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Forums - General Discussion - Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread

JRPGfan said:
haxxiy said:

Doesnt that picture show that from around July 1st, it was around 6% positivity rate, and by the end of it (data on chart) its around 13%-14% ?
That chart seems to show its on a upward trend no?

That was what lead me to believe, things where getting worse in the UK, with infections.

That is what I meant. The number of tests is relatively flat; thus, the positivity rate will be a function of the number of reported cases on any given date.

Just like the graph shows, it's higher in the seven days up to July 19th because the number of cases in that time frame is proportionally higher than the number of cases at the beginning of the month. Once cases drop, as long as they drop relatively faster than the number of tests drop, the positivity drops too.

numberwang said:

Looking at "covid deaths" in Brazil. They had a massive explosion of "covid deaths" following the introducing of the vaxx in January 2020. March-July 2021 were much worse compared to the same time frame in 2020.

Blame the Gamma variant, not the vaccine. It is some 70% more transmissible than the basal B.1 lineages that were circulating before. The levels of vaccination at the beginning of the year wouldn't even begin to make a dent in it.

JRPGfan said:


Also Brazil numbers, of death are so inaccurate, you basically cant really use them.

Dr Miguel Nicolelis, a Brazilian professor of neuroscience at Duke University, told the BBC:
"The country is in a nationwide hospital collapse right now - it's the first time in history the public health system has collapsed.

"If we can acquire the vaccine in large quantities, we could at least mitigate the situation."

The IHME actually estimated most Brazilian states tracked the number of deaths better than most US states or even European countries, as you can see from their ratio of excess deaths vs. Covid deaths map:

Careful with your sources too. Dr. Nicolelis, with all due respect, has come up with a number of questionable predictions that didn't come to pass, such as saying the city of Porto Alegre would see "corpses piling on the streets, poisoning water supplies" after opening up in April, but cases and deaths actually continued to fall.

He also, on more than one occasion, shared fake news, such as that of a picture claiming the smoke rising from a crematorium was due to the high number of corpses, while it was actually a test-run of the cremators from before the pandemic even started, and I'm not sure if the picture was even from the same city he claimed it was.



 

 

 

 

 

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numberwang said:

The graph is global "covid deaths". The risk groups (above 75 and morbid) are nearly completely vaxxed in every country around the world and yet "covid deaths" are increasing globally compared to last summer. You could cherry pick individual countries and time frames but the general trend is clear, more lockdowns and more vaxxes mean more covid deaths. Always compare summer to summer and winter to winter to get a more accurate comparison without seasonality effect.

The seasonal decline from winter to summer has been rebranded as vaccine success in the northern hemisphere but the southern hemisphere is doing worse than last winter and many countries in the north are experiencing summer waves now which did not happen in summer 2020 at all.

Not even 14% of the global population is fully vaccinated. The only places that have fully vaccinated the elderly are parts of Europe, Asia and North America. We can't really compare this summer to last summer due to the delta variant which is roughly twice as transmissible as the original strain from last summer. Even so the link between high cases and hospitalizations has almost been completely broken in countries with high vaccine uptake.



Here's the current state of vaccinations around the world

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/coronavirus-vaccination-tracker-how-many-people-in-canada-have-received-shots-1.5247509

The strain currently rampaging through Asia is about twice as infectious as the original strain they were dealing with in 2020.



None of these meandering responses can address the main issue. Covid deaths are increasing after ca. 4 billion doses of vaccines globally. Given "95% efficiency" claims that should never happen. 4 billion doses in 2021 should give better results than zero doses in 2020 in particular since these were prioritized for risk groups.

What we can see globally:

  1. There are more "covid deaths" in summer 2021 compared to summer 2020
  2. The are 4 billion doses of vaccines given in 2021 vs 0 in 2020

First sign of failure was this strange third wave in March/April 2021 right after mass vaccinations took off and now this plateau increase in summer 2021 vs 2020. Four billion doses and all we got was more "covid deaths".



numberwang said:

None of these meandering responses can address the main issue. Covid deaths are increasing after ca. 4 billion doses of vaccines globally. Given "95% efficiency" claims that should never happen. 4 billion doses in 2021 should give better results than zero doses in 2020 in particular since these were prioritized for risk groups.

