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Forums - Politics Discussion - House minority leader trying to blame video games for mass shootings. Update: Walmart pulls violent video game ads for 2 weeks

Azzanation said:

If your method is to take something away to solve an issue than its a fail on our behalf. How about solve the issue that causes it rather than give the government more control. As I have witnessed first hand in this country, give the government an inch, they take a mile. We lost all rights to a lot of things. And if the USA still have gun massacres after implying laws than expect them to keep taking until there is nothing left to take. I don't agree with taking something away from people especially since the majority has done nothing wrong with guns apart from some bad eggs.  

I will say it again... You don't loose access to guns if you are a law-abiding, healthy citizen, simple as that.

I have owned guns, I still use guns... Last time I used a gun was about a year ago when I had to assist a farmer and kill about 50 sheep after his truck rolled over.
But no longer do you see an old fart cocking a shotgun in a rocking chair, yelling at kids to get off his lawn.

Azzanation said:

That's because the problem with people is we want to pass the blame onto something. Its no different to exactly what you are doing instead of blaming video games, you are blaming guns. 

Missing the point yet again.
Video Games can't be blamed in Australia because there are no gun massacres.

Azzanation said:

Do you honestly think fining car drivers because they lowered there car a couple centimetres lower than it should is a life and death situation? Sorry to say, cars actually handle better the lower they are. Its a stupid rule in place much like having a car exhaust a little louder than the limit.. because government control, not safety. And just to prove my point, Motorbikes are aloud to have loud exhausts because it acts like a safety feature so others can here them coming. Why cant we have Neon lights on the bottom of our cars? because of safety? Yeah right. Its incredibly sad how the AUS goverment wont let you do anything to your car. It has nothing to do with safety, just controlling your citizens and making money. Sorry if you believe otherwise.

As a road crash technician who works in this field? Yes. Yes it actually does make a difference.
If you think you have more qualifications than me on this front...

As for Neon lights... You are only allowed what is specified by the road traffic standards, this is set in such a way so that braking and indicating become prominent light features of a vehicle for the easy identification of what drivers are doing... Otherwise our roads would look like a Christmas festival with all the lights on vehicles.
For example many people back in the late 90's thanks to the fast and the furious were having red and blue neons and people were getting confused with emergency service vehicles, which isn't a good thing, because that drives complacency for when the real thing does come along.

The fact you cannot recognize this is rather troubling...

You can still have neon lights and so on if you are in a stationary position, you just can't have them turned on whilst on the road.

Azzanation said:

Thank You for admitting Drugs and Guns are different. 

We can own guns, I know but the sneaky thing Australia did was destroy majority of guns so people couldn't actually buy guns which meant buying means imports, special licenses, and finding a place that actually sells guns. yet we still have bike gang shootings all the time. Strange. 

BTW Pump Action Shotguns are banned from my knowledge in AUS. I would assume same would be for some high powered weaponry as well.

 

It wasn't a sneaky thing. The majority of Australians support gun control, there was tons of debate, you would actually be a minority in the way you think on this topic in Australia.

Bikie Gangs are being tackled via other approaches.

Why would anyone need Pump Action Shotguns? Do you like eating led when you kill a roo?

Azzanation said:

I understand both points however its not those who buy guns from shops that are the ones going on these killing sprees. Its also not what Americans want by removing freedom from there citizens because that's basically what it is, removing freedom from those who didn't do anything wrong. Just because some mental idiots go on rampages doesn't mean we need to take away things from the good people.

You aren't removing a freedom, you can still own guns with gun control.

Azzanation said:

How about ban cigarettes because they cause more deaths per year than these shootings. DO we take cigarettes away from people? DO you stop people from driving cars? do we take the extreme to avoid these death tolls because we care about saving lives, or do you just hate guns and so guns are to blame but anything else that can kill you is okay because a road death is different to a shooting death.

I would be fully supportive of banning cigarettes. They smell, they are bad for the environment, they are bad for yours and the people around you, health.

