Forums - Movies Discussion - Will Terminator: Dark Fate Be The Lowest Grossing Sequel?

Where Will T:DF End Up?

The Lowest of the Low 15 78.95%
 
Above Salvation 2 10.53%
 
Above Genisys 1 5.26%
 
Above T3 1 5.26%
 
Total:19
Soundwave said:
thismeintiel said:

Boy, you really are desperate to have a point, aren't you?  Doesn't fit your narrative, too old/cherry pick.  If the film's a success, it's clearly woke because it has a black and/or woman in it.  Just desperate.

I'll just leave you to your lack of an argument, while I laugh as more of these woke films flop.  Good day.

Films will continue to flop because no one wants to see old ass 70s/80s/90s franchises especially those starring 70 year olds. 

Did you when you were 14 years old pine for franchises from the 1960s starring Marlon Brando or Warren Beatty? I'm guessing probably not. 

You just don't realize that this is happening again because you think the world revolves around your personal tastes. 

The movie business has also clearly changed to the point where nothing makes money aside from like 6 different franchises/genre types. There's rarely any action, comedy, romance, drama hits any more period. The fact is most of these franchise reboots from the 70s/80s/90s of the last 7-8 years especially have flopped. It's not just like a case of one or two. 

Alien Covenant had "woke" politics too? Rambo too? Men In Black also? Indepdence Day 2 as well? Robocop as well? The Predator too? Total Recall? Blade Runner? Like all of these recent remakes are "woke"? Gimme a fucking break. 

Cherry picking and strawman arguments are all you guys have left, huh?  You obviously didn't read, or maybe couldn't comprehend what I said, even though I laid it out quite simply for you.  I won't try to explain it, again, as I'm kinda getting bored.  I will look forward to the next woke masterpiece and the excuses as to why its wokeness is not why it flopped.

By the way, 61% of the audience was 25 years or older at Endgame opening weekend.  So, no, the younger woke crowd are not Hollywood's bread and butter.  They may try to appease them by virtue signalling, but it is proven over and over that those aren't the ones filling up the seats, no matter how hard they wish to believe it is.  And once those kids get closer to 30, quite a few of them get red pilled when they are struck by reality.



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thismeintiel said:
Soundwave said:

Films will continue to flop because no one wants to see old ass 70s/80s/90s franchises especially those starring 70 year olds. 

Did you when you were 14 years old pine for franchises from the 1960s starring Marlon Brando or Warren Beatty? I'm guessing probably not. 

You just don't realize that this is happening again because you think the world revolves around your personal tastes. 

The movie business has also clearly changed to the point where nothing makes money aside from like 6 different franchises/genre types. There's rarely any action, comedy, romance, drama hits any more period. The fact is most of these franchise reboots from the 70s/80s/90s of the last 7-8 years especially have flopped. It's not just like a case of one or two. 

Alien Covenant had "woke" politics too? Rambo too? Men In Black also? Indepdence Day 2 as well? Robocop as well? The Predator too? Total Recall? Blade Runner? Like all of these recent remakes are "woke"? Gimme a fucking break. 

Cherry picking and strawman arguments are all you guys have left, huh?  You obviously didn't read, or maybe couldn't comprehend what I said, even though I laid it out quite simply for you.  I won't try to explain it, again, as I'm kinda getting bored.  I will look forward to the next woke masterpiece and the excuses as to why its wokeness is not why it flopped.

By the way, 61% of the audience was 25 years or older at Endgame opening weekend.  So, no, the younger woke crowd are not Hollywood's bread and butter.  They may try to appease them by virtue signalling, but it is proven over and over that those aren't the ones filling up the seats, no matter how hard they wish to believe it is.  And once those kids get closer to 30, quite a few of them get red pilled when they are struck by reality.

64% of the movie going public in the US is 39 or younger. Latinos represent the highest movie going population group followed by Asians. These demographics likely skew even younger in markets like China:

https://www.mekkographics.com/american-moviegoers-by-age-and-ethnicity/

You're not a "kid" when you're 30 by the way. You need to grow the fuck up by that age. 

