In western countries, I imagine people having a gaming PC and a current gen consoles is somewhat common. Globally many PC gamers are not using consoles for various reasons. Either way, there is a larger audience MS can reach supporting PC than Xbox could ever alone.

MS isn't just in the services business, they also rely on revenue generated by software sales. Hence, their sales can increase from PC support and they can push Gamepass there as well.

Steam is still the king of digital gaming sales, but there are other stores selling popular games not found on Steam. Therefore PC gamers are becoming accustom to using programs beyond Steam. More people are now using the Microsoft Store because it has great games being added, but MS still adds some games to Steam to generate revenue.

I may be wrong but no matter how flexible it is, usually if something is designed for one purpose all other use will be less optimal. So I don't think it will be anywhere near that we will get games tossing out RT to use those cores (that probably won't run up the processing capability of what the other parts of the GPU) to do other stuff a little better.

For me seems more like a situation of the X360 vs PS3, that they got the "free AA solution" because of the differences of the GPU, and instead of using that power to something else that would give they more headaches they just used a good AA standard for most games.

While MS made 2 lack luster Gears games with a 82 metacritic score that sold 20 times less of what Gears 3 did. 

It might be a good downclock, like it happened with the PS3's RSX, for all we know ¯|_(ツ)_/¯ I mean, it necessarily has to do with clocks this late in the game. Or maybe disabled parts of the chip, if you're really feeling it's your lucky day to bet.

(Some rumors once circulated about the PS4 doubling its RAM because 2 gb chips were suddenly available in 2013 and yadda yadda but these have been dismissed since).

Or Sony are having a hard time hitting 2ghz on their chip.

According to Redgamingtech this is the PS5 devkit and it looks very similiar to oberon.

I guess it's possible you and itsmeintel are correct that Oberon is just an old chip that Sony is currently using in their devkits and they are making a new chip to hit 11TF if redgamingtech is correct.

That's exactly the point I am making. Many in the west simply opt for consoles because its a relatively cheap box that's easy to use. Console gamers aren't gonna buy more expensive PCs to play Xbox games. Meanwhile people who buy expensive PCs aren't necessarily interested in buying a Xbox under any circumstance. Millions apparently own Halo Reach on PC now, safe bet most of that is not Xbox owners.

Maybe Gamepass on PC also looks like a better deal if you live in a region where gaming, especially console gaming is expensive. They are bringing the service to a lot of countries Xbox simply isn't that relevant.

People say MS needs to reach out internationally with Xbox, but I don't think its realistic for various reasons. The easiest way to get more people playing their games and potentially trying Gamepass is put it on a popular platform internationally, PC.

RedGamingTech is not an outlet I would take seriously.
They waffle on about every single possible rumor, nuance and speculation and often try to assert it as fact and tend to favor AMD over Intel and nVidia.

Obviously you are only speaking in hypothetical's rather than asserting it as definitive?

They don't receive a cut of the vast majority of software sales on PC, they do receive a cut from all sales on Xbox.

Irrelevant. There have always been multiple stores on PC. The bulk of sales is still Steam and will continue to be Steam for the immediate future.

Microsoft has also historically tried to skip Steam in order to favour their own distribution store, Halo Wars 2 and Gears of War 4 being a prime example.
Titles like Age of Empires: Definitive edition also didn't get a Steam release until much much later... Mostly because people demanded it.

Microsoft never bothered to relist Fable 3 either once it ran out of digital copies to sell.

And then you have the issue of cross play, you can fire up Halo Wars DE on Steam and you will not be able to play with those from the Windows store... Considering that game has a non-existent multiplayer population, that's a big oversight, same thing happened with Gears.

Fact is the Windows store is garbage, it's a better attempt than Games for Windows Live, but it's not a store that PC gamers have resonated with... And I am glad Microsoft is embracing Steam again.

I thought Gears 5 did well and was a return to form?

Not all PC's are expensive.

PC Games are cheaper.


I think outside of Western Markets, Microsoft leveraging the PC is probably their best bet, because lets face it... They are never going to be taken seriously in places like Japan, so with you there.

Hypothetical? Not so much, we know PC gaming and console gaming is common in the west. In many countries consoles can be cost prohibitive so they opt for PC.

I wasn't suggesting MS gets money from all PC software sales, I was saying MS relies on revenue from sales of their games along with Gamepass subscriptions on PC. Certainly revenue has increased with the added PC support.

We already discussed Fable 3 in the past. I suggested the biggest reason you can't buy it anymore is GFW is dead and difficult to get working.

Windows Store is okay. Its better than GFW and more active. Its worth noting its also a popular store for playing mobile games on a Windows device. Many of the popular games in that store is not stuff you'll find on Steam.

Goopy makes a good point. Gears 5 only scored a 84, that means its trash.

I agree not all PCs are expensive. In fact, many of the most active PC games don't require great specs. If you want to play AAA games though the cheapest route with good results is often a console during a holiday price cut.

I agree PC games tend to be cheaper, also easier to steal. A big reason PC is popular in some regions.

Xbox would be taken seriously in Japan if it had many games they wanted exclusively. Playstation only thrives in Japan because of great 3rd party support, certainly not because Japan loves Sony games.

Obviously you are only speaking in hypothetical's rather than asserting it as definitive?

They don't receive a cut of the vast majority of software sales on PC, they do receive a cut from all sales on Xbox.

Irrelevant. There have always been multiple stores on PC. The bulk of sales is still Steam and will continue to be Steam for the immediate future.

Microsoft has also historically tried to skip Steam in order to favour their own distribution store, Halo Wars 2 and Gears of War 4 being a prime example.
Titles like Age of Empires: Definitive edition also didn't get a Steam release until much much later... Mostly because people demanded it.

