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Forums - Movies & TV - The James Bond Rewatch: Current Movie - SPECTRE

 

Which is the best movie of the Craig era (so far)?

Casino Royal 13 76.47%
 
Quantum of Solace 0 0%
 
Skyfall 4 23.53%
 
Spectre 0 0%
 
Total:17

Full disclosure right out of the gate: I’ve always liked Tomorrow Never Dies. It’s not a great film by any stretch of the imagination but I always found it to be enjoyable as popcorn entertainment. On this rewatch, that opinion has not changed much although the issues I’ve been discussing throughout the rewatch are more glaring now. For me, the death of Bond as a secret agent is during the finale of this film. Running around the stealth ship and firing two guns is so antithetical to how the character was developed that we’ve reached a point of no return. Bond is just an action hero now and the elements of espionage thrillers that fill many of the best films of the franchise (From Russia with Love, For Your Eyes Only, The Living Daylights) are a thing of the past.

Maybe at the time I first saw this I was more okay with that change. I was 13 so obviously action was cool and fun to mimic and pretend to be a part of. Perhaps that youthful investment has carried over where I can still enjoy TND as a whole while still being able to recognize the issues that prevent it from being elevated in the canon. Maybe this whole line of thought is pretentious and not what anyone still reading is looking for. In any case, I wanted to at least give context for how I view the film. I get that a lot people don’t like it and I recognize the issues. But for me, I’d still rather watch this than the two that come after.

Let’s discuss the actual film now! Brosnan’s second outing in the role of 007 sees him take on a media mogul who is seeking to ignite a war between the U.K. and China in order to secure cable broadcast rights in the latter. Makes perfect sense right? I think the film’s major problem is you could have made this scheme work, but rather than have the main villain be the media mogul, it should be the general seeking to stage a coup in China. When you have the assassination of the leaders of a world-power and a potential nuclear war be an afterthought in your plot, you might be throwing believability out the window. Having the focus be on Carver only highlights the silliness of the whole thing. But if you just change the focus to a less flashy plot, having an ally like Carver in a secondary role makes more sense than him be the driving force.

While the plot does seem silly, given the issues we have seen with corporate controlled media and the way it influences politics and policy in today’s society, TND is particularly prescient. Whole segments of the population have a completely different worldview than their neighbors and a lot of that has to do with the media they consume and what the intent behind that media is. I don’t want to get into a political rant here, but Carver’s influence and methods from thirty years ago seem a simplified version of the complexities of media today. The power of media is definitely underscored, or at least until recently, so kudos to this film for raising an issue we tackle almost daily now.

As to the cast, I like Jonathan Pryce as the villain. He brings a manic glee to the proceedings while still being disarmingly charming. Thinking back on his character, he clearly suffers from an inferiority complex. Prone to maniacal rants when he’s winning and vicious anger when he’s at the disadvantage, I felt viewing him through this lens made me understand his motivations more. He talks about reaching more people in the world than God. Is he delusional? Probably. But he wants to be seen and heard. That’s true power in his eyes. His explosion of anger for Bond cutting off a broadcast and him being the butt of TV jokes is a deep wound for him. I’m not trying to dress up the character to be more than he is, but I did find making this observation that I related to him more. Or maybe Pryce is just fun to watch.

Michelle Yeoh was a great addition to the cast. My favorite Bond Girl of the modern era, if you were ever going to do a spin-off you would pick her and not Jinx from Die Another Day. Quick to action but sadly still saddled with having to be saved TWICE in the finale, I wish the screenwriter had let her be free to keep her agency throughout the entire film. Bond didn’t need to save Natalya in the finale to GoldenEye, so what gives here? Yeoh can be both playful and a force to be reckoned with.

Judi Dench and Samantha Bond continue to shine in their roles and we also add Colin Salmon as Robinson to take over as M’s commanding chief of staff. Dench particularly shines when standing up to a Navy Admiral who is chomping at the bit to unleash the dogs of war. Setting her in the first film as an outsider with a broader view pays off here as she pushes against the brass to investigate the situation. Her confidence in Bond grows as well and she’s not even above pushing him to use his methods of persuasion on Carver’s wife, played by the lovely Teri Hatcher.

