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Forums - General Discussion - Popular Twitch speedrunner banned for "leaking" the N-Word

Carl said:
o_O.Q said:

he said "sup nigger" to his white friend who responded to him in a friendly manor(in a private conversation no less)

so... he didn't discriminate against a black person... so how was this racist?

He openly used racist language on a platform that prohibits racist language. He openly used racist language in his work environment, which prohibits racist language. He openly used racist language knowing that people watching his content could be extremely offended by his words and actions.

He was dumb enough to leak it.

He's apologized for using racist language and admitted he was in the wrong.

It's racist.

What exactly is your argument here?

Wait, you said context is key.  If he was just saying it to a friend as a greeting, just like many black people do, and not in a derogatory way at a black person, that's also racist?  So, context doesn't matter?

What exactly is your argument?



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o_O.Q said:
AngryLittleAlchemist said:


people from that region definitely aren't a good example to use with regards to not being racist and the fool who wrote that article obviously isn't aware of that

Ok. It's literally a meme inspired by the fact that the gaming community has had several issues over the past year with multiple big figures in said community using racist rhetoric. The fact that you don't understand this, and though it was an actual article about Monks not saying the n-word while gaming, is astounding. 

The joke is that self-control is apparently so hard amongst gamers. 



The huge amount of people calling everything racist these days is just as stupid as actual racism.



AngryLittleAlchemist said:
o_O.Q said:


people from that region definitely aren't a good example to use with regards to not being racist and the fool who wrote that article obviously isn't aware of that

Ok. It's literally a meme inspired by the fact that the gaming community has had several issues over the past year with multiple big figures in said community using racist rhetoric. The fact that you don't understand this, and though it was an actual article about Monks not saying the n-word, is astounding. 

The joke is that self-control is apparently so hard amongst popular gamers. 

"It's literally a meme inspired by the fact that the gaming community has had several issues over the past year with multiple big figures in said community using racist rhetoric."

can you give me some examples of this racist rhetoric?

"The fact that you don't understand this, and though it was an actual article about Monks not saying the n-word"

you have to try to understand my position here, we have reached the point where discourse has degenerated to the point where people would actually use that as an argument

it was a good troll, it totally got me but much more important is what it indicates



o_O.Q said:

"He openly used racist language knowing that people watching his content could be extremely offended by his words and actions."

by opening a chat window for a second to chat with someone? here's a question why doesn't the capture show him typing the word in?

"He's apologized for using racist language and admitted he was in the wrong."

i thought context was important? didn't you just say that?

"It's racist."

he didn't discriminate against a black person... so how was this racist?

thismeintiel said:

Wait, you said context is key.  If he was just saying it to a friend as a greeting, just like many black people do, and not in a derogatory way at a black person, that's also racist?  So, context doesn't matter?

What exactly is your argument?


My argument is that white people shouldn't be calling people that word.

Let's make this simple.

Do the pair of you think it's okay for a white person to call someone that word?



                            

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Carl said:
o_O.Q said:

"He openly used racist language knowing that people watching his content could be extremely offended by his words and actions."

by opening a chat window for a second to chat with someone? here's a question why doesn't the capture show him typing the word in?

"He's apologized for using racist language and admitted he was in the wrong."

i thought context was important? didn't you just say that?

"It's racist."

he didn't discriminate against a black person... so how was this racist?

thismeintiel said:

Wait, you said context is key.  If he was just saying it to a friend as a greeting, just like many black people do, and not in a derogatory way at a black person, that's also racist?  So, context doesn't matter?

What exactly is your argument?


My argument is that white people shouldn't be calling people that word.

Let's make this simple.

Do the pair of you think it's okay for a white person to call someone that word?

"Do the pair of you think it's okay for a white person"

why delineate is at "white person"? aren't you discriminating by race then?

is it ok in your estimation for a white person to tell a black person "fuck you"?

define for me what you understand racism to mean



o_O.Q said:
AngryLittleAlchemist said:

Ok. It's literally a meme inspired by the fact that the gaming community has had several issues over the past year with multiple big figures in said community using racist rhetoric. The fact that you don't understand this, and though it was an actual article about Monks not saying the n-word, is astounding. 

The joke is that self-control is apparently so hard amongst popular gamers. 

"It's literally a meme inspired by the fact that the gaming community has had several issues over the past year with multiple big figures in said community using racist rhetoric."

can you give me some examples of this racist rhetoric?

"The fact that you don't understand this, and though it was an actual article about Monks not saying the n-word"

you have to try to understand my position here, we have reached the point where discourse has degenerated to the point where people would actually use that as an argument

it was a good troll, it totally got me but much more important is what it indicates

Ok but it's not really me being a "troll". I posted it as a joke, sure, but I didn't think people would be tricked by it - I 100% thought everyone would understand it's a meme. It doesn't sound like an article that could actually be written, honestly. It's also way too specific for this situation for it to be real, that would be too much of a coincidence. 