By your mid/late 30s most people have kids, you can't go to the movies in the same way anymore, everything revolves around the baby's schedule. That's life. Avengers is a film I could get a lot of my friends to see, but every week? Ant-Man even? No way. 



starcraft said:
I saw it and really enjoyed it.

Hadn't heard about any of the not-really-a-controversy going in. Definitely the best Terminator since T2.

But there-in lies the problem. There have been too many bad ones. And Terminator now exists in a world with multiple, phenomenal action films coming out every year. Good as this was, line it up against an Endgame, or a Star Wars, or Mission Impossible 5 - it just can't compete anyone. The original two films launched in to a completely different market.

Even bringing back Arnold for Genysis barely resulted in a rise on Salvation, especially after inflation. With that trick gone, this movie never had much hope.

Shame, if it had been film 3 instead of six, could have been a whole different direction for the franchise.

Here's the problem in your logic.  Genisys did much better than Dark Fate just 3 years ago.  It actually matched T3.  And performed better than Salvation.  So, if they were all bad, why did Genisys go back up?  If Dark Fate is actually as good as you claim it is, why didn't it continue the climb?  Or at least match it?

The fact is, this film was more poorly received than Genisys, regardless of what critics would have you believe.  China liked Genisys.  So much, in fact, that it barely dropped in its 2nd weekend there.  It went on to make $105M+ there.  DF could only muster half of that.  And DF actually opened $2M+ higher in China.  They just didn't like what they saw.

Considering Genisys actually made them a little bit of money, they would have had a better shot at success carrying on with that story line.  Instead they scrapped it for this woke garbage fire, and it flopped hard.  Costing them $125M-$150M.

Its like you...deliberately only read half of posts lol.

Ad Astra and Ford V Ferrari are both better than Frozen 2...which do you think is going to make more money? What a straw man argument.



starcraft - Playing Games = FUN, Talking about Games = SERIOUS

Well I'll just say that the trailer looked so obnoxious that I decided I would watch only it didn't cost me more than my streaming subscription.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Soundwave said:
I went to see Terminator Dark Fate the entire theater was old ass 40-50 year olds. Because that's the average age of the Terminator audience these days.

Theres not a chance in hell the movie would do significantly higher box office if the lead character had a penis instead of a vagina.

It's a tired premise and Arnold is not believable as a menacing threat. He's an old man.

No 16 year old wants to see that, they don't give a crap about senior citizen 80s action stars that are looking old.

Rambo did poorly too, and that's supposed to be a "conservative" movie .... no one under 40 gives a crap about Rambo. Or Charlie's Angels.

These are old ass IP that have no where to go.

I'm 34 and my friend 27 we both loved Rambo and Creed latest entries.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

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starcraft said:

Here's the problem in your logic.  Genisys did much better than Dark Fate just 3 years ago.  It actually matched T3.  And performed better than Salvation.  So, if they were all bad, why did Genisys go back up?  If Dark Fate is actually as good as you claim it is, why didn't it continue the climb?  Or at least match it?

The fact is, this film was more poorly received than Genisys, regardless of what critics would have you believe.  China liked Genisys.  So much, in fact, that it barely dropped in its 2nd weekend there.  It went on to make $105M+ there.  DF could only muster half of that.  And DF actually opened $2M+ higher in China.  They just didn't like what they saw.

Considering Genisys actually made them a little bit of money, they would have had a better shot at success carrying on with that story line.  Instead they scrapped it for this woke garbage fire, and it flopped hard.  Costing them $125M-$150M.

Its like you...deliberately only read half of posts lol.

Ad Astra and Ford V Ferrari are both better than Frozen 2...which do you think is going to make more money? What a straw man argument.

So, instead of comparing apples to apples, you compare them to oranges. I'm talking about two films in the same franchise that came out within 3 years of each other, so no change in demographics. If DF was so great, it should have easily matched Genisys. It had less competition when it released, as well.