Microsoft never bothered to relist Fable 3 either once it ran out of digital copies to sell.

And then you have the issue of cross play, you can fire up Halo Wars DE on Steam and you will not be able to play with those from the Windows store... Considering that game has a non-existent multiplayer population, that's a big oversight, same thing happened with Gears.

Fact is the Windows store is garbage, it's a better attempt than Games for Windows Live, but it's not a store that PC gamers have resonated with... And I am glad Microsoft is embracing Steam again.

The free AA didn't stick around forever though. Later in the Xbox 360's life developers didn't bother to use it, instead opting for Morphological Anti-Aliasing which is just a post-process filter because it was cheap, they then used that resource for other tasks.

I thought Gears 5 did well and was a return to form?

The 2GB chips didn't just appear overnight either, they were on roadmaps for a long time and DRAM manufacturers were stockpiling at some point as well, Sony had a heads-up well in advance before the Playstation 4 launched.

RedGamingTech is not an outlet I would take seriously.
They waffle on about every single possible rumor, nuance and speculation and often try to assert it as fact and tend to favor AMD over Intel and nVidia.

Not all PC's are expensive.

PC Games are cheaper.


I think outside of Western Markets, Microsoft leveraging the PC is probably their best bet, because lets face it... They are never going to be taken seriously in places like Japan, so with you there.

Do PC gamers generally buy consoles in general? There are parts of the world where many opt for PC over console as well.

People on the internet fake concern about Xbox losing sales to PC. However, I imagine MS is instead focusing on the audience that may not do much if any console gaming.

For example, Halo MCC is becoming a huge is hit on PC likely because many who just game on PC finally have access to it. An audience that wasnt going to buy an Xbox under any circumstance. Hence, more revenue via an audience that may not use consoles.

Why are people buying Halo MCC now? Why didnt they buy a X1 years ago to play it? Maybe because they dont want to use consoles. Maybe?

If Xbox is 12tf RDNA that is equivalent to 15+tf on GCN. TBH I will be surprised if this is true but these are amazing specs even for 600$ console. Moreover I think they are going to release all their exclusives on gamepass ? Not sure how Microsoft is going to make money but it is great value for consumer. It even looks like mini ATX case.

Right, Epic made a fortune with Fortnite. Does that mean Epic can only work on a single project at once? Epic also sold Gears well before Fortnite became a success. At that point they were working on multiple projects, not just Fortnite.

Okay, you're saying a bunch of nonsense now. On Metacritic Gears Ultimate got a 82, Gears 4 got a 84 and Gear 5 got a 84. All respectable scores for products that don't necessarily appeal to critics. Fortnite on PS4 had 78 when it launched.

Gears 4 or 5 didn't sell as much as Gears 3, but does that mean they're failures? Absolutely not. Your assumption of "sold 20 times less than Gears 3" is incorrect.

Are we now pretending mega popular IPs are now the only incentive to buying a console? They have the IPs you mentioned, Hellblade 2 was announced, Outer Worlds sequel may be exclusive, Obsidian and Rare showed new IPs and its safe to assume other new IPs will come. Then you have the biggest reason people buy Playstation and Xbox consoles, multiplat games like Fortnite.

MS claimed Gears 5 sold great, but I'm sure you'll be skeptical about that. Meanwhile Halo Infinite could be a great success. I don't think these IPs will break records, but they seem to do well.

What is this about anyway? Are you under the impression I am trying to have a console war debate? Grow up, I'm just looking at the facts as a consumer that enjoys both really.

I wouldn't necessarily call Gears 5 a failure. But if Uncharted 5 came out and scored a 82 on Metacritic, while selling 20 times less than part 3, I'm sure Sony wouldn't consider it a success either. And no I'm not making that up...

As analyst Daniel Ahmad notes, Gears of War 4 sold 4.5 times better in its launch week, and Gears of War 3 – at the height of the Xbox 360’s success sold 20 times better.

Truth is that MS has historically failed in running their first party franchises and studios. I mean why do you think Bungie left them or why 95% of the original staff of Rare left the company? MS simply doesn't give their developers the creative freedom to persue new franchises. That's why MS is never going to beat Sony with their exclusives. Therefore, it would make sense for MS to release a more powerful console next gen as that would at least be a proper reason to pick the next Xbox over the ps5. I've never seen any numbers on how the Xbox one X sold compared to the ps4 pro, but I'm guessing the X outsold the pro. If the same thing will happen with a mass market "regular" console is the question, of course. Especially if they plan to sell it for $599 or more, but I get MS's logic behind it. 

I wouldn't necessarily call Gears 5 a failure. But if Uncharted 5 came out and scored a 82 on Metacritic, while selling 20 times less than part 3, I'm sure Sony wouldn't consider it a success either. And no I'm not making that up...

As analyst Daniel Ahmad notes, Gears of War 4 sold 4.5 times better in its launch week, and Gears of War 3 – at the height of the Xbox 360’s success sold 20 times better.

Truth is that MS has historically failed in running their first party franchises and studios. I mean why do you think Bungie left them or why 95% of the original staff of Rare left the company? MS simply doesn't give their developers the creative freedom to persue new franchises. That's why MS is never going to beat Sony with their exclusives. Therefore, it would make sense for MS to release a more powerful console next gen as that would at least be a proper reason to pick the next Xbox over the ps5. I've never seen any numbers on how the Xbox one X sold compared to the ps4 pro, but I'm guessing the X outsold the pro. If the same thing will happen with a mass market "regular" console is the question, of course. Especially if they plan to sell it for $599 or more, but I get MS's logic behind it.