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Forums - General Discussion - Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread

 

You concerned yet?

Yes 94 49.47%
 
No, but I will be followi... 50 26.32%
 
No, its being overblown 46 24.21%
 
Total:190

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/13/uk-coronavirus-deaths-pass-100000
UK death toll has reached 100,000. UK records 1500 deaths in the last 24 hours.



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HoangNhatAnh said:
haxxiy said:

Viet Nam is a rather pitiable 175th out of 180 countries in the Press Freedom Index, where it keeps immediate company to a coincidentally amazing coronavirus-proof roster of countries including China, North Korea, Turkmenistan, and Laos.

If only we still had Einstein or something around to solve this epidemiological mystery...

Bold: this "pitiable 175th" country won against China, France and America during war time.

Lol, nice deflection, bro.

"We don't have freedom of press, but at least we killed some people that one time!"

Looks like the propaganda machine is working as intended.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

HoangNhatAnh said:
haxxiy said:

Viet Nam is a rather pitiable 175th out of 180 countries in the Press Freedom Index, where it keeps immediate company to a coincidentally amazing coronavirus-proof roster of countries including China, North Korea, Turkmenistan, and Laos.

If only we still had Einstein or something around to solve this epidemiological mystery...

Bold: this "pitiable 175th" country won against China, France and America during war time.

And beat the terror regime of the Khmer Rouge. The main message: don't mess with the vietnamese people, regardless if you are a military power or a virus.



3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

my greatest games: 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020

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vivster said:
HoangNhatAnh said:

Bold: this "pitiable 175th" country won against China, France and America during war time.

Lol, nice deflection, bro.

"We don't have freedom of press, but at least we killed some people that one time!"

Looks like the propaganda machine is working as intended.

Vietnam was attacked in all these cases and defended their country. The french part is the most complicated, but France invaded Vietnam to try to reestablish their colony, after Vietnam declared independence following the loss of Japan (which had occupied the country) in World War II.

I may not agree with the undemocratic regime in Vietnam, but that doesn't mean I need to depict the defense against imperial invasions as "killed some people that one time".

And I think it is unfair to say this reaction is deflection, then the post from haxxiy that was answered here is actually a deflection, because haxxiy didn't want to accept that Vietnam did well (and much better than most western countries) in defeating coronavirus. Why don't you point out his deflection?

Last edited by Mnementh - 4 days ago

3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

my greatest games: 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020

10 years greatest game event!

bets: [1], [2], [3], [4]

Mnementh said:
vivster said:

Lol, nice deflection, bro.

"We don't have freedom of press, but at least we killed some people that one time!"

Looks like the propaganda machine is working as intended.

Vietnam was attacked in all these cases and defended their country. The french part is the most complicated, but France invaded Vietnam to try to reestablish their colony, after Vietnam declared independence following the loss of Japan (which had occupied the country) in World War II.

I may not agree with the undemocratic regime in Vietnam, but that doesn't mean I need to depict the defense against imperial invasions as "killed some people that one time".

And I think it is unfair to say this reaction is deflection, then the post from haxxiy that was answered here is actually a deflection, because haxxiy didn't want to accept that Vietnam did well (and much better than most western countries) in defeating coronavirus. Why don't you point out his deflection?

I did not get the first part of what haxxiy was responding to. I just found it hilarious that he tried to defend his country by saying something completely unrelated. That's textbook deflection. I should know, because I'm German and every other argument is ending with "But we beat you in WW2". What he said sounded the exact same. And it also sounds like what a propaganda machine would teach people to say if someone criticises their great country.

Considering the limited freedom of speech and the seemingly quite successful propaganda I will be careful with accepting any COVID numbers coming from there, just like with China and the US.

We should be really careful in praising any dictatorship for whatever reason, even if it was justified.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

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vivster said:
Mnementh said:

Vietnam was attacked in all these cases and defended their country. The french part is the most complicated, but France invaded Vietnam to try to reestablish their colony, after Vietnam declared independence following the loss of Japan (which had occupied the country) in World War II.

