Forums - Movies Discussion - Will Terminator: Dark Fate Be The Lowest Grossing Sequel?

Where Will T:DF End Up?

The Lowest of the Low 15 78.95%
 
Above Salvation 2 10.53%
 
Above Genisys 1 5.26%
 
Above T3 1 5.26%
 
Total:19
Soundwave said:
thismeintiel said:

Oh, so in other words, you have no examples?  And, yes, Terminator did.  I gave several examples within the film and the director's own words show it.  And people still came out to watch Rocky Balboa.  And all the old action stars in the Expendables franchise.  And Bruce Willis in Die Hard 4 and 5. 

And you keep that dream alive of most people liking woke politics over good storytelling and characters.  I'll continue to laugh as these films fail.

Not sure what Trump has to do with this.  Whether you know it or not, not everything has to involve Trump.

Hate to break it to you but here's a reality check ... Hollywood is WOKE. Always has been, not sure what fantasy world you were living in where James Cameron (maker of the biggest Hollywood hits of the 90s/2000s) is a conservative, lol. Or DiCaprio is the biggest movie star in the world and really the only person left who can carry a movie (like Once Upon A Time in Hollywood) on his shoulders, is very woke. 

A lot of the examples you're using are old as fuck to boot, most of these 80s/90s franchise retreads of the last 5-6 years have bombed. Because it's a NEW generation of kids. You're old dude, you're not the primary demographic for movies, just like once upon a time you displaced people of the 50s/60s.

These kids don't give a shit about Schwarzenneger, Stallone, I mean even Twilight now is "retro", that was 10 years ago, Kristen Stewart is 30 and old, she's not the "It" girl of Hollywood, not even close. "Retro" to kids is Fast & Furious, that's a retro franchise. Terminator and Rambo are fucking ancient. 

Terminator was 35 years ago.  So for kids watching it then, 35 years before that would be 1949.  Imagine Terminator era kids identifying with 1949 cinema.

Samson and Delilah? Pinky? Come to the Stable? Sands of Iwo Jima? I Was a Male War Bride? Twelve O'Clock High? She Wore a Yellow Ribbon? Neptune's Daughter? In the Good Old Summertime? On the Town?  1949 Top 10 Grossing films.  Loved by 1984 youngsters. /s



Massimus - "Trump already has democrat support."

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SpokenTruth said:
Soundwave said:

Hate to break it to you but here's a reality check ... Hollywood is WOKE. Always has been, not sure what fantasy world you were living in where James Cameron (maker of the biggest Hollywood hits of the 90s/2000s) is a conservative, lol. Or DiCaprio is the biggest movie star in the world and really the only person left who can carry a movie (like Once Upon A Time in Hollywood) on his shoulders, is very woke. 

A lot of the examples you're using are old as fuck to boot, most of these 80s/90s franchise retreads of the last 5-6 years have bombed. Because it's a NEW generation of kids. You're old dude, you're not the primary demographic for movies, just like once upon a time you displaced people of the 50s/60s.

These kids don't give a shit about Schwarzenneger, Stallone, I mean even Twilight now is "retro", that was 10 years ago, Kristen Stewart is 30 and old, she's not the "It" girl of Hollywood, not even close. "Retro" to kids is Fast & Furious, that's a retro franchise. Terminator and Rambo are fucking ancient. 

Terminator was 35 years ago.  So for kids watching it then, 35 years before that would be 1949.  Imagine Terminator era kids identifying with 1949 cinema.

Samson and Delilah? Pinky? Come to the Stable? Sands of Iwo Jima? I Was a Male War Bride? Twelve O'Clock High? She Wore a Yellow Ribbon? Neptune's Daughter? In the Good Old Summertime? On the Town?  1949 Top 10 Grossing films.  Loved by 1984 youngsters. /s

Exactly, I mean I remember talking to the neighbours kid about Charlie's Angels opening ... not only did they have no clue what the hell that was, they didn't even know who Drew Barrymore was, when I tried explaining the "recent" 2000s reboot, lol. I realized even the early 2000s are ancient to them. 

The only movies from the 30s/40s/50s that I related to as a kid of the 80s/90s was Wizard of Oz and Disney animated films, but anything else .... fuuuuuuuuuuck no. 



