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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Half-Life: Alyx launches March 2020

the-pi-guy said:

SvennoJ said:
I'll remain cautiously optimistic as that trailer has bull shot written all over it. I also wonder how it will work when they are going to support all movement schemes, room scale, standing, sitting, teleportation, shift, continuous with analog stick (no info for rotation) while also supporting both finger tracking and trigger based.
https://half-life.com/en/alyx/vr
Doom has shown how badly that can end up. By not committing to any one control scheme, compromises will have to be made. So cautiously optimistic.

VR devs are getting better at supporting multiple options though.  

SvennoJ said:
I'll wait for reviews instead of putting blind faith into a developer who hasn't produced anything significant in years... I've played enough VR to say that what was shown in that trailer will never be as good in actual game. However walking around in the half life universe does already make it worth putting up with motion controls.

>I'll wait for reviews instead of putting blind faith into a developer who hasn't produced anything significant in years

1.) They produced The Lab, while it's a demo it's more substantial VR game than most full priced titles.

2.)  Campo Santo is also helping with the development.  

3.)  I also want to throw out there that Valve practically invented the VR industry.  I'd trust them to make the right decisions.

>I've played enough VR to say that what was shown in that trailer will never be as good in actual game.

What in the trailer won't be as good?  I'm also not sure what would be a bull shot.  They've been working on this with a lot more resources and time than Boneworks, and that game is ridiculously impressive.  

The perfect matching of the hand movements and objects in the trailer. I have to see it to believe it :) I imagine it to be more on the level of Job simulator in reality. My had movements aren't that steady anymore in real life!

I have not played the lab though, pc exclusive I guess? It's just that motion controls always feel awkward to me so I remain skeptical until proven wrong.



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the-pi-guy said:
SvennoJ said:

The perfect matching of the hand movements and objects in the trailer. I have to see it to believe it :) I imagine it to be more on the level of Job simulator in reality. My had movements aren't that steady anymore in real life!

I have not played the lab though, pc exclusive I guess? It's just that motion controls always feel awkward to me so I remain skeptical until proven wrong.

Have you played PCVR? 

Motion tracking on the PC headsets are leagues ahead. The Rift is much better than PSVR.  I have absolutely no problems with it and vastly more reliable.  Vive is supposed to be better, and the Index has better tracking yet.  

No I have not. But even when PSVR tracking works well there's still that feeling of disconnect and awkwardness. The move controllers are probably to blame for that. What I miss is when you manipulate objects in real life with both hands at the same time. Turning something over in VR becomes an exercise in trying to bend your wrist in ways that don't work. Simply having your other hand assist is very difficult in VR. Perhaps the index controllers solve that by providing finger tracking (if they do that). The human hand is such a complex tool that a simple grab / let go state is not getting anywhere near intuitive handling of objects.

Anyway I'm very curious to see how it turns out. For now I've gone back to preferring a controller over motion controls, except for beat saber. I finally got the setup good enough to get the platinum trophy! Placing the camera a foot higher suddenly increased my scores enough to get SS ranking. So finicky!



the-pi-guy said:
SvennoJ said:

No I have not. But even when PSVR tracking works well there's still that feeling of disconnect and awkwardness. The move controllers are probably to blame for that. What I miss is when you manipulate objects in real life with both hands at the same time. Turning something over in VR becomes an exercise in trying to bend your wrist in ways that don't work. Simply having your other hand assist is very difficult in VR. Perhaps the index controllers solve that by providing finger tracking (if they do that). The human hand is such a complex tool that a simple grab / let go state is not getting anywhere near intuitive handling of objects.

Anyway I'm very curious to see how it turns out. For now I've gone back to preferring a controller over motion controls, except for beat saber. I finally got the setup good enough to get the platinum trophy! Placing the camera a foot higher suddenly increased my scores enough to get SS ranking. So finicky!

>The move controllers are probably to blame for that.

Probably.  I don't really have that experience with the Touch controllers.

>providing finger tracking (if they do that)

They do finger tracking and pressure measuring.


