By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Sony Discussion - What new inputs could the DualShock 5 add?

Replicant said:
JimmyFantasy said:

It's a fact that Nintendo designed or used first many of the input features common nowdays in controllers.. it's absolutely history of videogames.

Nintendo implemented for first: D-PAD (nes, gamewatch), 4-buttons layout (snes), shoulder buttons (snes), analog stick (n64), rumble (n64), motion sensors (wii), gamepad with touchscreen (wii U), detachable dual controllers (switch), hd-rumble (switch), dual-screen gameplay (ds), microphone gameplay (ds), stereoscopic gameplay (virtualboy, 3ds).

It's simply their philosophy to experiment and innovate on input device and gameplay, and it's one of the reason Nintendo is still here unlike Atari or Sega.

Why is it that some Nintendo fans have such a hard time understanding that nearly every innovation is a refinement of something existing? Like Sony and Microsoft, Nintendo has popularized a lot of things but that doesn't mean they invented them.

I agree that the technology proceeds through improvements over time and that the devices are continuously refined.

But the point here is not to be a fan of one producer or another. For example, I like Sony as much as Nintendo, I think my absolute favorite console of all times is the first Playstation.

But when we talk about those who brought innovation first, in the gaming console field, and specifically on the controllers, I don't think there is much to say about giving credit to Nintendo.



Around the Network
JimmyFantasy said: 

I agree that the technology proceeds through improvements over time and that the devices are continuously refined.

But the point here is not to be a fan of one producer or another. For example, I like Sony as much as Nintendo, I think my absolute favorite console of all times is the first Playstation.

But when we talk about those who brought innovation first, in the gaming console field, and specifically on the controllers, I don't think there is much to say about giving credit to Nintendo.

No doubt about that. After all, the NES was released 11 years before the PS.

But there's no reason to ignore all the great inventions by e.g. Mattel and Atari that came before Nintendo.



One issue nobody has brought up is you can't jump and aim at the same time in FPS. You aim with your right thumb and the jump button is usually always X which you also uses with with your right thumb. 1 one way to solve this is put 2 buttons under the controller which can be used for jump.

The problem with this it's already complicated using a controller, most games requires the player to know how to use 12-14 button instantly and adding more buttons will only make it harder for new players get into console gaming.



6x master league achiever in starcraft2

Beaten Sigrun on God of war mode

Beaten DOOM ultra-nightmare with NO endless ammo-rune, 2x super shotgun and no decoys on ps4 pro.

1-0 against Grubby in Wc3 frozen throne ladder!!

d21lewis said:

I just wanted to point out that a lot of that pic is incorrect--there was paidponline before XBL, memory cards before PS1, and discs before PS1 also. But yeah, Nintendo doesn't really invent anything. They just take existing stuff and use it in creative ways. And, like everyone else, when something works it becomes standard. When it doesn't, it gets forgotten.

Problem is, people are conflating innovation, with invention. They're not the same thing. Innovation is about more than just inventing something new, it's about using something that's already there, and making something new out of it. Motion Controls weren't a new concept when the Wii was introduced, but the Wii used the concept in a new and better way than previous attempts. That's innovation. People like to bring up Pics like that to try and make an argument for Nintendo not inventing anything, an argument nobody made to begin with.



NightlyPoe said:

BraLoD said:

No, my hand naturally falls where it is.

Whatever 3D movement I need to make has my two hands placed perfectly. My two thumbs are always aligned when moving.

I sincerely hope they never change that.

I think you're just used to the inferior design.  I mean, there's a reason why literally no one else has had a D-pad default layout in over 20 years.

And probably why everyone else's d-pad are such trash.  Other controller layouts are one of the reasons I avoid using those controllers.



A warrior keeps death on the mind from the moment of their first breath to the moment of their last.



Around the Network
NightlyPoe said:
BraLoD said:

No, my hand naturally falls where it is.

Whatever 3D movement I need to make has my two hands placed perfectly. My two thumbs are always aligned when moving.

I sincerely hope they never change that.

I think you're just used to the inferior design.  I mean, there's a reason why literally no one else has had a D-pad default layout in over 20 years.

It's not inferior, it's symetry, it's perfection.

Even if I'm primarly a PlayStation player since I got into it, I've played a damn lot of systems with different controls.