I may not agree with the undemocratic regime in Vietnam, but that doesn't mean I need to depict the defense against imperial invasions as "killed some people that one time".

And I think it is unfair to say this reaction is deflection, then the post from haxxiy that was answered here is actually a deflection, because haxxiy didn't want to accept that Vietnam did well (and much better than most western countries) in defeating coronavirus. Why don't you point out his deflection?

I did not get the first part of what haxxiy was responding to. I just found it hilarious that he tried to defend his country by saying something completely unrelated. That's textbook deflection. I should know, because I'm German and every other argument is ending with "But we beat you in WW2". What he said sounded the exact same. And it also sounds like what a propaganda machine would teach people to say if someone criticises their great country.

Considering the limited freedom of speech and the seemingly quite successful propaganda I will be careful with accepting any COVID numbers coming from there, just like with China and the US.

We should be really careful in praising any dictatorship for whatever reason, even if it was justified.

As I said, there were multiple posts about the successful fight against COVID in Vietnam and haxxiy reacted by dragging other political aspects into the situation. Yes, you might see HoangNhatAnh reaction as deflection, but actually it was a short and snappy response to a post that wanted to deflect discussion about the methods of vietnam to completely unrelated issues.

For trust into the numbers... do you trust our numbers in germany? After the rules changed and you can't get a test even with direct contact with a proven infected person as long as you show no symptoms. Which is even more hilarious considering you still get the recommendation to quarantine. And to make it useless: the quarantine doesn't expand to your contacts, including other members of your household. The numbers from germany are highly untrustworthy.

But you always have other indications. An infection that isn't under control will spread further and it results in full hospitals and increasing death numbers. That thing you can't keep under covers for a long period of time. These things indicate indeed, that Vietnam is quite successful in fighting the virus. In summer western media also recognized this, I don't find any recent reports though:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RjDqEauJMU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDk9CW82puo

I also think it is quite risky to ignore everything a dictatorship does and not to recognize their successes. Because we can learn from them without turning ourself into dictatorships. But to learn from them, we first have to recognize what we can learn. By outright denying every success of such countries because dictatorship is actually not better than denying everything germany does because of WWII. And in the current natural disaster which is the pandemic, it is clear that germany critically fails to properly respond, while Vietnam is quite successful. We should recognize this and try to learn everythign we can learn, not switch to unrelated points. It is justified to discuss the vietnamese authorative regime, but probably not in regards to fighting the virus. There may be some measures that are not applicable in a democracy, but that doesn't mean everything they do is impossible for us to replicate (or even modify to fit for us).



3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

my greatest games: 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020

10 years greatest game event!

bets: [1], [2], [3], [4]

vivster said:
HoangNhatAnh said:

Bold: this "pitiable 175th" country won against China, France and America during war time.

Lol, nice deflection, bro.

"We don't have freedom of press, but at least we killed some people that one time!"

Looks like the propaganda machine is working as intended.

They attacked us first, this is self-defense.

Mnementh said:
HoangNhatAnh said:

Bold: this "pitiable 175th" country won against China, France and America during war time.

And beat the terror regime of the Khmer Rouge. The main message: don't mess with the vietnamese people, regardless if you are a military power or a virus.

We always choose peace, but won't forgive anyone try to invade us.

Mnementh said:
vivster said:

Lol, nice deflection, bro.

"We don't have freedom of press, but at least we killed some people that one time!"

Looks like the propaganda machine is working as intended.

Vietnam was attacked in all these cases and defended their country. The french part is the most complicated, but France invaded Vietnam to try to reestablish their colony, after Vietnam declared independence following the loss of Japan (which had occupied the country) in World War II.

I may not agree with the undemocratic regime in Vietnam, but that doesn't mean I need to depict the defense against imperial invasions as "killed some people that one time".

