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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Half-Life: Alyx launches March 2020

https://youtu.be/w8a1BAolFIk?t=205

VR just offers gameplay mechanics that are simply not possible on flatscreen games. 



Intel Core i7 8700K | 32 GB DDR 4 PC 3200 | ROG STRIX Z370-F Gaming | RTX 3090 FE| Crappy Monitor| HTC Vive Pro :3

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Peh said:

https://youtu.be/w8a1BAolFIk?t=205

VR just offers gameplay mechanics that are simply not possible on flatscreen games. 

This was exactly the video I was on about in my above comment.

I'm not sure why people are begging for this to be made M+K compatible, because even the devs have stated that this game was made entirely for and only for VR input, not anything else. This sort of game just wouldn't work right with anything else but the headsets/VR controllers it's made for. 



Peh said:

https://youtu.be/w8a1BAolFIk?t=205

VR just offers gameplay mechanics that are simply not possible on flatscreen games. 

That looks more like what I expect. Very cool yet also pretty clumsy and messy. I'm still on the fence on how this will go in a serious game environment. It's good for a laugh anyway. His wrists bending so uncomfortably all the time (in game) makes me feel kinda nauseous lol.

Video games have also been about feeling like a super hero that can do everything well. This is more like playing Inspector Gadget or Clouseau. Amazing tech but do the masses actually want this?

I also wonder what Valve will do to support room scale, standing and sitting all at the same time. The conversion of Fantastic contraption to be played sitting on psvr hampered it a lot. Then with the various movement schemes and different controllers they would basically have to make 18 different combinations work in the game. The Solus Project simply let you skip certain puzzles that weren't compatible with the current movement scheme plus I still needed to switch back to teleportation now and then to be able to reach certain places.

I really hope it doesn't become a jack of all trades, master of none type situation. I just don't want to get all hyped and then be disappointed. Doom VFR was really disappointing and didn't work well with any of the 3 control schemes. I tried them all and ended up switching between them all to get through the game. So far RE7 is still my fondest memory of playing a 'realistic' full game in VR and that used the controller. I did 5 play throughs of that and survive the night mini game was so good in VR :) I'm hoping HL Alyx can finally dethrone RE7.



John2290 said:
SvennoJ said:

No I have not. But even when PSVR tracking works well there's still that feeling of disconnect and awkwardness. The move controllers are probably to blame for that. What I miss is when you manipulate objects in real life with both hands at the same time. Turning something over in VR becomes an exercise in trying to bend your wrist in ways that don't work. Simply having your other hand assist is very difficult in VR. Perhaps the index controllers solve that by providing finger tracking (if they do that). The human hand is such a complex tool that a simple grab / let go state is not getting anywhere near intuitive handling of objects.

Anyway I'm very curious to see how it turns out. For now I've gone back to preferring a controller over motion controls, except for beat saber. I finally got the setup good enough to get the platinum trophy! Placing the camera a foot higher suddenly increased my scores enough to get SS ranking. So finicky!

Ahem. Blood & Truth. Ahem. 

What about it? That's the follow up to the London Heist right? I have it sitting on the shelf, perhaps I should get off my ass and play it.



John2290 said:
SvennoJ said:

What about it? That's the follow up to the London Heist right? I have it sitting on the shelf, perhaps I should get off my ass and play it.

It has outstanding motion controls. A perfect blend between realism and functionality and everything is adjustable to your scale on the fly at any time. Yup, you should get off your ass and play it, it's an amazing ride from start to finish on nearly all fronts. Not just a good VR game but and actual top teir game. 

Ok, installing and patching. 6.2 GB patch, always nice to get the better version when you totally forget about buying something lol.

First impressions: Bad control scheme, gun getting stuck in scenery, can't holster, can't move. It looks great, but it's more of a point and click adventure. Biggest problem, I'm playing it standing which doesn't work at all when the game expects you to be sitting. Got to get a chair now lol.

It looks great and I'll play more of it but it has all the immersion breaking problems. My bad, I was going at it super hot style but you're supposed to stay seated in the same spot. I switched to the DS4 to see if you get to move around with that but no, your hands are simply tied together. Get chair, back to move controls.

Last edited by SvennoJ - on 23 November 2019

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SvennoJ said:
Peh said:

https://youtu.be/w8a1BAolFIk?t=205

VR just offers gameplay mechanics that are simply not possible on flatscreen games. 

That looks more like what I expect. Very cool yet also pretty clumsy and messy. I'm still on the fence on how this will go in a serious game environment. It's good for a laugh anyway. His wrists bending so uncomfortably all the time (in game) makes me feel kinda nauseous lol.