I’ve gone back and forth but I’m going to be generous and given this a 6/10. It could easily be a 5, but the elements I liked outweigh the ones I didn’t. The story is flawed but salvageable. The action is quite good. Particular note given to the standard car chase with use of gadgets but given a twist where Bond is operating the car from the backseat. There’s also some good hand to hand fights earlier in the film and it’s shame Stamper and Bond’s final duel isn’t better. The cast is top notch and whether you hated or loved Carter he was certainly memorable. The theme is a bit bland. I actually preferred the ending song to the title theme. Brosnan got saddled with some bad scripts in his era but he continues to shine as 007.

Current Rankings:
1) On Her Majesty’s Secret Service
2) From Russia with Love
3) Goldfinger
4) For Your Eyes Only
5) The Living Daylights
6) The Spy Who Loved Me
7) GoldenEye
8) Thunderball
9) Dr. No
10) Licence to Kill
11) Octopussy
12) Live and Let Die
13) Tomorrow Never Dies
14) You Only Live Twice
15) The Man with the Golden Gun
16) A View to a Kill
17) Moonraker
18) Diamonds are Forever



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Since @Doc755 has been bugging me, here's my overall ranking so far:

1) From Russia With Love
2) On Her Majesty's Secret Service
3) Goldfinger
4) For Your Eyes Only
5) The Spy Who Loved Me
6) GoldenEye
7) Licence to Kill
8) Dr. No
9) The Living Daylights
10) Thunderball
11) The Man With The Golden Gun
12) Octopussy
13) Live and Let Die
14) You Only Live Twice
15) Moonraker
16) A View to a Kill
17) Diamonds Are Forever



The World Is Not Enough is getting a 6 from me.

The first Bond I saw in the cinema IIRC. I've always enjoyed it, although it's middle of the road in the grand scheme of things. Sophie Marceau does well as the seductive, two faced Elektra and Robert Carlyle convinces as the unhinged Renard. Brosnan is as smooth and stylish as ever, whilst Robbie Coltrane and Judi Dench both put in good shifts as well. I often see the casting of Denise Richards criticised and, well, she's not great, but not awful either. The plot is serviceable, and there's some nice locations and stunts as you'd expect, but I did find myself glancing at the clock once or twice on this run through. Perhaps I've seen it too many times? It did feel a little overlong - 5-10 mins shorter would've made a difference I think. Theme song was quite forgettable too.



Tomorrow Never Dies
I've moved a few titles around during this rewatch--FYEO jumped a few spots and Licence to Kill fell a couple--but not until Tomorrow Never Dies have I been surprised by my re-assessment. I was expecting to give this a 5 or 6, tops. But I enjoyed it! The pre-title scene at the terrorist bazaar is tense and thrilling, and the action remains at a high level throughout. The inventive car chase is a highlight, alongside the bike chase where Bond and Wai Lin have to improvise on the fly. What really pushes TBD over the top is the hotel scene with Paris. This is one of the most raw and revealing sequences in the franchise.  

So, that's the good. The bad: the villain. I love Jonathan Pryce in general, but it was difficult to take him or his scheme seriously.

7/10

1) From Russia With Love
2) On Her Majesty's Secret Service
3) Goldfinger
4) For Your Eyes Only
5) The Spy Who Loved Me
6) GoldenEye
7) Licence to Kill
8) Dr. No
9) Tomorrow Never Dies
10) The Living Daylights
11) Thunderball
12) The Man With The Golden Gun
13) Octopussy
14) Live and Let Die
15) You Only Live Twice
16) Moonraker
17) A View to a Kill
18) Diamonds Are Forever



Well...I missed about half of this due to my life being a living catastrophe.

I watched GoldenEye two weeks ago and Tomorrow Never Dies last week though.

