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Forums - General Discussion - Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread

SvennoJ said:
JWeinCom said:

I would say grateful.

The amount of money saved by the vaccine is certainly in vast vast vast excess of 33.5billion dollars. There was something that was needed, it was produced, and the people who produced it profited. I don't find anything inherently objectionable about that. Just hope that the people who did the actual work got a fat slice of dough.

Yep, grateful for that part. Yet at the same time disgusted when I look at the vaccination numbers in the third world. Forecasting billions of profits from booster shots while for example Haiti sits at 0.16% vaccinated.

It feels like a failure of the WHO that they can't coordinate a vaccine rollout and have to rely on capitalism to come up with a solution. I doubt the people who did the actual work (front line healthcare workers) get to see anything of that dough...

Just feels wrong reading about billions of dollars of pure profit while the pandemic is far from over. It's just another cash cow now.

I'm not an expert on the situation in Haiti, but I'm not sure 33 billion would solve the issues. And billions of dollars in pure profit (although the article states revenue, which is very different) is a good incentive for companies to invest in vaccines. Not a perfect system, but I really can't think of a better one. 



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JWeinCom said:
SvennoJ said:

Yep, grateful for that part. Yet at the same time disgusted when I look at the vaccination numbers in the third world. Forecasting billions of profits from booster shots while for example Haiti sits at 0.16% vaccinated.

It feels like a failure of the WHO that they can't coordinate a vaccine rollout and have to rely on capitalism to come up with a solution. I doubt the people who did the actual work (front line healthcare workers) get to see anything of that dough...

Just feels wrong reading about billions of dollars of pure profit while the pandemic is far from over. It's just another cash cow now.

I'm not an expert on the situation in Haiti, but I'm not sure 33 billion would solve the issues. And billions of dollars in pure profit (although the article states revenue, which is very different) is a good incentive for companies to invest in vaccines. Not a perfect system, but I really can't think of a better one. 

Lots of people could've invested in big pharma during the early pandemic stage and now taken those profits and pooled them into a fund for places like Haiti and the third world. They could also campaign to influence big pharma to try and chip in. Just a thought.

Sad fact is plenty did invest and many will just hold on for more gains, sell and bank, or put cash outs towards nonessentials.

It's not just the elite who are greedy, blind, or hypocritical, though they tend to be the worst offenders.

Capitalism ain't perfect, but overall it's the best we've come up with so far. It's implementation also matters just as much if not more. Injections are useful, but it depends on how many to work well, cleanliness, what fluids in the needle, etc. Some injections are much more worthy/useful than others.



haxxiy said:
Barozi said:

Nope. The official numbers have already proven themselves that they are incorrect when it comes to first shots. The amount of seconds shots in the age group of 18-59 was not too long ago higher than the amount of first shots in the same age group. That is of course non-sense and proves that first shots are undertracked by several percent.

Also there's no reason to believe that the surveys are false. Why should people in the age group 18-59 lie about getting the first shot but say the truth about the second shot? And why aren't the people in the age group 60+ lying at all? Did I mention that the surveys were done anonymously? Even less reason to lie.

Besides, the delay can only be attributed to company phisicians. The data transmitted about J&J shots won't be changed, so there will always be a discrepancy.

I'm not saying you are wrong, just that this kind of discrepancy is common when it comes to data analysis. Not only you might be stuck with a flawed sample due to design plan or methodology but survey responders can be knowingly and unknowingly dishonest, even in anonymous surveys. In research, that's a fact of life. An example: Gallup poll claimed 69% of US adults had gotten one dose by early September, but government data claimed over 75% around that time, reporting delays and all. I wouldn't take that to mean the US is overtracking vaccines, just that polls are polls.

Looking at individual data from the federal states and comparing it to neighboring countries, from an outsider's perspective, I don't see any reason to believe in a discrepancy. But maybe you've heard differently from the health minister or something, so I'll give the benefit of doubt *shrugs*

Source?

Vaccination Status and Intentions of U.S. Adults

Jul 19-26, 2021
Already vaccinated 69%

https://news.gallup.com/opinion/gallup/308126/roundup-gallup-covid-coverage.aspx


U.S. reaches 70% Covid vaccine milestone for adults about a month behind Biden’s goal
Published Mon, Aug 2 20211:40 PM EDT

"Seventy percent of U.S. adults have had at least one shot of a Covid vaccine, according to data published Monday by the CDC [...]"

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/02/covid-vaccine-us-reaches-bidens-70percent-goal-for-adults-a-month-behind.html

The survey is spot on.



Barozi said:
haxxiy said:

Source?

Vaccination Status and Intentions of U.S. Adults

Jul 19-26, 2021
Already vaccinated 69%

https://news.gallup.com/opinion/gallup/308126/roundup-gallup-covid-coverage.aspx

U.S. reaches 70% Covid vaccine milestone for adults about a month behind Biden’s goal
Published Mon, Aug 2 20211:40 PM EDT

"Seventy percent of U.S. adults have had at least one shot of a Covid vaccine, according to data published Monday by the CDC [...]"

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/02/covid-vaccine-us-reaches-bidens-70percent-goal-for-adults-a-month-behind.html

The survey is spot on.

My bad. I looked at this and must have conflated the headline for the previous month with the independent middle line below.

Here's data for US adults: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-09-07/u-s-reaches-75-of-adults-with-at-least-one-vaccine-dose

Still, you can see that vaccination seemingly moved backwards at some points when it was relatively flat, which proves this kind of data can still fall prey to reversion to mean even when it's adjusted against official data and/or previous poll respondents.

