biden, that's for sure. But when you look at their history, you can't say Biden is better than Trump in every aspect, can you? Now if you disagree, shoe me something as bad as the crime bill that Trump has implemented? As far as actual damage, I think Bush is far worse than Trump. I can be honest with myself about different presidents and political figures. I don't have to pretend that no nuance exists and it's rare to find anyone that is worse in every imaginable metric. Mitch McConnell and Eliot Abrams and Mike Pompeo might be exceptions.

As terrible as Biden's crime bill is. Trump's withdrawal from the Paris climate agreement and the Iran deal are far worse. 



Vinther1991 said:

Eagle367 said:
Did you read my comment? It's not a false equivalency, it's what their records show. Trump so far has not done anything as disastrous as Biden's crime bill but Biden is not as much of a liar as trump is and doesn't flash his corruption in the open like trump. Trump personality wise is far worse than Joe Biden, that's for sure. But when you look at their history, you can't say Biden is better than Trump in every aspect, can you? Now if you disagree, shoe me something as bad as the crime bill that Trump has implemented? As far as actual damage, I think Bush is far worse than Trump. I can be honest with myself about different presidents and political figures. I don't have to pretend that no nuance exists and it's rare to find anyone that is worse in every imaginable metric. Mitch McConnell and Eliot Abrams and Mike Pompeo might be exceptions.

As terrible as Biden's crime bill is. Trump's withdrawal from the Paris climate agreement and the Iran deal are far worse. 

I'll be honest. The Iran deal withdrawal had the potential to be far worse and I hope it resolves quickly but that won't happen if trump is president.

And the climate agreement hasn't been the call to action as much as it's a vain agreement to pretend like something is being done when it's not. Trump's actual deregulation is the problem. Being in the climate agreement is non binding and not really useful either way. 4 more years of trump aren't bad enough to be worse than Biden in my opinion but 8 years of trump might very well be. That's my honest take on it.

But Bernie Sanders is not out yet and he is the best option. It's not even time to think about whether you will support Biden if he's the nominee. That's a defeatist attitude. The time is to mobilize and drag the youth to vote for the best option, not the lesser of two evils. This fight is far from over and I still believe we can beat the establishment. 



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

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Eagle367 said:
Vinther1991 said:

As terrible as Biden's crime bill is. Trump's withdrawal from the Paris climate agreement and the Iran deal are far worse. 

I'll be honest. The Iran deal withdrawal had the potential to be far worse and I hope it resolves quickly but that won't happen if trump is president.

And the climate agreement hasn't been the call to action as much as it's a vain agreement to pretend like something is being done when it's not. Trump's actual deregulation is the problem. Being in the climate agreement is non binding and not really useful either way. 4 more years of trump aren't bad enough to be worse than Biden in my opinion but 8 years of trump might very well be. That's my honest take on it.

But Bernie Sanders is not out yet and he is the best option. It's not even time to think about whether you will support Biden if he's the nominee. That's a defeatist attitude. The time is to mobilize and drag the youth to vote for the best option, not the lesser of two evils. This fight is far from over and I still believe we can beat the establishment. 

I believe I read something yesterday that the youth vote was down in 10/14 states on Super Tuesday and is down, overall, compared to 2016. Bernie won a lot more of the youths % wise but apparently less of them are voting than in 2016 in the Democratic primaries. That is the opposite of what Bernie needs to win the general election. Biden could win a general election without the rough because middle aged and older people actually like him. Bernie needs the youth because the older one gets the more they think him radical.

I say this openly as a conservative, by the way. I have no idea who will win. I'd prefer any social conservative other than Trump, but he's what we've got and I have to vote to support baby rights.

If I can't have Trump I'd rather have Biden than Sanders, at least policy wise (but I'm very concerned for Biden's mental wellbeing as I am for Trump's). Sanders seems to be the most mentally stable of the three, but his policies are way too far for me. I disagree with almost his entire platform. Honestly if Trump didn't appoint pro life judges I'd probably vote third party or not at all based on this selection because that issue is by far the most important to me. Someone else's life being an inconvenience isn't an excuse to murder them.

Last edited by Dulfite - on 08 March 2020

Eagle367 said:
sundin13 said:

We can root for Bernie without creating a false equivalency between Biden and Trump.

