Exactly. I thought I made that clear.

Why is it that some Nintendo fans have such a hard time understanding that nearly every innovation is a refinement of something existing? Like Sony and Microsoft, Nintendo has popularized a lot of things but that doesn't mean they invented them.

I just wanted to point out that a lot of that pic is incorrect--there was paidponline before XBL, memory cards before PS1, and discs before PS1 also. But yeah, Nintendo doesn't really invent anything. They just take existing stuff and use it in creative ways. And, like everyone else, when something works it becomes standard. When it doesn't, it gets forgotten.

All of the current big 3 did things that weren't being done and have become standard. From Achievements to "L3/R3". It's the industry. I agree with your point though. I'm just an asshole sometimes. 

*Edit* I got bored and googled a lot of those things in that first image and many only vaugely resemble what Nintendo did with the preexisting tech. It's almost as bad as the Game Informer article that said the first Achievements were these stickers you got for mailing in pictures of video game scores! I mean if you really want to stretch your imagination, I guess technically they count...

1: Probably. And it's not my pics but at least they show that "innovations" are in most cases "refinements".

2: Just to be clear, I didn't like your comment because I agree that you're an asshole

I agree that the technology proceeds through improvements over time and that the devices are continuously refined.

But the point here is not to be a fan of one producer or another. For example, I like Sony as much as Nintendo, I think my absolute favorite console of all times is the first Playstation.

But when we talk about those who brought innovation first, in the gaming console field, and specifically on the controllers, I don't think there is much to say about giving credit to Nintendo.

No doubt about that. After all, the NES was released 11 years before the PS.

But there's no reason to ignore all the great inventions by e.g. Mattel and Atari that came before Nintendo.

One issue nobody has brought up is you can't jump and aim at the same time in FPS. You aim with your right thumb and the jump button is usually always X which you also uses with with your right thumb. 1 one way to solve this is put 2 buttons under the controller which can be used for jump.

The problem with this it's already complicated using a controller, most games requires the player to know how to use 12-14 button instantly and adding more buttons will only make it harder for new players get into console gaming.

Problem is, people are conflating innovation, with invention. They're not the same thing. Innovation is about more than just inventing something new, it's about using something that's already there, and making something new out of it. Motion Controls weren't a new concept when the Wii was introduced, but the Wii used the concept in a new and better way than previous attempts. That's innovation. People like to bring up Pics like that to try and make an argument for Nintendo not inventing anything, an argument nobody made to begin with.

And probably why everyone else's d-pad are such trash.  Other controller layouts are one of the reasons I avoid using those controllers.

To me the symmetry is very important, more than just because I am used to it, but that point you made about using the 360 controller makes sense.  I think you find the D-Pad on the 360 awkward because you rarely use it.  Ergonomics can be more than just initial comfort, often it is about stress on the body based on repetitive use.  

I don't know if there is in fact any major differences in hand stress if either the d-pad or the analog stick is in any particular position.  It may very well be that where the d-pad is or the analog sticks are may have zero actual ergonomic benefit beyond what your hand muscle memory is used to.  What I do know is that most used vs least used is a major factor for me.  I find I use both analog sticks the most and the d-pad and 4 input buttons the least.  My default resting position is on the analog sticks.  I do not want one hand vs the other hand inverted in most used inputs vs least use inputs.  They should have the same default resting positions.

If both the analog sticks were in the top position I might try that, but based on decades of hand muscle memory I feel like it would get extremely hard to get used to and would have no ergonomic benefits.

I have used both playstation and xbox controllers since they existed.  I have always found the xbox one the most awkward.