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Forums - Sales Discussion - Global Hardware 18 May 2019

KLXVER said:
Did the all digital console make the Xbox consoles sell even less or what?lol

It's at the same price as the one with a disc drive, so really not worth it. I doubt that it will sell more than a handful units until a pricecut.



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Ganoncrotch said:
Wonder if some people are waiting on things like the Switch revision possibly being revealed at E3 before jumping in now to buy one... but I dunno is your average Switch buyer that clued into upcoming gaming news with stuff like that to put them off buying a system... they might be just outside playing sports in the sun because it's summer time I guess!

X1 pretty much dead in the water now in the EU, being outsold 5:1 and 7:1 by the Switch and PS4 respectively, then again I'll always say it, the Wii-U was doing numbers way worse than this and now Nintendo have the number 1 system so it's very possible with a good system and good marketing to get back into gamers good graces quite easily, people won't hold a "grudge" if they create a machine that gamers want.

I doubt the average consumer cares about E3, it wouldn’t shock me if most do not even know what E3 is.

Although you are right about generation over generation could be a whole new ballgame. Which is why I think Nintendo should get out of that and go with a shorter incremental gen approach rather than a “start from scratch” approach... which has led them to declines in sales on all but 5 of their hardware releases (NES, GB, DS, Wii, and Switch). 

Last edited by Jumpin - on 06 June 2019

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Bofferbrauer2 said:
KLXVER said:
Did the all digital console make the Xbox consoles sell even less or what?lol

It's at the same price as the one with a disc drive, so really not worth it. I doubt that it will sell more than a handful units until a pricecut.

I'm going to address this SAD situation one more time before moving on: Terrible execution. A lower price should have been THE hook for that particular SKU and it's not difficult at all to find the undeniably superior XBO-S for less than the SAD. The 3 digital pack-in games are all on Game Pass....outstanding. And that name. That name and the acronym that accompanies it. Did nobody at Xbox catch this? SAD has become the defacto way of referring to it. Not just on gaming forums, but by youtube content creators, and even the gaming press.



- "If you have the heart of a true winner, you can always get more pissed off than some other asshole."

KLXVER said:
Did the all digital console make the Xbox consoles sell even less or what?lol

i think xbox one is gone now which is a shame as the 360 was excellent



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COKTOE said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:

It's at the same price as the one with a disc drive, so really not worth it. I doubt that it will sell more than a handful units until a pricecut.

I'm going to address this SAD situation one more time before moving on: Terrible execution. A lower price should have been THE hook for that particular SKU and it's not difficult at all to find the undeniably superior XBO-S for less than the SAD. The 3 digital pack-in games are all on Game Pass....outstanding. And that name. That name and the acronym that accompanies it. Did nobody at Xbox catch this? SAD has become the defacto way of referring to it. Not just on gaming forums, but by youtube content creators, and even the gaming press.

It exactly happened how it was explained: Removing the disc drive won't reduce the retail price because any retailer with a brain will demand a hefty profit margin to put it on shelves, because no customer will buy physical games for such an SKU.

It's an idea that cannot be executed well. If Microsoft gifted the SKU to retailers, it would be available for a lower price than other SKUs, but that in turn makes it a financial nightmare for Microsoft. It's an idea where always at least one of the involved parties (console manufacturer, retailer, customer) gets screwed over, unlike the regular way of selling a console where it's possible for all parties to be winners.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

A Biased Review Reloaded / Open Your Eyes / Switch Shipments

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RolStoppable said:
COKTOE said:

I'm going to address this SAD situation one more time before moving on: Terrible execution. A lower price should have been THE hook for that particular SKU and it's not difficult at all to find the undeniably superior XBO-S for less than the SAD. The 3 digital pack-in games are all on Game Pass....outstanding. And that name. That name and the acronym that accompanies it. Did nobody at Xbox catch this? SAD has become the defacto way of referring to it. Not just on gaming forums, but by youtube content creators, and even the gaming press.

It exactly happened how it was explained: Removing the disc drive won't reduce the retail price because any retailer with a brain will demand a hefty profit margin to put it on shelves, because no customer will buy physical games for such an SKU.

It's an idea that cannot be executed well. If Microsoft gifted the SKU to retailers, it would be available for a lower price than other SKUs, but that in turn makes it a financial nightmare for Microsoft. It's an idea where always at least one of the involved parties (console manufacturer, retailer, customer) gets screwed over, unlike the regular way of selling a console where it's possible for all parties to be winners.

Mmm. Yes. I did completely forget about the retailer variable. What you say makes sense, but is there verifiable information to support it? If XBO hardware sales were increased from this SKU at a lower price point, and the retailer was profiting from each unit sold as it does, presumably, from every XBO SKU, would this not be a positive? Broker a deal. Shift orders slightly from software to hardware.

Assuming you're bang on correct, it's even worse than I realized.....So, such a concept, one that cannot inherently be executed well, went ahead for what reason(s) in your opinion? It's my day off and I'm exhausted. Be nice Rol.