The meaning behind the joke also isn't "trollish", jokes can have a level of seriousness in them, jokes can convey a point by making us laugh at it's truthfulness. I think the fact that we've actually gotten to where we are today, where a large portion of the biggest figures in the gaming community can't practice self-control, is something worth talking about. I may not personally be offended by people using the n-word lightly (because I'm not offended by most words and am usually ok with people using foul words in a non-serious context), but I don't think the way to counter this is to argue that these leaders in the community have no accountability whatsoever, either. His chat logs and the community he has inspired also sound like they are legitimately bigoted, which makes me think that there's some underlying truth to why he uses such words. I also feel like every time I give people benefit of the doubt in these kind of stories, more and more information comes up and eventually they're caught as being exactly what they were accused of in the beginning - though this is separate from the gaming community specifically and moreso about the entire internet celebrity machine in general. I will never not give people chances, but I also think we need to start treating these issues seriously.



Wyrdness said:
setsunatenshi said:

i think there's a much broader discussion to be had here.

we can't ban racist people from existing, stopping a racist person from using a word, any word, in a derogatory way is not magically going to make this person less racist. if the intent behind using such words was to convey a racist or demeaning thought, then it's the intent that matters, nothing else.

i think if it truly was an accident and in a private conversation, then there's no reason for the guy to be banned. i'm more scared about thought police than people having racist thoughts. i'm pretty sure i've had them sometimes in the past and hope my better judgement helped me realize later on it was irrational to have those. in the same way i'm pretty sure plenty of people had racist thoughts about me and that's ok. it's part of human nature, one that we should continuously strive to be better about. hiding it, or pretending it doesn't exist will never solve the problem, instead will make racist people even more defensive about their "us" vs "them" mentality.

That's the thing it's not being hidden it's being punished the's a difference like it or not that's the only language some people understand, a number of people only began to fear being outed as racist when they faced retribution for their actions these people will always be defensive and have that us vs them mentality as their beliefs are built on a notion that they're superior and now have to share the same rights as others.

I also don't buy it's part of human nature, preference is not racial bias as put a bunch of young kids together they won't hate each other because they look different if anything they're more fascinated by it (an example is that story on social media where a young white child wanted his hair cut short to look more like his black friend) racism is something that is taught.

But that's my point exactly, it's not actually solving any problem, if anything it's making things worse because someone is not going to be any less racist because they were told a word was "bad". It's not the word that is bad, is the sentiment of feeling like someone is superior due to any "x" arbitrary factor like skin color. 

Education is the only way to open someone's mind to something new. Being exposed and interacting with different people is how you soften people up and have them realize these notions of "us" and "them" are just made up nonsense. The more you try and ban certain words, the more defensive you'll make such people to change their minds. And I also take objection to the notion of "being offended". That concept gets thrown around way too often and I have absolutely no connection to it. If someone says something absurd it's the easiest thing in the world to ignore that person.

Also, on your last point, i was more refering to the idea of tribalism, race is only one form of tribalism, but there are many others. Like feeling a deeper sense of empathy with people that live physically closer to you, nationalism, etc. All these feelings are quite natural and part of our evolutionary background. It takes modern sensibility to be aware of them and actively fight against those feelings.



AngryLittleAlchemist said:
o_O.Q said:

"It's literally a meme inspired by the fact that the gaming community has had several issues over the past year with multiple big figures in said community using racist rhetoric."

can you give me some examples of this racist rhetoric?

"The fact that you don't understand this, and though it was an actual article about Monks not saying the n-word"

you have to try to understand my position here, we have reached the point where discourse has degenerated to the point where people would actually use that as an argument

it was a good troll, it totally got me but much more important is what it indicates

Ok but it's not really me being a "troll". I posted it as a joke, sure, but I didn't think people would be tricked by it - I 100% thought everyone would understand it's a meme. It doesn't sound like an article that could actually be written, honestly. It's also way too specific for this situation for it to be real, that would be too much of a coincidence. 

The meaning behind the joke also isn't "trollish", jokes can have a level of seriousness in them, jokes can convey a point by making us laugh at it's truthfulness. I think the fact that we've actually gotten to where we are today, where a large portion of the biggest figures in the gaming community can't practice self-control, is something worth talking about. I may not personally be offended by people using the n-word lightly (because I'm not offended by most words and am usually ok with people using foul words in a non-serious context), but I don't think the way to counter this is to argue that these leaders in the community have no accountability whatsoever, either. His chat logs and the community he has inspired also sound like they are legitimately bigoted, which makes me think that there's some underlying truth to why he uses such words. I also feel like every time I give people benefit of the doubt in these kind of stories, more and more information comes up and eventually they're caught as being exactly what they were accused of in the beginning - though this is separate from the gaming community specifically and moreso about the entire internet celebrity machine in general. I will never not give people chances, but I also think we need to start treating these issues seriously.

"but I don't think the way to counter this is to argue that these leaders in the community have no accountability whatsoever"

that's not my argument, he went against the tos of a private company and as a result they have the right to ban him

my problem is with people describing the utterance of a word separate from intent as racist

"His chat logs and the community he has inspired also sound like they are legitimately bigoted"

how so?



the Twitch TOS is pretty clear and they enacting it so strictly because they don't want to open the door for cheap excuses by people who intentionally using the N-word. Also a stricter rule is easier to enact.
I understand it's a dumb situation for him and you but he will probably stream on youtube and at one point his ban will be lifted.