The first time I got a 360 controller in my hand I told my friend that I loved to grab and it specially it's upwards triggers over what the DS3 offered. Offset analogs tho? Nope.

DS4 fixed the grip feeling the DS line needed (as I grew up and the DS1 to 3 where didn't fit that well in my hand now) and has been by far the best controller I've ever used in my life. It has it all set right, it needs 0 design changes.

Even so I can still tell that the it could benefit from making the lightbar able to be turned off and giving that touchpad some actual function as a mini screen.

To me the symmetrical design is the superior one, it makes 3D movements perfectly balanced while playing by having both sticks in the same line, as are my thumbs, and to 2D games where you don't usually need any sticks my hand is also perfectly in line.

Now matter how I look at it, it's the best option.

Nothing wrong with going offset tho, you may like that, I'm glad Sony is sticking to symmetrical, tho.



the-pi-guy said:
BraLoD said:

No, my hand naturally falls where it is.

Whatever 3D movement I need to make has my two hands placed perfectly. My two thumbs are always aligned when moving.

I sincerely hope they never change that.

Don't you know the natural thumb position is like 40 degrees, not the unnatural 80 degrees that the DS4 makes you put your hands?  

But shouldn't I divide it by the pi, guy?



I wouldn't mind seeing some removable paddle buttons on the back like Xbox Elite controller, but I doubt it will happen.



NightlyPoe said:

Like I said, it's probably just because you're used to it.  Symmetry doesn't really mean anything unless you're actually looking down.

Pi-guy made a joke about the 40 vs. 80 degree as if it doesn't make a difference, but it does.  The original Playstation controller was specifically designed so that the average person's thumb would naturally rest on the D-pad.  Goodness knows how much ergonomic testing went into having the average person's thumb be as comfortable as possible.

The analog sticks, not so much.  They are where they are out of pure 1997 necessity.  They require reach and a less-than-ideal adjustment of one's grip.  For you, you've probably adjusted so that you don't notice it.  But for someone such as myself, when I use Switch or 360 D-pad, it's legit awkward and uncomfortable because my use of the D-pad is relatively rare and I don't practice it.

I'd also note that I think the default design of controllers has evolved into a pretty awkward setup, but that's another story (and one I'm not sure how to fix).

To me the symmetry is very important, more than just because I am used to it, but that point you made about using the 360 controller makes sense.  I think you find the D-Pad on the 360 awkward because you rarely use it.  Ergonomics can be more than just initial comfort, often it is about stress on the body based on repetitive use.  

I don't know if there is in fact any major differences in hand stress if either the d-pad or the analog stick is in any particular position.  It may very well be that where the d-pad is or the analog sticks are may have zero actual ergonomic benefit beyond what your hand muscle memory is used to.  What I do know is that most used vs least used is a major factor for me.  I find I use both analog sticks the most and the d-pad and 4 input buttons the least.  My default resting position is on the analog sticks.  I do not want one hand vs the other hand inverted in most used inputs vs least use inputs.  They should have the same default resting positions.

If both the analog sticks were in the top position I might try that, but based on decades of hand muscle memory I feel like it would get extremely hard to get used to and would have no ergonomic benefits.

I have used both playstation and xbox controllers since they existed.  I have always found the xbox one the most awkward.



A warrior keeps death on the mind from the moment of their first breath to the moment of their last.



TheMisterManGuy said:

Problem is, people are conflating innovation, with invention. They're not the same thing. Innovation is about more than just inventing something new, it's about using something that's already there, and making something new out of it. Motion Controls weren't a new concept when the Wii was introduced, but the Wii used the concept in a new and better way than previous attempts. That's innovation. People like to bring up Pics like that to try and make an argument for Nintendo not inventing anything, an argument nobody made to begin with.

You do have a point but regarding bold let's not ignore that it nearly always starts with claims about how all Sony is doing is copying Nintendo. Very rarely, I see people claiming that Nintendo never invented anything. For instance on page 5, I wrote "nearly every innovation is a refinement of something existing" and "innovations are in most cases refinements". You got it backwards.

On the contrary, I often see Nintendo fans claiming that Nintendo is behind every innovation and that Sony is always copying Nintendo. For instance in the comment I responded to, it is claimed that Nintendo is behind innovations such as the analog stick and motion control.

Analog stick:

Motion control:

Funnily enough, the same people never include examples where inspiration goes the other way.