Azzanation said:

How about ban cigarettes because they cause more deaths per year than these shootings. DO we take cigarettes away from people? DO you stop people from driving cars? do we take the extreme to avoid these death tolls because we care about saving lives, or do you just hate guns and so guns are to blame but anything else that can kill you is okay because a road death is different to a shooting death.

If you do nothing... Nothing changes. - And clearly whatever reasoning/arguments/blame-pointing/whatever else the USA has been doing over the past decades in regards to curbing gun massacres simply has not worked.

But what has worked? Gun Control. In Australia.

Conina said:

Are you really sure that the rules about ground clearance have nothing to do with safety for the people within and around the vehicle?

If you are lowering your car too much, you can damage it while driving over an obstacle. That damage (f.e. the axes of the car) can put the people in the car and/or other road users in danger, don't you think? 

And are you really sure that driving down a hill too fast can't put people in the car and/or other road users in danger?

Speed limits and monitoring its compliance can be inconvenient, but in most cases it helps prevent traffic deaths (additionally to making money).

There is actually more to it than that.

Vehicles are designed for crumple zones... It is basic physics, crumple zones absorb kinetic energy. - If you were to take two identical vehicles and substantially lower one... What happens during an impact? Not just with another vehicle, but with animals, pedestrians... The lot?

VAMatt said:

Someone here must worship at the altar of the state.  Wow.  In some sense, you are demonstrating Azz's point about the authoritarian nature of Australia.  You seem to have bought right in.  

I'll grant you one thing though - you are right that the US is not as free as it is sometimes given credit for. That's a reputation that was once deserved, but probably isn't anymore, unfortunately.  

I don't agree with all laws, but I have seen first hand the effect of what road laws do, I have seen the effect that gun control has done... And will stand-by those legislative choices enacted by the various right-wing and left-wing governments of the day.






--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

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It's totally incorrect to blame video games. My hope here is that GOP are actually using some sort of strategy to protect our gun rights, but I've seen the left also blame video games in past decades. This is most likely just a boomer issue and their generation not understanding video games. 



teamsilent13 said:

It's totally incorrect to blame video games. My hope here is that GOP are actually using some sort of strategy to protect our gun rights, but I've seen the left also blame video games in past decades. This is most likely just a boomer issue and their generation not understanding video games. 

Indeed.

There were literally two world wars before video games were even invented.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

I like nukes.... Why can't I buy one? Where is my freedom? Nukes don't kill people people kill people...

Do you see how ridiculous this is?



Chrkeller said:

I'm bailing out as well. God as my witness I would rather argue with a flat earther than a gun lunatic. The former is more rational.

I wouldn't call those flat earthers "rational" because that they certainly are not but the way they totally beat gun fanatics is in the fact that at least flat earthers are not dangerous, they are simply very ignorant which is bad but nowhere near as bad, evil or dangerous as gun fanatics can be, I think we can agree on that.



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Pemalite said: 

SIP

Okay, so a heads up, I was a mechanic who learnt, built, maintained and managed cars for a long time. So my knowledge in cars is what I consider decent. 

You say ground clearance is to save lives.. well I disagree with it especially since it doesn't explain the enforced rules of many other car mods etc. I learnt this the hard way when I was 21, I lowered my car professionally to the lowest limit Australia rules allowed, I was fined and was asked to raise my car because of my extractors hanged slightly lower than the chassis which made my entire car illegal to drive.. $800 later I had no choice. Was it a safety issue? My car was tested and was able to actually handle better than the standard cars off the production line and I never scrapped underneath. So more handling in Australia's terms is consider unsafe.. that makes no sense to me.

Also doesn't explain why Neon lights are considered a safety issue, Tinting your windows too dark is a safety issue, having a loud exhaust pipe being a safety issue. I can name plenty of enforced rules Australia does that has no bearing on safety. Also If a licensed driver cannot tell the difference between Emergency lights to Neon lights under cars than maybe they shouldn't have a license and use our roads. We are not talking about replacing our brake light colours to green. They are pointless ground lights that only add to your visibility to others. So more visibility and handling is bad.. that's Australia's logic.. oh wait, its to fine innocent people.