And I think it is unfair to say this reaction is deflection, then the post from haxxiy that was answered here is actually a deflection, because haxxiy didn't want to accept that Vietnam did well (and much better than most western countries) in defeating coronavirus. Why don't you point out his deflection?

Give it up, he believes everything from western is superior compared to eastern. Thank you anyway. 

vivster said:
Mnementh said:

Vietnam was attacked in all these cases and defended their country. The french part is the most complicated, but France invaded Vietnam to try to reestablish their colony, after Vietnam declared independence following the loss of Japan (which had occupied the country) in World War II.

I may not agree with the undemocratic regime in Vietnam, but that doesn't mean I need to depict the defense against imperial invasions as "killed some people that one time".

And I think it is unfair to say this reaction is deflection, then the post from haxxiy that was answered here is actually a deflection, because haxxiy didn't want to accept that Vietnam did well (and much better than most western countries) in defeating coronavirus. Why don't you point out his deflection?

I did not get the first part of what haxxiy was responding to. I just found it hilarious that he tried to defend his country by saying something completely unrelated. That's textbook deflection. I should know, because I'm German and every other argument is ending with "But we beat you in WW2". What he said sounded the exact same. And it also sounds like what a propaganda machine would teach people to say if someone criticises their great country.

Considering the limited freedom of speech and the seemingly quite successful propaganda I will be careful with accepting any COVID numbers coming from there, just like with China and the US.

We should be really careful in praising any dictatorship for whatever reason, even if it was justified.

You can check every morgue in Vietnam if you think we're lying.



Phoenix20 said:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/13/uk-coronavirus-deaths-pass-100000
UK death toll has reached 100,000. UK records 1500 deaths in the last 24 hours.

John Hopkins only shows 85,000.   (worldometers.info/coronavirus/)

But then again, they "only" count those that ALREADY had tested positive, within 28days of the death.
And only count them, if the direct cause was corona and not indirectly ect ect.
(they refuse to count post death, if they wheren't tested before, and refuse to test corpses (even if doctors are like 99.9% sure its covid))

They applied these rules, and "dismissed" alot of deaths, at some point (end of first wave?), to reduce how badly the UK was doing (looked to be doing).

But thats a mile stone to hit.
100k is alot of people (~0,2% of population? of UK).

USA is soon gonna hit 400,000+ offical dead too (its 6k away from it now, and every day theres another ~4100 dead).
(real number probably closer to 600,000+)

At some point, those "its just a flu, bro" people, will have to accept this thing is differnt from a flu.

Last edited by JRPGfan - 4 days ago

Mnementh said:
vivster said:

I did not get the first part of what haxxiy was responding to. I just found it hilarious that he tried to defend his country by saying something completely unrelated. That's textbook deflection. I should know, because I'm German and every other argument is ending with "But we beat you in WW2". What he said sounded the exact same. And it also sounds like what a propaganda machine would teach people to say if someone criticises their great country.

Considering the limited freedom of speech and the seemingly quite successful propaganda I will be careful with accepting any COVID numbers coming from there, just like with China and the US.

We should be really careful in praising any dictatorship for whatever reason, even if it was justified.

As I said, there were multiple posts about the successful fight against COVID in Vietnam and haxxiy reacted by dragging other political aspects into the situation. Yes, you might see HoangNhatAnh reaction as deflection, but actually it was a short and snappy response to a post that wanted to deflect discussion about the methods of vietnam to completely unrelated issues.

For trust into the numbers... do you trust our numbers in germany? After the rules changed and you can't get a test even with direct contact with a proven infected person as long as you show no symptoms. Which is even more hilarious considering you still get the recommendation to quarantine. And to make it useless: the quarantine doesn't expand to your contacts, including other members of your household. The numbers from germany are highly untrustworthy.

