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Democratic Support of UBI and Abortion at the same time is Hypocrisy

Yes 8 26.67%
 
No 22 73.33%
 
Total:30
vivster on 21 May 2019
Baalzamon said:
vivster said:

A solution for this would be mandatory screenings and subsequent abortions for seriously damaged fetuses. I doubt a mother who doesn't take care of herself would want a disabled kid anyway.

So now you are going to force the abortion of damaged fetuses? You are once again dictating what the mother has to do with her body...which seems to be people's entire problem with not allowing abortion in the first place.

I'm putting a scenario out there where the mother absolutely decides she still wants the baby. So nobody can tell her she can't have it, and nobody can tell her she can't drink during pregnancy cause that is her choice. Baby is born disabled, that absolutely just became the mother's fault for directly causing a person to have to live their whole life with a disability.

It's called punishing people for a crime. Willingly ruining a human's life is a crime. That's why we also "dictate" what humans are allowed to put in their body before getting into their car. Or how we "dictate" what small children have to put into their body to not get terrible diseases and infect others.

Allowing everything or nothing isn't the debate here. There obviously have to be rules that need to be enforced. It's called "society". That is, if laws make any sense and are meant to protect people, which the recently updated abortion laws are not.



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0D0 on 21 May 2019

Abortion is murder.



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Baalzamon on 21 May 2019
vivster said:
Baalzamon said:

So now you are going to force the abortion of damaged fetuses? You are once again dictating what the mother has to do with her body...which seems to be people's entire problem with not allowing abortion in the first place.

I'm putting a scenario out there where the mother absolutely decides she still wants the baby. So nobody can tell her she can't have it, and nobody can tell her she can't drink during pregnancy cause that is her choice. Baby is born disabled, that absolutely just became the mother's fault for directly causing a person to have to live their whole life with a disability.

It's called punishing people for a crime. Willingly ruining a human's life is a crime. That's why we also "dictate" what humans are allowed to put in their body before getting into their car. Or how we "dictate" what small children have to put into their body to not get terrible diseases and infect others.

Allowing everything or nothing isn't the debate here. There obviously have to be rules that need to be enforced. It's called "society". That is, if laws make any sense and are meant to protect people, which the recently updated abortion laws are not.

Willingly ruining a human life...but the people saying abortion is ok are absolutely saying it isn't a human life. They are saying it's just this thing you can end. If causing them to be disabled is willingly ruining their life, then isn't killing them also doing that?



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vivster on 21 May 2019
Baalzamon said:
vivster said:

It's called punishing people for a crime. Willingly ruining a human's life is a crime. That's why we also "dictate" what humans are allowed to put in their body before getting into their car. Or how we "dictate" what small children have to put into their body to not get terrible diseases and infect others.

Allowing everything or nothing isn't the debate here. There obviously have to be rules that need to be enforced. It's called "society". That is, if laws make any sense and are meant to protect people, which the recently updated abortion laws are not.

Willingly ruining a human life...but the people saying abortion is ok are absolutely saying it isn't a human life. They are saying it's just this thing you can end. If causing them to be disabled is willingly ruining their life, then isn't killing them also doing that?

There is no human life until it is ready to be born. So you can't kill a human with an abortion because there is no human to kill yet. But knowingly and willingly letting a baby to be born with serious complications is despicable and should be punished by law, if not prevented altogether.



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sethnintendo on 21 May 2019

How do you anti abortion people feel about the Alabama recently passed law which will prob get struck down?

No exceptions after 8 weeks including incest and rape. So you guys want a bunch of rape and incest babies running around? I know the gene pool isn't the best in states like Alabama but I didn't know they were actively trying to make it worse till now.



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DonFerrari on 21 May 2019
vivster said:
DonFerrari said:

It is alive, and depending on the place you look abortion is permitted even after there is a heartbeat

https://www.factcheck.org/2019/02/addressing-new-yorks-new-abortion-law/

This have that until 24 weeks it is open to the mother to abort, after it then you have risk to the mother or preganancy not viable.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetal_viability

A fetus when reaching 24 weeks already have a 40-70% chance of living if given birth instead of killed.