GoldenEye was great. I still love the characters in this movie...but lets move on to some cool stuff:

Bond sleeps with two women in this movie: The psychological evaluator and of course the darling Natalya Simonova
The cars are a classic Aston Martin in the beginning and some BMW thing that only shows up near the end of the movie after we're introduced to it.
And of course the plot point people all saw from a mile away: Janus is 006.

Tomorrow Never Dies was a fun romp to, but nowhere in the league of GoldenEye. The plot may as well have been about Michael Bloomberg or that other guy that started Fox News (Roger Ailes? I think?) Except instead they're bent on world domination. Some great action sequences but for me, it jumped the shark when Bond drives around his new BMW (maybe) with a cell phone. The intro was probably my favorite part of the movie where Bond prevents nuclear annihilation by stealing a fighter jet.

9/10

I actually lost count of the women Bond slept with in this one. I think it's either three or 4. The reporter chick and the bad guys wife for sure but I know there's at least one more.
I don't even remember what kind of car he drove. I think it was a BMW.
And of course, there were way more cheesy one liners in this than I can remember in any 007 film.

6/10

Will be watching the World is not Enough tonight.



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The World is Not Enough

The franchise falls back on some bad habits here. The supporting cast is solid--minus Richards who looks amateurish--and the locations are beautiful, but some of the action seems tedious and overlong, the puns excessive, and the pacing slow. 

5/10



Tomorrow Never Dies

The opening scene feels a little drawn out. Its good to see Geoffrey Palmer and Judi Dench together, and an introduction to Colin Salmon who I always liked (as basically a stand in for the unavailable Kitchner as Tanner), its good they kept him on. But the action sequence is just a bit bland. Theme song is unmemorable, its very not in the Cheryl Crow style and that probably doesn’t help it.


Sadly this along with most of the Brosnan era suffers from bad underwater CGI. You can level that at most films from about 1993 to 2004 so I’ll try and not let it get in the way. But when u see cgi torpedo looking crap compared to actual props and models from the 70’s and 80’s it disappoints.

I like the idea behind Carver but he’s just to OTT, the scene where Carver is discussing is evil plans to employees around the world is just too Dr Evil-esq. He lacks credibility as he’s so snidely bad. Stamper is ok as the lead henchman, it’s a shame Dr Kauffman has such a small role.

The remote-controlled car is a decent novelty and the carpark scene is fun even if it has a little to many convenient gadgets such as the wire cutter.

One of the film's strengths is Michelle Yeoh as Wai Lin, she’s by far the most badass Bond Girl sidekick in the series. For first time I’d argue they could have given a character a spin off film. The film really picks up once she’s in it and the two make a good duo.

So after praising Joe Don Baker in Goldeneye I already sick of him now!

It’s a decent film, let down by a bland villain. I think in the series its actually a bit underrated. I liked it, I feel 6 is to low, but 7 is maybe too high. Ahhh feeling generous, a 7/10.



I just saw "A view to a Kill".

Why is this the one considered the weakest Bond movie during the Moore era? It has the best acting from Moore, both as a competent agent and general hero, has a very good villain who barely makes any mistakes outside of the basic "just shoot Bond" complain (Walken pulls a psycopathic maniac with the smarts to back off his crazy excellently, the shooting at the mine was chilling, and the way he gets the closer to a success in the whole series is a show of his good planning) , a henchewoman who stole the show by matching Bond at every step of the way, a very good villain plot (derivative of Goldfinger, but still), a plot that flows very well and it's not bogged down by excessive slapstick, has some really good setpieces, my favourite being the burning elevator, and even the main theme was good! I was shocked to learn this one is considered the weakest of this period, and even an old shame for Moore himself. Am I missing something? If I had to nitpick I'd say that Tanya Robers as the Bond girl of the day is somewhat mediocre, but even still, she manages to get some decent emotional scenes. That, and the KGB agent in the middle of the film dissapears from the movie for no reason, when she should have helped Bond take out Walken.