Video games have also been about feeling like a super hero that can do everything well. This is more like playing Inspector Gadget or Clouseau. Amazing tech but do the masses actually want this?

I also wonder what Valve will do to support room scale, standing and sitting all at the same time. The conversion of Fantastic contraption to be played sitting on psvr hampered it a lot. Then with the various movement schemes and different controllers they would basically have to make 18 different combinations work in the game. The Solus Project simply let you skip certain puzzles that weren't compatible with the current movement scheme plus I still needed to switch back to teleportation now and then to be able to reach certain places.

I really hope it doesn't become a jack of all trades, master of none type situation. I just don't want to get all hyped and then be disappointed. Doom VFR was really disappointing and didn't work well with any of the 3 control schemes. I tried them all and ended up switching between them all to get through the game. So far RE7 is still my fondest memory of playing a 'realistic' full game in VR and that used the controller. I did 5 play throughs of that and survive the night mini game was so good in VR :) I'm hoping HL Alyx can finally dethrone RE7.

I'm personally not a fan of having everything physics based like they did in this game. Same is being done in Blade & Sorcery. The body in VR ends up in weird position because of that and it looks arkward when holding a gun. Thus I prefer the flying hands option.

I personally don't follow that "super hero that can do everything well" statement. Everything that I got from PSVR is that it's a neat introduction to VR, but you reach your limits very fast on what VR can actually do. Therefor PSVR and PC VR is a night and day difference. PSVR just lack the gameplay mechanics that are possible on PC due to the limitation of controller inputs. One thing on PC VR FPS is the possibility to reload your gun on your own by doing each single step. And this alone is very satisfying to have the feeling of being in control. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tl-857Fl7po

As I am aware of, the PC VR controllers have all the same amount of buttons and inputs. The only exception are the Index controllers, which got finger track and pressure detection as well as a few more buttons, how that is being actually implemented into the game, I don't know. Room scale and standing are pretty much identical, since you usually stand in both, but standing is limited by the circle beneath your feet, yet you can still ignore it and walk around with the risk of running into you own furniture or wall. Room scale is just a bigger space you can freely walk around. Only a tiny fraction of PC VR games actually do use this feature for playing their games. I personally use standing with locomotion my preferred way of playing all VR games. Meaning, walking with the controller by using the trackpad for up, down and strafe, and turning myself in real. Teleportation is good for people getting motion sick, but I don't have that issue and it takes me out of the immersion. I just want to walk around and enjoy the environment like that. 

I guess that PSVR is the only way you've experienced VR as of now? Sadly there is no RE7 for PC VR :( But checking some videos on Youtube, there is no real motion controls for RE7, right?

Nevertheless, the reloading animation on HL:A is a bit too smooth from my experience with reloading guns on your own in other games. 

If you ever go into PC VR. Get Pavlov VR: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5zy5Cex0DU (Viewer discretion is advised) I imagine that the gunplay in HL:A will be very similar to this game. 



Intel Core i7 8700K | 32 GB DDR 4 PC 3200 | ROG STRIX Z370-F Gaming | RTX 3090 FE| Crappy Monitor| HTC Vive Pro :3

Dulfite said:
People have been waiting for HL3 for eons and now it's a VR game, appealing to a small demographic? This is funny lol

This. Cutting out people who don't have a gaming PC and/or play exclusively on console, and people want to praise them after all their transgressions? 



Peh said:
SvennoJ said:

That looks more like what I expect. Very cool yet also pretty clumsy and messy. I'm still on the fence on how this will go in a serious game environment. It's good for a laugh anyway. His wrists bending so uncomfortably all the time (in game) makes me feel kinda nauseous lol.

Video games have also been about feeling like a super hero that can do everything well. This is more like playing Inspector Gadget or Clouseau. Amazing tech but do the masses actually want this?

I also wonder what Valve will do to support room scale, standing and sitting all at the same time. The conversion of Fantastic contraption to be played sitting on psvr hampered it a lot. Then with the various movement schemes and different controllers they would basically have to make 18 different combinations work in the game. The Solus Project simply let you skip certain puzzles that weren't compatible with the current movement scheme plus I still needed to switch back to teleportation now and then to be able to reach certain places.

I really hope it doesn't become a jack of all trades, master of none type situation. I just don't want to get all hyped and then be disappointed. Doom VFR was really disappointing and didn't work well with any of the 3 control schemes. I tried them all and ended up switching between them all to get through the game. So far RE7 is still my fondest memory of playing a 'realistic' full game in VR and that used the controller. I did 5 play throughs of that and survive the night mini game was so good in VR :) I'm hoping HL Alyx can finally dethrone RE7.