It is permitted only in cases where the mother's life is in danger or there's something seriously wrong with the fetus. In which case when you abort you are not losing a life, you're saving one.

But we're not talking about 24 weeks here, we're talking about less than 10, at which point there is nothing alive that even resembles a human.

Have you read the link?

Under the old law, New York criminalized abortion unless it was a “justifiable abortional act” — meaning it was within 24 weeks of the commencement of pregnancy or necessary to “preserve” the mother’s life.

The RHA removes abortion from the state’s penal code altogether; the homicide statute still defines a “person” as “a human being who has been born and is alive.” Killing a baby once born was and is still considered a homicide

It was already allowed to terminate if under 24 weeks (even if at 24 weeks it can be born with 40-70% success rate). Now they expanded the conditions for abortion over 24 weeks.

Baalzamon said:
vivster said:

It's called punishing people for a crime. Willingly ruining a human's life is a crime. That's why we also "dictate" what humans are allowed to put in their body before getting into their car. Or how we "dictate" what small children have to put into their body to not get terrible diseases and infect others.

Allowing everything or nothing isn't the debate here. There obviously have to be rules that need to be enforced. It's called "society". That is, if laws make any sense and are meant to protect people, which the recently updated abortion laws are not.

Willingly ruining a human life...but the people saying abortion is ok are absolutely saying it isn't a human life. They are saying it's just this thing you can end. If causing them to be disabled is willingly ruining their life, then isn't killing them also doing that?

Logic. Please don't use it. By the argument of Vivster if the mother used drugs and alcohol until before the limit allowed to abort it is all fine since it wasn't a human being yet.

You are free to do whatever you want with your body even if it involves murdering your baby, but then you aren't allowed to drink???



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Immersiveunreality on 21 May 2019
0D0 said:
Abortion is murder.

It sometimes is but mostly isn't in western societies.

Depends on if it is legal or not.



Terranigma81 on 21 May 2019

Just like left and right in the Netherlands.

Crap arguments for argument sake. Because we need to say something that isnt in line with the other side.



JWeinCom on 21 May 2019
Baalzamon said:
vivster said:

It's called punishing people for a crime. Willingly ruining a human's life is a crime. That's why we also "dictate" what humans are allowed to put in their body before getting into their car. Or how we "dictate" what small children have to put into their body to not get terrible diseases and infect others.

Allowing everything or nothing isn't the debate here. There obviously have to be rules that need to be enforced. It's called "society". That is, if laws make any sense and are meant to protect people, which the recently updated abortion laws are not.

Willingly ruining a human life...but the people saying abortion is ok are absolutely saying it isn't a human life. They are saying it's just this thing you can end. If causing them to be disabled is willingly ruining their life, then isn't killing them also doing that?

It's a matter of consent.  If a woman does not consent to a fetus using her body, she should be allowed to have it removed.  However, if she consents to allowing a baby to use her body, then she consents to being responsible for it.  And she should not do anything to intentionally harm it.  

That being said, there is currently no law (in most states) against a pregnant woman drinking or doing anything else that might harm a fetus.  

Last edited by JWeinCom - on 21 May 2019

Dark_Lord_2008 on 21 May 2019

Abortion is now a convenience, it is a lifestyle choice and not taking responsibility for your actions. Only right wing governments can make laws that are the best for society. Right wing governments consist of well educated competent people that makes good laws that are for the best of society as has been the case through out history. Left wing governments consist of less educated and less experienced people that push idealistic agendas and socialist programs and try to redistribute wealth through tax upon tax.

I fully support the right wing Republicans trying to overturn abortion reforms. Abortion should not be a lifestyle choice, it should only be a last resort in special circumstances. Abortion should be paid by the individual and never subsidised by the government like they do in the leftist European nations. Making abortion a lifestyle choice/convenient creates the mentality of: I want to party, travel and never grow up and never take responsibility for my actions.