But overall, this is oddly the best Bond movie so far. I would say it's at the same level as Goldfinger, but with a more balanced writing that avoids any contrivance but never reaches its smarts. Surprising 9/10 for me.



You know it deserves the GOTY.

Come join The 2018 Obscure Game Monthly Review Thread.

Veknoid_Outcast said:

The World is Not Enough

The franchise falls back on some bad habits here. The supporting cast is solid--minus Richards who looks amateurish--and the locations are beautiful, but some of the action seems tedious and overlong, the puns excessive, and the pacing slow. 

5/10

Agreed.

I did like this movie's BMW...where was the Aston Martin? The boat chase was ridiculous and the title credits (I liked the song) should've rolled after King exploded in the blast. This movie also seemed to drag on and on...not as badly as Thunderball though. Bond slept with three women in this movie. The doctor, the bad guy, and the girl with the most ridiculous name: Christmas Jones. At least she was smart as a nuclear physicist.

I liked the plot at first and I was with it until they killed Valentin Dimitri Zoukofski. My favorite Brosnan era character. :(

5/10



Die Another Day

Well, it took 20 tries, but we're here: the worst ever Bond film. It pains me to write that, because Brosnan, in my mind, is second only to Connery. He really does not deserve this mess of a movie. Let's start with the good. There are a handful of great little moments, including Bond turning of an MRI machine and catching a de-magnetized pistol in mid-air and Bond shattering his own windshield to save a submerged Jinx. In general, Brosnan is good here, despite the shoddy script. Even though he looks a bit tired, he's definitely still invested in the role, unlike Connery who phoned in his final (canon) appearance. What else? Rosamund Pike is a great addition, but her character sadly has nowhere to go. Dench as M is good as well, as is Cleese as the new Quartermaster. In fact, the middle act in London is the film's peak, with Bond playing off both M and Q in the underground, off-the-books M16 base. Some nice Easter eggs in there, too, for Bond fans. I also like the sword fight between Bond and Graves. It's a bit unlikely, but I really appreciate the practical effects, especially in a movie awash in clumsy, unconvincing digital effects.

And that brings us to the bad. The movie looks rough. Whether it's a cartoon Halle Berry cliff diving or a cartoon Bond parasailing down an avalanche of water (lord, what were they thinking), or just the flat cinematography, it's lacking any sense of style. There is one shot I adore, which shows Bond walking past a row of sparkling, revolving mirrors, but that is the exception to the rule. Combine the bad special effects, limp photography, and inferior production design, and you have a recipe for disaster. The editing is also a mess. There are several car chase sequences where it's difficult to know where the vehicles are in relation to each other, or the environment. Lots of quick, jumpy cuts too. 

The movie is also one of the most indulgent of the series. So many superfluous explosions and perfunctory chases. So many cheesy one-liners and childish innuendo. The stunt casting of Madonna. A space laser, an ice palace, an invisible car, a henchman named Mr. Kil. That final, embarrassing scene with Moneypenny. All those references to classic Bond movies gone by. I don't know if Die Another Day is meant to be a tribute gone horribly wrong or a parody gone horribly right.

Oh, and the theme song is dreadful.

Edit: I've been going back and forth on this score all day. I feel like 3/10 is a little harsh--this is a professional production that can be entertaining in a turn-off-your-brain kind of way--and 4/10 seems too kind. Screw it, it's a 3/10. Sigh, Brosnan deserved so much better. We all did.

1) From Russia With Love
2) On Her Majesty's Secret Service
3) Goldfinger
4) For Your Eyes Only
5) The Spy Who Loved Me
6) GoldenEye
7) Licence to Kill
8) Dr. No
9) Tomorrow Never Dies
10) The Living Daylights
11) Thunderball
12) The Man With The Golden Gun
13) The World is Not Enough
14) Octopussy

15) Live and Let Die
16) You Only Live Twice
17) Moonraker
18) A View to a Kill
19) Diamonds Are Forever
20) Die Another Day

Last edited by Veknoid_Outcast - on 01 March 2020