These are all from when they showed Boneworks to someone using the Index controllers.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/UglySomeAntarcticgiantpetrel-mobile.mp4

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/MemorableYoungAlbatross-mobile.mp4

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/SaneRepentantAnchovy-mobile.mp4

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/QuaintWiltedGermanspitz-mobile.mp4

The Touch controllers are good, and the Index controllers are a league ahead of them.

Seeing that recent clip of behind the scenes for Alyx, those Index controllers look like the best on the market right now. The amount of dexterity you get and see from them on-screen just looks all kinds of fantastic (slow-mo scene of reloading the rifle is also kickass too).



Step right up come on in, feel the buzz in your veins, I'm like an chemical electrical right into your brain and I'm the one who killed the Radio, soon you'll all see

So pay up motherfuckers you belong to "V"

https://youtu.be/w8a1BAolFIk?t=205

VR just offers gameplay mechanics that are simply not possible on flatscreen games. 



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Peh said:

https://youtu.be/w8a1BAolFIk?t=205

VR just offers gameplay mechanics that are simply not possible on flatscreen games. 

This was exactly the video I was on about in my above comment.

I'm not sure why people are begging for this to be made M+K compatible, because even the devs have stated that this game was made entirely for and only for VR input, not anything else. This sort of game just wouldn't work right with anything else but the headsets/VR controllers it's made for. 



Step right up come on in, feel the buzz in your veins, I'm like an chemical electrical right into your brain and I'm the one who killed the Radio, soon you'll all see

So pay up motherfuckers you belong to "V"

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Peh said:

https://youtu.be/w8a1BAolFIk?t=205

VR just offers gameplay mechanics that are simply not possible on flatscreen games. 

That looks more like what I expect. Very cool yet also pretty clumsy and messy. I'm still on the fence on how this will go in a serious game environment. It's good for a laugh anyway. His wrists bending so uncomfortably all the time (in game) makes me feel kinda nauseous lol.

Video games have also been about feeling like a super hero that can do everything well. This is more like playing Inspector Gadget or Clouseau. Amazing tech but do the masses actually want this?

I also wonder what Valve will do to support room scale, standing and sitting all at the same time. The conversion of Fantastic contraption to be played sitting on psvr hampered it a lot. Then with the various movement schemes and different controllers they would basically have to make 18 different combinations work in the game. The Solus Project simply let you skip certain puzzles that weren't compatible with the current movement scheme plus I still needed to switch back to teleportation now and then to be able to reach certain places.

I really hope it doesn't become a jack of all trades, master of none type situation. I just don't want to get all hyped and then be disappointed. Doom VFR was really disappointing and didn't work well with any of the 3 control schemes. I tried them all and ended up switching between them all to get through the game. So far RE7 is still my fondest memory of playing a 'realistic' full game in VR and that used the controller. I did 5 play throughs of that and survive the night mini game was so good in VR :) I'm hoping HL Alyx can finally dethrone RE7.



John2290 said:
SvennoJ said:

No I have not. But even when PSVR tracking works well there's still that feeling of disconnect and awkwardness. The move controllers are probably to blame for that. What I miss is when you manipulate objects in real life with both hands at the same time. Turning something over in VR becomes an exercise in trying to bend your wrist in ways that don't work. Simply having your other hand assist is very difficult in VR. Perhaps the index controllers solve that by providing finger tracking (if they do that). The human hand is such a complex tool that a simple grab / let go state is not getting anywhere near intuitive handling of objects.

Anyway I'm very curious to see how it turns out. For now I've gone back to preferring a controller over motion controls, except for beat saber. I finally got the setup good enough to get the platinum trophy! Placing the camera a foot higher suddenly increased my scores enough to get SS ranking. So finicky!

Ahem. Blood & Truth. Ahem. 

What about it? That's the follow up to the London Heist right? I have it sitting on the shelf, perhaps I should get off my ass and play it.



John2290 said:
SvennoJ said:

What about it? That's the follow up to the London Heist right? I have it sitting on the shelf, perhaps I should get off my ass and play it.

It has outstanding motion controls. A perfect blend between realism and functionality and everything is adjustable to your scale on the fly at any time. Yup, you should get off your ass and play it, it's an amazing ride from start to finish on nearly all fronts. Not just a good VR game but and actual top teir game. 

Ok, installing and patching. 6.2 GB patch, always nice to get the better version when you totally forget about buying something lol.