Soundwave said:
SpokenTruth said:

Terminator was 35 years ago.  So for kids watching it then, 35 years before that would be 1949.  Imagine Terminator era kids identifying with 1949 cinema.

Samson and Delilah? Pinky? Come to the Stable? Sands of Iwo Jima? I Was a Male War Bride? Twelve O'Clock High? She Wore a Yellow Ribbon? Neptune's Daughter? In the Good Old Summertime? On the Town?  1949 Top 10 Grossing films.  Loved by 1984 youngsters. /s

Exactly, I mean I remember talking to the neighbours kid about Charlie's Angels opening ... not only did they have no clue what the hell that was, they didn't even know who Drew Barrymore was, when I tried explaining the "recent" 2000s reboot, lol. I realized even the early 2000s are ancient to them. 

The only movies from the 30s/40s/50s that I related to as a kid of the 80s/90s was Wizard of Oz and Disney animated films, but anything else .... fuuuuuuuuuuck no. 

Indeed. 

As for the new Charlie's Angel movie, my wife and looked at each other funny when news was talking about how bad it opened given that neither of us even knew said movie was even coming out. 



Massimus - "Trump already has democrat support."

SpokenTruth said:
Soundwave said:

Exactly, I mean I remember talking to the neighbours kid about Charlie's Angels opening ... not only did they have no clue what the hell that was, they didn't even know who Drew Barrymore was, when I tried explaining the "recent" 2000s reboot, lol. I realized even the early 2000s are ancient to them. 

The only movies from the 30s/40s/50s that I related to as a kid of the 80s/90s was Wizard of Oz and Disney animated films, but anything else .... fuuuuuuuuuuck no. 

Indeed. 

As for the new Charlie's Angel movie, my wife and looked at each other funny when news was talking about how bad it opened given that neither of us even knew said movie was even coming out. 

There's basically only a handful of things that are reliable money makers at the movies now 

1.) Marvel or DC comic book movies

2.) Star Wars

3.) Low budget horror movies 

4.) Kids CGI animated films

5.) Disney reboots (and even this not always)

6.) Jurassic Park

The comedy, drama, traditional action film, romance genres are basically becoming extinct theatrically. 80s/90s reboots ... forget it, leave that shit for straight to Netflix/Youtube/Disney+/Amazon Prime (see: Cobra Kai, did ok for a web series, would have flopped as a feature film). 



SpokenTruth said:
thismeintiel said:

As for your list, very wrong.  Has nothing to do with people not liking things being done over again, or making sequels to old films.  There have been many remakes/sequels that have actually down well.  True Grit. Charlie and the Chocolate Factory.  Freaky Friday.  War of the Worlds.  The Ocean's Eleven series.  The Bond series. The problem comes when they are done poorly, and it makes it even worse when they are done poorly for the sake of woke politics.  Oh, I don't know, like what Ghostbusters did.  And MIB4 put in some of that, as well.

True Grit - $252m WW.  That's doing well?

Charlie and the Chocolate Factory - 2005.  Not exactly part of the new era of remakes/sequels.

Freaky Friday - 2003 - $160m WW.  Old and did poorly.

War of the Worlds - 2005.  Also not really recent and it was during Tom Cruise height of popularity plus you got Spielberg directing.

Ocean's series - 2001 to 2007.  Again, not recent.  And each one did less than the previous entry...$450m to $362m to $311m.  Even Ocean's 8 (bland movie) did $300m but you'll call that bad because of woke or something.

Bond had a resurgence in popularity after it was faltering during the 90's.  Was it faltering in the 90's because of woke culture?  No, they just weren't that good. 

Ghostbusters (2016) - Bad movie. 

Men in Black: International - Bland movie.  Did $253m WW though.  So is that good or bad?  True Grit?  Also, each MIB movie did worse domestically that its predecessor.  But...woke or something.

So Dark Phoenix?  Godzilla: King of Monsters? Lego Movie 2?  The Mummy? Pacific Rim: Uprising? The Thing (2011)? Wolfman (2010)? Point Break (2015)? The Day the Earth Stood Still (2008)? Ben Hur (2016)?

Too woke for their own good or what?  Or maybe they just weren't very good movies.

Anything past 2000 is part of these newer remakes.  That's when this trend of remakes started and has been ramping up ever since.