What we can see globally:

  1. There are more "covid deaths" in summer 2021 compared to summer 2020
  2. The are 4 billion doses of vaccines given in 2021 vs 0 in 2020

First sign of failure was this strange third wave in March/April 2021 right after mass vaccinations took off and now this plateau increase in summer 2021 vs 2020. Four billion doses and all we got was more "covid deaths".

Your points have been addressed you just are either not listening or not capable of understanding what you are being told.



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I overlayed my world graph to compare 2020 with 2021

The solid lines are 2021, dotted lines are 2020.

Cases are much higher this year due to two main factors
- Impatience, people had enough of lockdowns and/or feel its safe to go back to normal now we have vaccines
- Far more contagious strains have evolved thanks to not properly stopping the spread when we had the chance

Most of the world is not fully vaccinated yet, those 4 billion doses is at most 2 billion fully vaccinated, which is at most 25% of the world population
Actually it's only 13.7% fully vaccinated and 27% with a first dose, heavily skewed to NA and Europe.

You can see in the graph that it is working in the USA with 50% fully vaccinated, lower death rates than last year and even with everything back to normal, cases are just about to start catching up with last year.

Europe went wild with re-opening though, too soon before vaccinations reached enough people and cases skyrocketed. Still the rise in deaths is far lower than it would have been without vaccinations. Europe has about 8x the reported cases as last year this time, and 'only' 2.6x the reported deaths. It is working, but people are simply too impatient and exponential growth will always win in the end.

For the world, nearly twice the amount of cases as last year this time (1.94x) vs 1.32x the amount of deaths as last year this time. With a global vaccination rate of 27/14%, that feels about 'right', actually a bit better than expected. (More cautious, earlier detection)



Covid-19, a history of failures.

14 days to flatten the curve -> fail

People made these great graphics of how it will work but computer models don't describe reality.

Zero-Covid -> fail

Today people pretend they didn't fall for this scam but they were fighting online for it as if it was the second coming - "just stay at home and the virus will be gone globally". Sure thing that works with a common cold virus. Anybody still believing in this?

Lockdowns -> fail

The bigger brother of both failed scams above, achieved nothing except the greatest robbery of the middle class in this century. Locking away non-risks groups and mandatory dust masks must have been an intentional clown world. People called it "science". 

Vaccines -> fail (you are here now)

Just vaxx the risk groups, everyone over 55, just about everyone and Covid will be gone. Fail, the vaccines are leaky and do not protect at all against infections and spreading. In fact, they seem to accelerate summer-active variations (Delta) as we can see in many countries with novel summer waves in 2021. The whole idea of "liberty through vaccination" and vaccine passports was build on the failed idea of a sterile vaccine. Fauci tries to rebrand the typical seasonal winter to summer decline as a vaccine success but winter numbers will go up again.

It will be just like the endemic flu with new variations every year. There have been so many billion doses of flu vaccines in the last decades and more people die from the flu than ever before (globally). Same story with Covid-vaccines.

Trudeau just ordered perpetual gen therapy for the next years to come, 60 million doses from Pfizer alone in 2024. He knows, numbers will go up in winter again and the old juice won't work anymore, probably never did.

Natural immunity -> win

The age old tested way of overcoming diseases. There was a study from Israel that former "covid-cases" had a much lower risk of being hospitalized compared to vaccinated people. Antibodies from 2019 don't work as well as the full width of the human immune system. Natural T-cells are more flexible against mutations and last for years. Natural immunity for non-risk groups (under 65) is the way to go. Some countries like Sweden and most third world countries (with zero lockdowns) should be very close.