So do you think any of the mentioned above is to save lives or to control people? I can tell you its all about controlling people.

I understand you deal with car wrecks but blame the drivers not the cars. Its the exact same logic you are using on blaming guns instead of the killers. Both Cars and Guns can be used as weapons and cars are much more dangerous since they are tons of metal that can also take any idiot on the road to kill people.

Sooooo you say video games are not to blame in Australia because we don't have shootings.. so why the heck do we still ban and heavily sensor video games in Australia? Why cant I buy Hatred on Steam? We don't have Guns, but we still blame games for peoples actions. Give the government an inch and they take a mile. That point is exactly what happens.

Lets look at Russia, a country who enforced gun laws to avoid more killings.

---

https://www.usacarry.com/guns-russia/

Strict Gun Laws and Less Guns But Higher Murder Rate
While Russia has far fewer guns in circulation than the U.S. and strict gun laws, Russia has a much higher murder rate, according to Russia Today. Russian police also regularly seize guns from the public and melt them down, like recently in the Rostov-On-Don region, according to the website.

Approximately how many non-military guns are registered in Russia? Are There many un-registered guns there? Are most Russian crimes committed with unregistered guns?
According to the same report, the Russian Federation holds approximately twelve million unregistered guns illegally. Russia requires gun owners to register all guns. Police investigated about 26,500 crimes related to the illegal circulation of weapons, at that time.
Unregistered weapons or weapons acquired by a person who used it for criminal purposes make up the majority of the weapons used in crimes according to various reports. While Russia maintains relatively restrictive gun control legislation and strict procedures regulating the purchase and storage of firearms by private individuals, there is a huge black market in Russia for weapons. Most weapons used by criminals are stolen military or police guns, guns sold by law enforcement personnel who seized illegal weapons from criminals and did not register the confiscation of those firearms, or firearms made from modified non-lethal guns, according to a legalization of weapons article on the Russian NewsRU website.

---

Now after reading all that, my point is that America has a culture issue not a gun issue. Because as Russia has been trying to change for the better, the criminals still get the guns.. and don't tell me the USA doesn't have a black market scene either. Its probably even worse than Russia.

You keep comparing Australia to America. Just because Australia did it and it worked doesn't mean it will work in the US. When Guns were allowed in Australia, we had a very strong Western culture, that changed over the years, that's what really stopped the shootings, not removing guns. Also AUS doesn't have the same issues as the US as they have a huge black market scene, Gangs and the crime is much more different.

End of the Day, if we don't change the culture than these crimes will continue to happen regardless if you remove things from the public. The blame game is easy when you don't like something but reality is its not the Gun that kills people, its the people that kill people.

Last edited by Azzanation - on 13 August 2019

CrazyGamer2017 said:
Chrkeller said:

I'm bailing out as well. God as my witness I would rather argue with a flat earther than a gun lunatic. The former is more rational.

I wouldn't call those flat earthers "rational" because that they certainly are not but the way they totally beat gun fanatics is in the fact that at least flat earthers are not dangerous, they are simply very ignorant which is bad but nowhere near as bad, evil or dangerous as gun fanatics can be, I think we can agree on that.

Rational in the sense, they see the horizon and it is flat.  And they don't understand advanced mathematics and physics.  Gun lunatics are flat out liars.  There is a difference between ignorantly mistaken versus being a bald faced liar.  I would rather deal with the former.  I have no use for the latter.



tripenfall said:
I like nukes.... Why can't I buy one? Where is my freedom? Nukes don't kill people people kill people...

Do you see how ridiculous this is?

That is a super extreme case, and completely ridiculous.  

With that said, I don't think I mind private nukes.  