How was the survey that found out more people that had been vaccinated than the official count normalized? It would be hard to know for sure it was done properly. Have government officials commented on it, or do they focus instead there's a lot of vaccine-reluctant people?



 

 

 

 

 

A little heart warming story and some national pride about the origins of the RNA vaccines

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/how-the-early-work-of-a-canadian-scientist-and-his-team-made-the-covid-19-vaccines-possible-1.5601481

Canadian scientist Ian MacLachlan has been watching the vaccine rollout with awe, knowing he and his team played a vital role in their development, which began decades ago.

“There's a part of me that is almost overwhelmed, how effective and powerful these vaccines have been,” MacLachlan told CTV News in an interview.

“There would be no mRNA vaccines without the LNP system that was developed right here in Canada.”

....

Some people may distrust COVID-19 vaccines because they appear to come from huge corporations, but there are countless human beings behind these life-saving shots, he said.

MacLachlan urges Canadians to get their shot.

“At the end of the day, this technology was developed by young men and women scientists who really wanted to do what they could to help people,” he said.

“That's where it comes from. It doesn't come from some faceless multinational corporation. It's from the hearts and minds of people like myself, and hopefully that might help some Canadians.”

(Of course there are many more components to the vaccines)



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You also gotta hand it to globalism/capitalism/ big corporations. A big rollout this fast and this massive would never have been possible without it. It might have been contained in China without globalism, but it also could have spread out of control to Bubonic Plague levels.



China, Cuba and Russia made their own vaccines though and are doing fine with them.

China is 71% fully vaccinated (76% first dose), Cuba 44% (79% first dose), Russia behind at 29% (33% first dose).
The USA sits at 55% fully vaccinated (64% first dose) but does lead in total doses 391 million administered.

Capitalism doesn't seem to be much different when it comes to a fast rollout. Actually all the checks and balances to keep capitalism in check were the biggest hurdle and without governments making concessions there we would still be waiting for approval.

And it leads to this kind of crap
https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2021-02-23/held-to-ransom-pfizer-demands-governments-gamble-with-state-assets-to-secure-vaccine-deal

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/sep/10/pfizer-accused-of-holding-brazil-to-ransom-over-vaccine-contract-demands

People distrust big corporations as much as governments, it's a wash there lol.



Weekly update.

In total 3.17 million new cases were reported last week (down from 3.49 million) to a total of 235,039,923
Also another 54,584 additional deaths were reported (down from 58,204) to a total of 4,805,099

Cases and deaths are slightly rising again in Europe, slightly down in the USA

The continents

Asia reported 1.04 million new cases (down from 1.20 million) and 14,394 more deaths (down from 17,148)
North America reported 956K new cases (slightly down from 1.08 million) and 18,929 more deaths (down from 20,287)
Europe reported 893K new cases (slightly up from 831K) and 12,749 more deaths (slightly up from 12,245)
South America reported 168K new cases (down from 275K) and 4,920 more deaths (down from 5,594)
Africa reported 105K new cases (up from 87K) and 3,356 more deaths (up from 2,858)
Oceania reported 70.0K new cases (slightly up from 16.4K) and 236 deaths (172 last week)

Corners of the world


USA reported 774K new cases (down from 870K) and 13,691 more deaths (down from 14,579)
India reported 166K new cases (down from 207K) and 1,915 more deaths (slightly down from 2,127)
Brazil reported 118K new cases (down from 225K) and 3,594 more deaths (slightly down from 3,954)
Iran reported 92.4K new cases (down from 113K) and 1,871 more deaths (down from 2,356)
Canada reported 30.3K new cases (slightly up from 29.6K) and 301 deaths (250 last week)
South Korea reported 18.6K new cases (up from 13.2K) and 63 deaths (45 last week)
Japan reported 13.9K new cases (down from 24.4K) and 273 deaths (345 last week)
Australia reported 13.2K new cases (up from 11.7K) and 101 deaths (67 last week)
South Africa reported 9,965 new cases (down from 17.3K) and 738 deaths (1,015 last week)

Europe in detail

Ukraine still shooting up, UK and Russia heading up

I guess we reached the new normal, this level of infections and deaths seems to be acceptable for most countries. Meanwhile another study found at least one long term symptom in 37% of Covid-19 cases. Just get vaccinated.

Word vaccination rate is at 33.68% +1.3% (45.33% first dose)

About a month away from passing the 5 million (official) deaths.



It seems like cases are in retreat in most places with Eastern Europe being the notable exception.

Still somewhat concerned about vaccine durability... but... these vaccines are still almost a miracle. Intramuscular jabs (except for live attenuated vaccines) almost always fare poorly against respiratory infections. No IgA antibodies so you have to rely on IgG effectively leaking from the blood into the respiratory epithelium.

I assume nasal vaccines are coming but hard to say if they'll arrive in time to be necessary. It might be that three doses last for a long time, and so should the IgA protection from natural infection/breakthroughs.



 

 

 

 

 

The 7 day average is in decline here as well. So far the weather has been really nice, next the real test comes. More rain, gloomy weather, getting colder. And with the kids in school the colds are upon us again. Our youngest is sick, I'm feeling it as well. Whatever measures against Corona, it's not stopping the common cold. Now I realize how good it was, 'isolating' for 18 months. Never sick, not having to deal with sore throats, headaches and this awfully tired feeling. Early bedtime tonight!