You also have to take into account the films budget.  Of course, I think you know that, but choose to selectively ignore that to desperately try to make a point.  A low budget western is going to have less appeal than a big budget action flick.  So, yea, True Grit was a big hit.  Oh, and the 80s/90s were the height of Tom Cruise.  2005 was more like the height of everyone thinking he was a weirdo.

Ocean's 8 was pushed hard by the media, using the woke angle.  In the end, it was the lowest performing in the series.  And performed much worse on home video than Thirteen.  It wasn't an out and out flop, but it did underperform.

It's silly to bring up Bond in your defense.  It's a franchise that has always had lows and highs, not just in the 90s.  The real point is it's a popular old series that was remade.  So, bad excuse on your part.

Ah, Ghostbusters.  The prime example.  Well, until Charlie's Angels and Dark Fate.  A movie that was advertised entirely on wokeness.  And a big flop, even with critics lying and saying it was decent to good.

Way to prove my point about you cherry picking.  MIB3 made $10M less than MIB2 domestically?  And that's your point?  It also happened to make $210M more than MIB2 WW, so I'm sure the studio was able to get over it.  Like I said, it was by far the largest in the series.  Again, proving you wrong about no one caring about older franchises.  MIB:I should have starred the people who made the franchise.  And shouldn't have had dumb jokes about how it should be called Women In Black.  There were women in the agency to begin with, and none of them gave a shit. 

Same goes for Dark Pheonix, with the dumbass clip with Mystique lecturing Prof X on what it meant to sacrifice and how it should be called X-Women because the women are always saving the men.  Saying this to a man who was paralyzed because of his sacrifice.  It was made a big deal that Ruth Bader Ginsburg was in Lego Movie 2.  Surprise, not everyone is happy with that.  Hate to break it to you, but the first Pacific Rim and Thing flopped, too.  Hollywood should stop making remakes/sequels to cult classics that either flopped or only had middling success at the box office, which covers a lot of the titles you mentioned, and giving them a huge budget.  Oh, and The Day the Earth Stood Still didn't flop.  $237.4M WW against an $80M budget.

The real point is, a movie can do bad if it is bad.  Though, sometimes they can get by on dumb action, like the Transformer films.  The point isn't that only woke movies flop or underperform, but a woke movie that pushes a message instead of trying to tell a good story, will always flop or greatly underperform.  Even more so when it is pushing woke politics into an already established franchise that didn't have them before.  Like I said, you guys will continue to make excuses, and we will just continue to laugh as the flops keep coming.



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You're fucking old dude, lol, early 2000s isn't "recent" ... that's "old" by modern movie going trends. Pre-2009 IS OLD. The Hollywood business model has changed a lot even from then. You keep bringing up examples from like 12-15 years ago. That's a long time ago.

The fact of the matter is most 80s/90s reboots that aren't Disney live action or Jurassic Park have flopped the last 7-8 years.

Captain Marvel, Creed, Get Out, hell even the new Avengers film, and many other films have very clear "woke" messaging and they've all done big box office. I mean shit, Avatar is clear woke messaging. 

Films like Terminator and Charlie's Angels and RAMBO fail because they're tired concepts in this day and age. Who but late 30s-50 year olds would really even get excited about seeing these characters?

The movie business of 2019/2020 is not the same as 2008 either, you seem to have difficulty grasping this. There's only like 5 film properties consistently making large amounts of money anymore (Marvel/DC, Star Wars, Fast & Furious, Jurassic Park, general horror films). 

Last edited by Soundwave - on 26 November 2019

Soundwave said:
thismeintiel said:

Oh, so in other words, you have no examples?  And, yes, Terminator did.  I gave several examples within the film and the director's own words show it.  And people still came out to watch Rocky Balboa.  And all the old action stars in the Expendables franchise.  And Bruce Willis in Die Hard 4 and 5. 

And you keep that dream alive of most people liking woke politics over good storytelling and characters.  I'll continue to laugh as these films fail.

Not sure what Trump has to do with this.  Whether you know it or not, not everything has to involve Trump.

Hate to break it to you but here's a reality check ... Hollywood is WOKE. Always has been, not sure what fantasy world you were living in where James Cameron (maker of the biggest Hollywood hits of the 90s/2000s) is a conservative, lol. Or DiCaprio is the biggest movie star in the world and really the only person left who can carry a movie (like Once Upon A Time in Hollywood) on his shoulders, is very woke. 