You're comparing a sequel to a very popular kid's film to new films. Ones that aren't exactly looking to start a franchise. I'm definitely not the one throwing out the straw man.



Soundwave said:

Yeah I hate to break it to you but George Lucas, Steven Spielberg, James Cameron, ARE LIBERAL. They ARE WOKE. So unless you're talking about 1940s Hollywood, lol, yes Hollywood has always been left leaning and woke. Since pretty much the 60s/70s onwards.

Genisys was DOG SHIT, hahaha, lol, it doesn't surprise me if that was some kid's first introduction to the Terminator franchise that they'd never want to watch another again either. I wouldn't.

Arnold is too damn old looking to carry an action movie anymore, yes he looks great for a 70 year old, but he still looks old. He's not believable as an imposing threat (good or bad) any longer.

15 years is old as fuck. A person who was 21 years old, 15 years ago today is 36 and probably has kids and a spouse. They can't go to a fucking movie theater every weekend like they're 22, and when they do it's usually so the dumb kids get to watch the new CGI kids movie, not Terminator. That's called life, it happens to everyone. 

That's the other thing, I mean pretty much all of my friends go see Terminator movies when we were younger, but now that many of them are married and with young kids ... that ain't happening. I'm a little younger and just newly married so I have some time, but these days the only movies that they get out to see with me is like the big ticket Avengers movies and we'll try to see the new Star Wars I guess, but even that is gonna be tough for some people. 

My friends we'd always see these new franchise instalments every week, opening Friday and then go off to Denny's until 2-3 AM. Saturday was for going out/clubbing. That shit doesn't happen at all anymore, lol. 

Movie business relies on people in the 16-29 year old demo, once you get older than that a thing called "reality" sets in. 

It is more likely that a 45 person will have money to go to movie every weekend if he wants than a 22. And I'm married, have 2 children, 34 and the movies I wanted to see (aren't many because most don't seem interesting to me to expend money) I go watch with a friend or wife, and some of the child movies we go as family or she goes with the children on earlier in the day midweek because it is a lot cheaper.

You are just making excuses.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

thismeintiel said:
starcraft said:

Its like you...deliberately only read half of posts lol.

Ad Astra and Ford V Ferrari are both better than Frozen 2...which do you think is going to make more money? What a straw man argument.

So, instead of comparing apples to apples, you compare them to oranges. I'm talking about two films in the same franchise that came out within 3 years of each other, so no change in demographics. If DF was so great, it should have easily matched Genisys. It had less competition when it released, as well.

You're comparing a sequel to a very popular kid's film to new films. Ones that aren't exactly looking to start a franchise. I'm definitely not the one throwing out the straw man.

On the contrary. I compared one film that had a new marketing gimmick to one that didnt. Arnold was rolled out for Genysis. He was old news by the time of Dark Fate.

You implied that a high quality film like Dark Fate will necessarily do well. I pointed to films of higher quality than Frozen 2 (which this week dominated the box office) that will nonetheless make nothing like Frozen 2's box office, to demonstrate that on its own the quality of a film does not determine its box office.

If you were to draw that link it would create interesting comparisons though. Picking a completely random film like say, Star Wars: The Last Jedi - we can see that using your metric, that film is the 9th greatest film ever to release in the USA based on its box office receipts.



starcraft - Playing Games = FUN, Talking about Games = SERIOUS

Soundwave said:

You're fucking old dude, lol, early 2000s isn't "recent" ... that's "old" by modern movie going trends. Pre-2009 IS OLD. The Hollywood business model has changed a lot even from then. You keep bringing up examples from like 12-15 years ago. That's a long time ago.

The fact of the matter is most 80s/90s reboots that aren't Disney live action or Jurassic Park have flopped the last 7-8 years.

Captain Marvel, Creed, Get Out, hell even the new Avengers film, and many other films have very clear "woke" messaging and they've all done big box office. I mean shit, Avatar is clear woke messaging. 