I'm personally not a fan of having everything physics based like they did in this game. Same is being done in Blade & Sorcery. The body in VR ends up in weird position because of that and it looks arkward when holding a gun. Thus I prefer the flying hands option.

I personally don't follow that "super hero that can do everything well" statement. Everything that I got from PSVR is that it's a neat introduction to VR, but you reach your limits very fast on what VR can actually do. Therefor PSVR and PC VR is a night and day difference. PSVR just lack the gameplay mechanics that are possible on PC due to the limitation of controller inputs. One thing on PC VR FPS is the possibility to reload your gun on your own by doing each single step. And this alone is very satisfying to have the feeling of being in control. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tl-857Fl7po

As I am aware of, the PC VR controllers have all the same amount of buttons and inputs. The only exception are the Index controllers, which got finger track and pressure detection as well as a few more buttons, how that is being actually implemented into the game, I don't know. Room scale and standing are pretty much identical, since you usually stand in both, but standing is limited by the circle beneath your feet, yet you can still ignore it and walk around with the risk of running into you own furniture or wall. Room scale is just a bigger space you can freely walk around. Only a tiny fraction of PC VR games actually do use this feature for playing their games. I personally use standing with locomotion my preferred way of playing all VR games. Meaning, walking with the controller by using the trackpad for up, down and strafe, and turning myself in real. Teleportation is good for people getting motion sick, but I don't have that issue and it takes me out of the immersion. I just want to walk around and enjoy the environment like that. 

I guess that PSVR is the only way you've experienced VR as of now? Sadly there is no RE7 for PC VR :( But checking some videos on Youtube, there is no real motion controls for RE7, right?

Nevertheless, the reloading animation on HL:A is a bit too smooth from my experience with reloading guns on your own in other games. 

If you ever go into PC VR. Get Pavlov VR: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5zy5Cex0DU (Viewer discretion is advised) I imagine that the gunplay in HL:A will be very similar to this game.

RE7 works with head aiming and DS4 for everything else, thankfully no motion controls. Which is probably why it's still at the top of my list. So much freedom to run around without the limitations of move. I tried playing NMS with move last night, horrible. Tracking is fine, the lack of an analog stick for turning and movement is not. Using the controller as a joystick for strafing feels awkward and the stop start rotation of the x o buttons doesn't allow and fine turning so you're always slightly strafing down the halls with your head turned a bit.

Blood & truth does away with movement and you glide from point to point, basically slow teleportation. And sure, tracking works but all the issues of motion control are there. Collision detection works of course, which means when you move your gun too close along a wall the 1:1 tracking goes away and your virtual hand does something else than your real hand. And all so finicky, I've shot my foot so many times trying to holster my weapon (same button) or the ceiling trying to stow the smg on my back. There are a lot of interactions possible but nothing feels quite right cause there is nothing to feel. I was playing with all the things in the car and anything that's attached is a matter of figuring out where and how you have to hold you wrist to get it to do what you want. It's not natural at all because you're holding a controller and pressing a button to grab.

I would love to try PCVR but I'm not going to invest in an expensive set up just to be disappointed by the same fundamental problems in motion control. The most I use PSVR for nowadays is Beat Saber and sometimes time trials in GT Sport. I still have Borderlands 2 waiting for me, I should really start that some time. I think you can play that without motion controls and should be fine sitting or standing like RE7. Btw I did play Skyrim VR for 130 hours with move. Dual casting, sword plus shield and rapid fire arrows was too good not to use move. Movement and rotation were annoying, especially since it switched from 'joystick' strafing with move, to go where you look when running.

Anyway next gen should have analog sticks on motion controllers. Motion control is great for a lot of things, just awkward when manipulating virtual objects.



KManX89 said:
Dulfite said:
People have been waiting for HL3 for eons and now it's a VR game, appealing to a small demographic? This is funny lol

This. Cutting out people who don't have a gaming PC and/or play exclusively on console, and people want to praise them after all their transgressions? 

I have both gaming PC and consoles, but I can't see myself ever buying VR. I want to actually engage with the people around me in real life and not just stare at a wall in a dark corner of the basement eating my cheese puffs which, according to the game I'm playing, are caviar.



Dulfite said:
KManX89 said:

This. Cutting out people who don't have a gaming PC and/or play exclusively on console, and people want to praise them after all their transgressions? 

I have both gaming PC and consoles, but I can't see myself ever buying VR. I want to actually engage with the people around me in real life and not just stare at a wall in a dark corner of the basement eating my cheese puffs which, according to the game I'm playing, are caviar.

Wait like 4 years and you will be able to include the people around you in VR.  And they won't be getting cut out of the experience.