Azzanation said:

You say ground clearance is to save lives.. well I disagree with it especially since it doesn't explain the enforced rules of many other car mods etc. I learnt this the hard way when I was 21, I lowered my car professionally to the lowest limit Australia rules allowed, I was fined and was asked to raise my car because of my extractors hanged slightly lower than the chassis which made my entire car illegal to drive.. $800 later I had no choice. Was it a safety issue? My car was tested and was able to actually handle better than the standard cars off the production line and I never scrapped underneath. So more handling in Australia's terms is consider unsafe.. that makes no sense to me.

Lowering a vehicle does change the center of gravity which results in better handling. - Not disputing that, it's just common basic physics.

But you are looking at it from a more selfish perspective rather than when said lowered vehicle has a collision with another.

Azzanation said:

Also doesn't explain why Neon lights are considered a safety issue, Tinting your windows too dark is a safety issue, having a loud exhaust pipe being a safety issue. I can name plenty of enforced rules Australia does that has no bearing on safety. Also If a licensed driver cannot tell the difference between Emergency lights to Neon lights under cars than maybe they shouldn't have a license and use our roads. We are not talking about replacing our brake light colours to green. They are pointless ground lights that only add to your visibility to others. So more visibility and handling is bad.. that's Australia's logic.. oh wait, its to fine innocent people.

Neon lights being a safety issue I have already touched upon. So I won't repeat myself there... Go back and re-read my prior post/posts.
People were having red and blue neon lights flashing and confusing road drivers.

Tinting your windows too dark results in less visibility at night... But that's just common sense and most certainly a safety issue.

Loud exhaust isn't a safety issue per-say, it just adds to noise pollution.

Azzanation said:

So do you think any of the mentioned above is to save lives or to control people? I can tell you its all about controlling people.

Nah. People ruined a good thing. - These laws don't exist in a vacuum, they only started to exist because people were being moronic and abusing various aspects. (I.E. Neon Lights.)

Azzanation said:

I understand you deal with car wrecks but blame the drivers not the cars. Its the exact same logic you are using on blaming guns instead of the killers. Both Cars and Guns can be used as weapons and cars are much more dangerous since they are tons of metal that can also take any idiot on the road to kill people.

I blame both the drivers and cars.

Just like I blame gun related massacres on the guns and the individuals pulling the trigger.

Azzanation said:

Sooooo you say video games are not to blame in Australia because we don't have shootings.. so why the heck do we still ban and heavily sensor video games in Australia? Why cant I buy Hatred on Steam? We don't have Guns, but we still blame games for peoples actions. Give the government an inch and they take a mile. That point is exactly what happens.

Has Censorship even been an issue since we revised the ratings?

But maybe you should have looked into the issue of "Hatred" on Steam. - It wasn't blocked because of the Australian Government or our rating system, it was blocked because the developer self-imposed the restriction.

https://www.kotaku.com.au/2015/06/hatred-is-now-region-locked-in-australia/

Azzanation said:
<SNIP>

Now after reading all that, my point is that America has a culture issue not a gun issue. Because as Russia has been trying to change for the better, the criminals still get the guns.. and don't tell me the USA doesn't have a black market scene either. Its probably even worse than Russia.

I would argue that America has a gun culture issue and a gun issue.

Azzanation said:

You keep comparing Australia to America. Just because Australia did it and it worked doesn't mean it will work in the US. When Guns were allowed in Australia, we had a very strong Western culture, that changed over the years, that's what really stopped the shootings, not removing guns. Also AUS doesn't have the same issues as the US as they have a huge black market scene, Gangs and the crime is much more different.

End of the Day, if we don't change the culture than these crimes will continue to happen regardless if you remove things from the public. The blame game is easy when you don't like something but reality is its not the Gun that kills people, its the people that kill people.

It's worked for other nations other than Australia, it works more often than it doesn't.
I haven't actually looked into the extensiveness of Russia's gun legislation, but maybe there is room for improvement?

The US having a black market is something they can work on.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

At the end of the day, as gun ownership in the US has increased, violent crime has decreased. So, there's just no good case to be made for reigning in gun ownership, even if you take out the basic human rights issue that comes with gun control. It's a fact that guns save lives, on the whole.