But you always have other indications. An infection that isn't under control will spread further and it results in full hospitals and increasing death numbers. That thing you can't keep under covers for a long period of time. These things indicate indeed, that Vietnam is quite successful in fighting the virus. In summer western media also recognized this, I don't find any recent reports though:

I also think it is quite risky to ignore everything a dictatorship does and not to recognize their successes. Because we can learn from them without turning ourself into dictatorships. But to learn from them, we first have to recognize what we can learn. By outright denying every success of such countries because dictatorship is actually not better than denying everything germany does because of WWII. And in the current natural disaster which is the pandemic, it is clear that germany critically fails to properly respond, while Vietnam is quite successful. We should recognize this and try to learn everythign we can learn, not switch to unrelated points. It is justified to discuss the vietnamese authorative regime, but probably not in regards to fighting the virus. There may be some measures that are not applicable in a democracy, but that doesn't mean everything they do is impossible for us to replicate (or even modify to fit for us).

We can learn from other countries without being too praising. International recognition is one of the worst things you can give a dictatorship, even if it's earned.

Germany has had limited success because we're too democratic. I don't have to trust German numbers because they're way too bad anyway. No country will report higher numbers than it actually has so my distrust starts only when some numbers look too good. I think it's useful to talk about politics and authoritarian regimes, because those regimes have a wider toolset to combat spread, than Germany with its limp dicked politicians. Though I don't think the things we'll learn will be all too applicable. I mean I already know where Germany has fucked up and Vietnam didn't.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

vivster said:
Mnementh said:

As I said, there were multiple posts about the successful fight against COVID in Vietnam and haxxiy reacted by dragging other political aspects into the situation. Yes, you might see HoangNhatAnh reaction as deflection, but actually it was a short and snappy response to a post that wanted to deflect discussion about the methods of vietnam to completely unrelated issues.

For trust into the numbers... do you trust our numbers in germany? After the rules changed and you can't get a test even with direct contact with a proven infected person as long as you show no symptoms. Which is even more hilarious considering you still get the recommendation to quarantine. And to make it useless: the quarantine doesn't expand to your contacts, including other members of your household. The numbers from germany are highly untrustworthy.

But you always have other indications. An infection that isn't under control will spread further and it results in full hospitals and increasing death numbers. That thing you can't keep under covers for a long period of time. These things indicate indeed, that Vietnam is quite successful in fighting the virus. In summer western media also recognized this, I don't find any recent reports though:

I also think it is quite risky to ignore everything a dictatorship does and not to recognize their successes. Because we can learn from them without turning ourself into dictatorships. But to learn from them, we first have to recognize what we can learn. By outright denying every success of such countries because dictatorship is actually not better than denying everything germany does because of WWII. And in the current natural disaster which is the pandemic, it is clear that germany critically fails to properly respond, while Vietnam is quite successful. We should recognize this and try to learn everythign we can learn, not switch to unrelated points. It is justified to discuss the vietnamese authorative regime, but probably not in regards to fighting the virus. There may be some measures that are not applicable in a democracy, but that doesn't mean everything they do is impossible for us to replicate (or even modify to fit for us).

We can learn from other countries without being too praising. International recognition is one of the worst things you can give a dictatorship, even if it's earned.

Germany has had limited success because we're too democratic. I don't have to trust German numbers because they're way too bad anyway. No country will report higher numbers than it actually has so my distrust starts only when some numbers look too good. I think it's useful to talk about politics and authoritarian regimes, because those regimes have a wider toolset to combat spread, than Germany with its limp dicked politicians. Though I don't think the things we'll learn will be all too applicable. I mean I already know where Germany has fucked up and Vietnam didn't.

I think one area Vietnam did pretty well is communication, with the song for instance. That is something a democracy can do as well.

But overall there is more to learn. Look at this article (in german), there are some things discussed that are lessons taken from countries that are more successful than germany.



3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

my greatest games: 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020

10 years greatest game event!

bets: [1], [2], [3], [4]