A lot of the examples you're using are old as fuck to boot, most of these 80s/90s franchise retreads of the last 5-6 years have bombed. Because it's a NEW generation of kids. You're old dude, you're not the primary demographic for movies, just like once upon a time you displaced people of the 50s/60s.

These kids don't give a shit about Schwarzenneger, Stallone, I mean even Twilight now is "retro", that was 10 years ago, Kristen Stewart is 30 and old, she's not the "It" girl of Hollywood, not even close. "Retro" to kids is Fast & Furious, that's a retro franchise. Terminator and Rambo are fucking ancient. Bruce Willis can't even get a major movie anymore, he does straight to DVD/PPV crap these days aside from M. Night bailing him out with the Glass sequel. 

Well, duh.  Of course everyone knows Hollywood is woke.  And no, it wasn't always.  In the beginning it was more balanced, but became more left-leaning as those types started gatekeeping the business.  Still, even the left-leaning people could make enjoyable films everyone could enjoy.  Now, they are so obvious with their woke messages, either because they believe them or just think younger adults do, it turns people on the right off.  Hell, even turn some of the left off, as well, since they are ruining beloved franchises.  Pretty bad when you have someone like Angry Joe, who cried when Hillary lost, calling Terminator out on it trying to get woke points, but killing the franchise in the process.

Around 15 years is not old as fuck.  And sorry to break it to you, and maybe Hollywood might learn, those woke kids 15-24 aren't going to the movies like they think they are.  Not like the 25-45 year olds are.  And they don't want woke politics fucking up their favorite franchises.  Even a lot who are left-leaning.

It doesn't really matter.  In the end, these are all just poor excuses.  I mean you talk about the kids not liking older actors, but we both know that's utter BS.  The Marvel films are huge successes.  And the last Avengers, the average age of the actors for the superheroes has to be 45+.  One of the bigger action stars now is The Rock, and he's pushing 50.  We'll have Bruce Willis in a new Die Hard, and he'll be 64.  It also doesn't change the fact that the majority watching those films were 25+.

starcraft said:
I saw it and really enjoyed it.

Hadn't heard about any of the not-really-a-controversy going in. Definitely the best Terminator since T2.

But there-in lies the problem. There have been too many bad ones. And Terminator now exists in a world with multiple, phenomenal action films coming out every year. Good as this was, line it up against an Endgame, or a Star Wars, or Mission Impossible 5 - it just can't compete anyone. The original two films launched in to a completely different market.

Even bringing back Arnold for Genysis barely resulted in a rise on Salvation, especially after inflation. With that trick gone, this movie never had much hope.

Shame, if it had been film 3 instead of six, could have been a whole different direction for the franchise.

Here's the problem in your logic.  Genisys did much better than Dark Fate just 3 years ago.  It actually matched T3.  And performed better than Salvation.  So, if they were all bad, why did Genisys go back up?  If Dark Fate is actually as good as you claim it is, why didn't it continue the climb?  Or at least match it?

The fact is, this film was more poorly received than Genisys, regardless of what critics would have you believe.  China liked Genisys.  So much, in fact, that it barely dropped in its 2nd weekend there.  It went on to make $105M+ there.  DF could only muster half of that.  And DF actually opened $2M+ higher in China.  They just didn't like what they saw.

Considering Genisys actually made them a little bit of money, they would have had a better shot at success carrying on with that story line.  Instead they scrapped it for this woke garbage fire, and it flopped hard.  Costing them $125M-$150M.



Yeah I hate to break it to you but George Lucas, Steven Spielberg, James Cameron, ARE LIBERAL. They ARE WOKE. So unless you're talking about 1940s Hollywood, lol, yes Hollywood has always been left leaning and woke. Since pretty much the 60s/70s onwards.

Genisys was DOG SHIT, hahaha, lol, it doesn't surprise me if that was some kid's first introduction to the Terminator franchise that they'd never want to watch another again either. I wouldn't.

Arnold is too damn old looking to carry an action movie anymore, yes he looks great for a 70 year old, but he still looks old. He's not believable as an imposing threat (good or bad) any longer.

15 years is old as fuck. A person who was 21 years old, 15 years ago today is 36 and probably has kids and a spouse. They can't go to a fucking movie theater every weekend like they're 22, and when they do it's usually so the dumb kids get to watch the new CGI kids movie, not Terminator. That's called life, it happens to everyone. 