First impressions: Bad control scheme, gun getting stuck in scenery, can't holster, can't move. It looks great, but it's more of a point and click adventure. Biggest problem, I'm playing it standing which doesn't work at all when the game expects you to be sitting. Got to get a chair now lol.

It looks great and I'll play more of it but it has all the immersion breaking problems. My bad, I was going at it super hot style but you're supposed to stay seated in the same spot. I switched to the DS4 to see if you get to move around with that but no, your hands are simply tied together. Get chair, back to move controls.

Last edited by SvennoJ - on 23 November 2019

SvennoJ said:
Peh said:

https://youtu.be/w8a1BAolFIk?t=205

VR just offers gameplay mechanics that are simply not possible on flatscreen games. 

That looks more like what I expect. Very cool yet also pretty clumsy and messy. I'm still on the fence on how this will go in a serious game environment. It's good for a laugh anyway. His wrists bending so uncomfortably all the time (in game) makes me feel kinda nauseous lol.

Video games have also been about feeling like a super hero that can do everything well. This is more like playing Inspector Gadget or Clouseau. Amazing tech but do the masses actually want this?

I also wonder what Valve will do to support room scale, standing and sitting all at the same time. The conversion of Fantastic contraption to be played sitting on psvr hampered it a lot. Then with the various movement schemes and different controllers they would basically have to make 18 different combinations work in the game. The Solus Project simply let you skip certain puzzles that weren't compatible with the current movement scheme plus I still needed to switch back to teleportation now and then to be able to reach certain places.

I really hope it doesn't become a jack of all trades, master of none type situation. I just don't want to get all hyped and then be disappointed. Doom VFR was really disappointing and didn't work well with any of the 3 control schemes. I tried them all and ended up switching between them all to get through the game. So far RE7 is still my fondest memory of playing a 'realistic' full game in VR and that used the controller. I did 5 play throughs of that and survive the night mini game was so good in VR :) I'm hoping HL Alyx can finally dethrone RE7.

I'm personally not a fan of having everything physics based like they did in this game. Same is being done in Blade & Sorcery. The body in VR ends up in weird position because of that and it looks arkward when holding a gun. Thus I prefer the flying hands option.

I personally don't follow that "super hero that can do everything well" statement. Everything that I got from PSVR is that it's a neat introduction to VR, but you reach your limits very fast on what VR can actually do. Therefor PSVR and PC VR is a night and day difference. PSVR just lack the gameplay mechanics that are possible on PC due to the limitation of controller inputs. One thing on PC VR FPS is the possibility to reload your gun on your own by doing each single step. And this alone is very satisfying to have the feeling of being in control. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tl-857Fl7po

As I am aware of, the PC VR controllers have all the same amount of buttons and inputs. The only exception are the Index controllers, which got finger track and pressure detection as well as a few more buttons, how that is being actually implemented into the game, I don't know. Room scale and standing are pretty much identical, since you usually stand in both, but standing is limited by the circle beneath your feet, yet you can still ignore it and walk around with the risk of running into you own furniture or wall. Room scale is just a bigger space you can freely walk around. Only a tiny fraction of PC VR games actually do use this feature for playing their games. I personally use standing with locomotion my preferred way of playing all VR games. Meaning, walking with the controller by using the trackpad for up, down and strafe, and turning myself in real. Teleportation is good for people getting motion sick, but I don't have that issue and it takes me out of the immersion. I just want to walk around and enjoy the environment like that. 

I guess that PSVR is the only way you've experienced VR as of now? Sadly there is no RE7 for PC VR :( But checking some videos on Youtube, there is no real motion controls for RE7, right?

Nevertheless, the reloading animation on HL:A is a bit too smooth from my experience with reloading guns on your own in other games. 

If you ever go into PC VR. Get Pavlov VR: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5zy5Cex0DU (Viewer discretion is advised) I imagine that the gunplay in HL:A will be very similar to this game. 



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Dulfite said:
People have been waiting for HL3 for eons and now it's a VR game, appealing to a small demographic? This is funny lol

This. Cutting out people who don't have a gaming PC and/or play exclusively on console, and people want to praise them after all their transgressions?