Addendum

Specifically, the ministry’s study found that the Pfizer coronavirus vaccine was only 40% effective against symptomatic cases of COVID-19 and 39% effective at stopping infection at all against the Delta variant... The Israeli study showed that for people vaccinated more than six months ago, the effectiveness of the vaccine at stopping coronavirus dropped to as low as 16%.

https://www.jpost.com/%20israel-pfizer-news/is-israel-or-the-uk-right-when-it-comes-to-covid-19-vaccine-effectiveness-674766

Vaccines are losing efficiency fast, antibodies dwindle and new mutations rise.



numberwang said:

Addendum

Specifically, the ministry’s study found that the Pfizer coronavirus vaccine was only 40% effective against symptomatic cases of COVID-19 and 39% effective at stopping infection at all against the Delta variant... The Israeli study showed that for people vaccinated more than six months ago, the effectiveness of the vaccine at stopping coronavirus dropped to as low as 16%.

https://www.jpost.com/%20israel-pfizer-news/is-israel-or-the-uk-right-when-it-comes-to-covid-19-vaccine-effectiveness-674766

Vaccines are losing efficiency fast, antibodies dwindle and new mutations rise.

It did, however, show that the vaccine remains 91% effective against developing serious cases of the disease and 88% effective against hospitalization.

Maybe read the whole article first, considering it still goes against the idea that people shouldn't be getting vaccinations. It also mentions that Israel use more pcr cycles than most, which increases the liklihood of false positives. 



numberwang said:

Covid-19, a history of failures.

14 days to flatten the curve -> fail

People made these great graphics of how it will work but computer models don't describe reality.

Zero-Covid -> fail

Today people pretend they didn't fall for this scam but they were fighting online for it as if it was the second coming - "just stay at home and the virus will be gone globally". Sure thing that works with a common cold virus. Anybody still believing in this?

Lockdowns -> fail

The bigger brother of both failed scams above, achieved nothing except the greatest robbery of the middle class in this century. Locking away non-risks groups and mandatory dust masks must have been an intentional clown world. People called it "science". 

Vaccines -> fail (you are here now)

Just vaxx the risk groups, everyone over 55, just about everyone and Covid will be gone. Fail, the vaccines are leaky and do not protect at all against infections and spreading. In fact, they seem to accelerate summer-active variations (Delta) as we can see in many countries with novel summer waves in 2021. The whole idea of "liberty through vaccination" and vaccine passports was build on the failed idea of a sterile vaccine. Fauci tries to rebrand the typical seasonal winter to summer decline as a vaccine success but winter numbers will go up again.

It will be just like the endemic flu with new variations every year. There have been so many billion doses of flu vaccines in the last decades and more people die from the flu than ever before (globally). Same story with Covid-vaccines.

Trudeau just ordered perpetual gen therapy for the next years to come, 60 million doses from Pfizer alone in 2024. He knows, numbers will go up in winter again and the old juice won't work anymore, probably never did.

Natural immunity -> win

The age old tested way of overcoming diseases. There was a study from Israel that former "covid-cases" had a much lower risk of being hospitalized compared to vaccinated people. Antibodies from 2019 don't work as well as the full width of the human immune system. Natural T-cells are more flexible against mutations and last for years. Natural immunity for non-risk groups (under 65) is the way to go. Some countries like Sweden and most third world countries (with zero lockdowns) should be very close.

True, computer models don't take the stupidity level of the majority into account. Even a small minority can screw it up for everyone, see Australia. NZ however did achieve all those goals.

Going for natural immunity without measures would have killed tens of millions and done far more damage to the economy, likely resulted in chaos and civil unrest when the killer wave reached its peak with half the county home sick and bodies piling up everywhere.

Anyway, all you're saying is humans are hopeless and deserve all this crap. It all comes down to, it doesn't apply to me, I can do what I want, don't inconvenience my life.

Btw Sweden had plenty restrictions, most voluntary but also mandatory. It's a myth Sweden had no 'lockdowns'
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/can-europe-make-it/swedens-failed-covid-strategy-leaves-the-country-deeply-divided/