That's the other thing, I mean pretty much all of my friends go see Terminator movies when we were younger, but now that many of them are married and with young kids ... that ain't happening. I'm a little younger and just newly married so I have some time, but these days the only movies that they get out to see with me is like the big ticket Avengers movies and we'll try to see the new Star Wars I guess, but even that is gonna be tough for some people. 

My friends we'd always see these new franchise instalments every week, opening Friday and then go off to Denny's until 2-3 AM. Saturday was for going out/clubbing. That shit doesn't happen at all anymore, lol. 

Movie business relies on people in the 16-29 year old demo, once you get older than that a thing called "reality" sets in. 

Last edited by Soundwave - on 26 November 2019

Soundwave said:

You're fucking old dude, lol, early 2000s isn't "recent" ... that's "old" by modern movie going trends. Pre-2009 IS OLD. The Hollywood business model has changed a lot even from then. You keep bringing up examples from like 12-15 years ago. That's a long time ago.

The fact of the matter is most 80s/90s reboots that aren't Disney live action or Jurassic Park have flopped the last 7-8 years.

Captain Marvel, Creed, Get Out, hell even the new Avengers film, and many other films have very clear "woke" messaging and they've all done big box office. I mean shit, Avatar is clear woke messaging. 

Films like Terminator and Charlie's Angels and RAMBO fail because they're tired concepts in this day and age. Who but late 30s-50 year olds would really even get excited about seeing these characters?

The movie business of 2019/2020 is not the same as 2008 either, you seem to have difficulty grasping this. There's only like 5 film properties consistently making large amounts of money anymore (Marvel/DC, Star Wars, Fast & Furious, Jurassic Park, general horror films). 

Boy, you really are desperate to have a point, aren't you?  Doesn't fit your narrative, too old/cherry pick.  If the film's a success, it's clearly woke because it has a black and/or woman in it.  Just desperate.

I'll just leave you to your lack of an argument, while I laugh as more of these woke films flop.  Good day.



thismeintiel said:
Soundwave said:

You're fucking old dude, lol, early 2000s isn't "recent" ... that's "old" by modern movie going trends. Pre-2009 IS OLD. The Hollywood business model has changed a lot even from then. You keep bringing up examples from like 12-15 years ago. That's a long time ago.

The fact of the matter is most 80s/90s reboots that aren't Disney live action or Jurassic Park have flopped the last 7-8 years.

Captain Marvel, Creed, Get Out, hell even the new Avengers film, and many other films have very clear "woke" messaging and they've all done big box office. I mean shit, Avatar is clear woke messaging. 

Films like Terminator and Charlie's Angels and RAMBO fail because they're tired concepts in this day and age. Who but late 30s-50 year olds would really even get excited about seeing these characters?

The movie business of 2019/2020 is not the same as 2008 either, you seem to have difficulty grasping this. There's only like 5 film properties consistently making large amounts of money anymore (Marvel/DC, Star Wars, Fast & Furious, Jurassic Park, general horror films). 

Boy, you really are desperate to have a point, aren't you?  Doesn't fit your narrative, too old/cherry pick.  If the film's a success, it's clearly woke because it has a black and/or woman in it.  Just desperate.

I'll just leave you to your lack of an argument, while I laugh as more of these woke films flop.  Good day.

Films will continue to flop because no one wants to see old ass 70s/80s/90s franchises especially those starring 70 year olds. 

Did you when you were 14 years old pine for franchises from the 1960s starring Marlon Brando or Warren Beatty? I'm guessing probably not. 

You just don't realize that this is happening again because you think the world revolves around your personal tastes. 

The movie business has also clearly changed to the point where nothing makes money aside from like 6 different franchises/genre types. There's rarely any action, comedy, romance, drama hits any more period. The fact is most of these franchise reboots from the 70s/80s/90s of the last 7-8 years especially have flopped. It's not just like a case of one or two. 

Alien Covenant had "woke" politics too? Rambo too? Men In Black also? Indepdence Day 2 as well? Robocop as well? The Predator too? Total Recall? Blade Runner? Like all of these recent remakes are "woke"? Gimme a fucking break. 

Last edited by Soundwave - on 26 November 2019