Films like Terminator and Charlie's Angels and RAMBO fail because they're tired concepts in this day and age. Who but late 30s-50 year olds would really even get excited about seeing these characters?

The movie business of 2019/2020 is not the same as 2008 either, you seem to have difficulty grasping this. There's only like 5 film properties consistently making large amounts of money anymore (Marvel/DC, Star Wars, Fast & Furious, Jurassic Park, general horror films). 

Theres some truth to this.
Also I want to add:

Terminator 1 was okay, and the 2nd film was the great one.
After that its just been downhill.  (no-one at this point, has faith that suddenly a new terminator movie will come out and be great)

Terminator: Dark Fate shouldnt even have been made imo.
Then again Im tried of all these lazy action films & super hero movies.

I think the movie industry overall has gone stale, compaired to what it was back in the early 2000's.
Its like its run out of idea's, and is now just spitting out "risk averse" movies, by makeing everything a super hero flick.



JRPGfan said:
Soundwave said:

You're fucking old dude, lol, early 2000s isn't "recent" ... that's "old" by modern movie going trends. Pre-2009 IS OLD. The Hollywood business model has changed a lot even from then. You keep bringing up examples from like 12-15 years ago. That's a long time ago.

The fact of the matter is most 80s/90s reboots that aren't Disney live action or Jurassic Park have flopped the last 7-8 years.

Captain Marvel, Creed, Get Out, hell even the new Avengers film, and many other films have very clear "woke" messaging and they've all done big box office. I mean shit, Avatar is clear woke messaging. 

Films like Terminator and Charlie's Angels and RAMBO fail because they're tired concepts in this day and age. Who but late 30s-50 year olds would really even get excited about seeing these characters?

The movie business of 2019/2020 is not the same as 2008 either, you seem to have difficulty grasping this. There's only like 5 film properties consistently making large amounts of money anymore (Marvel/DC, Star Wars, Fast & Furious, Jurassic Park, general horror films). 

Theres some truth to this.
Also I want to add:

Terminator 1 was okay, and the 2nd film was the great one.
After that its just been downhill.  (no-one at this point, has faith that suddenly a new terminator movie will come out and be great)

Terminator: Dark Fate shouldnt even have been made imo.
Then again Im tried of all these lazy action films & super hero movies.

I think the movie industry overall has gone stale, compaired to what it was back in the early 2000's.
Its like its run out of idea's, and is now just spitting out "risk averse" movies, by makeing everything a super hero flick.

Comparing the top 15 box office movies of 2000 vs 2019 is sobering

2000: Grinch Stole Christmas, Cast Away, Mission: Impossible 2, Gladiator, What Women Want, The Perfect Storm, Meet The Parents, X-Men, Scary Movie, What Lies Beneath, Dinosaur, Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, Erin Brokovich, Charlie's Angels, Traffic

Versus

2019: Avengers Endgame, The Lion King, Toy Story 4, Captain Marvel, Spider-Man FFH, Aladdin, Joker, It Chapter Two, Us, Fast & Furious: Hobbs & Shaw, John Wick 3, Frozen 2, Train Your Dragon 3, Secret Life of Pets 2, Star Wars IX* (bound to be in the top 15 so I'll just add it)

There's only one really original IP in 2019's top 15 and that's the horror hit "Us". Everything else is franchise sequel/spin-off. Meanwhile on the 2000 list 11/15 top grossing domestic films are original ideas. 11/15 versus 1/15. 

It's fucking sad. 

Look I like spectacle fantasy/sci-fi, but the movie business has devolved entirely into juvenile nostalgia wish fulfilment  for 25-40 year olds who want to induldge feeling like a kid or actual kids and nothing else. Just tons of comic book shit and Disney fairy tales, CGI kids movies, and nothing original. 

No drama, not even a comedy in the top 15 for 2019. 

Last edited by Soundwave - on 28 November 2019