Did you read my comment? It's not a false equivalency, it's what their records show. Trump so far has not done anything as disastrous as Biden's crime bill but Biden is not as much of a liar as trump is and doesn't flash his corruption in the open like trump. Trump personality wise is far worse than Joe Biden, that's for sure. But when you look at their history, you can't say Biden is better than Trump in every aspect, can you? Now if you disagree, shoe me something as bad as the crime bill that Trump has implemented? As far as actual damage, I think Bush is far worse than Trump. I can be honest with myself about different presidents and political figures. I don't have to pretend that no nuance exists and it's rare to find anyone that is worse in every imaginable metric. Mitch McConnell and Eliot Abrams and Mike Pompeo might be exceptions.

But the past doesn't equal the future.

There is no reason to assume that Biden would maintain his past position on that particular issue. If we compare Biden's current platform (not his platform over twenty-five years ago) on these issues to Trump's, I would take Biden any day.



I’ll vote for whoever isn’t trump. That is the most important thing. Between Biden and sanders I would probably go with Biden... don’t really like either though...



Dulfite said:
Eagle367 said:

I'll be honest. The Iran deal withdrawal had the potential to be fa3r worse and I hope it resolves quickly but that won't happen if trump is president.

And the climate agreement hasn't been the call to action as much as it's a vain agreement to pretend like something is being done when it's not. Trump's actual deregulation is the problem. Being in the climate agreement is non binding and not really useful either way. 4 more years of trump aren't bad enough to be worse than Biden in my opinion but 8 years of trump might very well be. That's my honest take on it.

But Bernie Sanders is not out yet and he is the best option. It's not even time to think about whether you will support Biden if he's the nominee. That's a defeatist attitude. The time is to mobilize and drag the youth to vote for the best option, not the lesser of two evils. This fight is far from over and I still believe we can beat the establishment. 

I believe I read something yesterday that the youth vote was down in 10/14 states on Super Tuesday and is down, overall, compared to 2016. Bernie won a lot more of the youths % wise but apparently less of them are voting than in 2016 in the Democratic primaries. That is the opposite of what Bernie needs to win the general election. Biden could win a general election without the rough because middle aged and older people actually like him. Bernie needs the youth because the older one gets the more they think him radical.

I say this openly as a conservative, by the way. I have no idea who will win. I'd prefer any social conservative other than Trump, but he's what we've got and I have to vote to support baby rights.

If I can't have Trump I'd rather have Biden than Sanders, at least policy wise (but I'm very concerned for Biden's mental wellbeing as I am for Trump's). Sanders seems to be the most mentally stable of the three, but his policies are way too far for me. I disagree with almost his entire platform. Honestly if Trump didn't appoint pro life judges I'd probably vote third party or not at all based on this selection because that issue is by far the most important to me. Someone else's life being an inconvenience isn't an excuse to murder them.

You are the prime example of why Joe will lose. He has no chance of expanding his base. The democrats that will vote for Joe will also vote for Bernie, just like Clinton. The republicans will vote for Trump over Joe, like you are and just like Clinton. If anyone has a ceiling, it's a moderate corporatist democrat. The imaginary conservative democrat voter doesn't exist and there's no use going there. The aim is to get people to vote who don't. And those are the people Bernie does best with, whether the youth or the independents. That's why I said to mobilize and drag the youth to vote because they have become too apathetic to all parties. They believe the DNC will rig it anyways so what's the use anyways. But if Bernie wins the primaries, they are much more likely to come out and vote in the general than the primaries. 

The best chance of beating Trump is Bernie. Trump can beat Bernie but it's harder for him. Trump can more easily beat Joe. 

Finally, to be honest, I don't get your stance. If you are pro-life, universal healthcare and education should be a priority. Someone who is living by doesn't have enough money for healthcare seems to be more important than a clot of cells that haven't even specialized into brain cells or heart cells or other organs. I don't endorse killing babies but even the latest of abortions aren't carried out on babies. There is a process to becoming a human baby and the cut off is vague but intelligent policy can be made to differentiate between a baby and a precursor to a baby. I'm against late stage abortion as well, but m also against the already born people dying or being homeless because they are poor. 

Trump does a lot more anti-life things than most democrats and Bernie is more pro-life than most other politicians. 



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

gergroy said:
I’ll vote for whoever isn’t trump. That is the most important thing. Between Biden and sanders I would probably go with Biden... don’t really like either though...

If you think beating trump is the most important thing, you either live a privileged life or don't have enough information or most likely both. Beating Trump is the first step, not the most important thing.



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also