- "If you have the heart of a true winner, you can always get more pissed off than some other asshole."

Sales dropping for everyone heading into E3. This could be a number of things really. People waiting to see if new hardware is going to be revealed, or even what new software is on the horizon. In any case, I expect Switch sales to pop back up above 200k after E3 at least, as it appears we will being seeing their exclusives drop steadily for the rest of the year.



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RolStoppable said:
COKTOE said:

I'm going to address this SAD situation one more time before moving on: Terrible execution. A lower price should have been THE hook for that particular SKU and it's not difficult at all to find the undeniably superior XBO-S for less than the SAD. The 3 digital pack-in games are all on Game Pass....outstanding. And that name. That name and the acronym that accompanies it. Did nobody at Xbox catch this? SAD has become the defacto way of referring to it. Not just on gaming forums, but by youtube content creators, and even the gaming press.

It exactly happened how it was explained: Removing the disc drive won't reduce the retail price because any retailer with a brain will demand a hefty profit margin to put it on shelves, because no customer will buy physical games for such an SKU.

It's an idea that cannot be executed well. If Microsoft gifted the SKU to retailers, it would be available for a lower price than other SKUs, but that in turn makes it a financial nightmare for Microsoft. It's an idea where always at least one of the involved parties (console manufacturer, retailer, customer) gets screwed over, unlike the regular way of selling a console where it's possible for all parties to be winners.

If an all digital console is supposed to take off, they'll have to do it like with smartphones: selling them for 1$/€ to retailers and earning through the digital sales.

At the same time, they will have to set the retail price somewhere north of $99 so the retailers will at least win enough from that sale that they could be persuaded to stock the item.



COKTOE said:

Mmm. Yes. I did completely forget about the retailer variable. What you say makes sense, but is there verifiable information to support it? If XBO hardware sales were increased from this SKU at a lower price point, and the retailer was profiting from each unit sold as it does, presumably, from every XBO SKU, would this not be a positive? Broker a deal. Shift orders slightly from software to hardware.

Assuming you're bang on correct, it's even worse than I realized.....So, such a concept, one that cannot inherently be executed well, went ahead for what reason(s) in your opinion? It's my day off and I'm exhausted. Be nice Rol.

The behavior of retailers should be enough verification. Retailers either refuse to stock the SAD or it's sold at the same or a higher price than the regular S which is cheaper to manufacture.

The benefits of a disc drive for a retailer are:

1. Physical games can be sold. This doesn't hold true for the SAD.
2. Selling physical games means that there is also a market for used physical games. This is something that retailers profit off more than selling new physical copies.
3. More store traffic because customers walk in for game purchases. When people are in a store, there's always a chance that they buy something in addition to the thing(s) they came in for in the first place.

Selling an all-digital console has multiple negative consequences for retailers, so even a much higher profit margin on the hardware sale is not necessarily enough for retailers to support a direction that ultimately removes from the equation of video game sales. From the retailers' perspective, it's in their best interest to stifle growth of digital game sales as much as possible, hence why a console manufacturer would have to make a tremendous concession to the price that they charge retailers for a console. That's why I talked about gifting in my previous post.

As for why Microsoft went ahead with the SAD anyway, it's late in the generation and therefore presents a good opportunity to try something out for the sake of hard data in the form of both retailer and consumer feedback. There's no real damage that Microsoft could take here, so what they learn from this endeavor can be applied to their strategy for their next generation console. They can either decide that there's no point whatsoever in pursuing this direction or try to make adjustments to achieve a better result than this time.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

A Biased Review Reloaded / Open Your Eyes / Switch Shipments

Jumpin said:
Ganoncrotch said:
Wonder if some people are waiting on things like the Switch revision possibly being revealed at E3 before jumping in now to buy one... but I dunno is your average Switch buyer that clued into upcoming gaming news with stuff like that to put them off buying a system... they might be just outside playing sports in the sun because it's summer time I guess!

X1 pretty much dead in the water now in the EU, being outsold 5:1 and 7:1 by the Switch and PS4 respectively, then again I'll always say it, the Wii-U was doing numbers way worse than this and now Nintendo have the number 1 system so it's very possible with a good system and good marketing to get back into gamers good graces quite easily, people won't hold a "grudge" if they create a machine that gamers want.

I doubt the average consumer cares about E3, it wouldn’t shock me if most do not even know what E3 is.

Although you are right about generation over generation could be a whole new ballgame. Which is why I think Nintendo should get out of that and go with a shorter incremental gen approach rather than a “start from scratch” approach... which has led them to declines in sales on all but 5 of their hardware releases (NES, GB, DS, Wii, and Switch). 

Why do you think so?

PS sends newsletters about E3 as well as open discount season during E3 and market it on PS store, internet ads, and other places. Do you it doesn't hit the average consumer?



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When PS4 will hit 100m consoles sold: Before Christmas 2019

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