The huge amount of people calling everything racist these days is just as stupid as actual racism.
The huge amount of people calling everything racist these days is just as stupid as actual racism.
AngryLittleAlchemist said:
Ok. It's literally a meme inspired by the fact that the gaming community has had several issues over the past year with multiple big figures in said community using racist rhetoric. The fact that you don't understand this, and though it was an actual article about Monks not saying the n-word, is astounding. The joke is that self-control is apparently so hard amongst popular gamers. |
"It's literally a meme inspired by the fact that the gaming community has had several issues over the past year with multiple big figures in said community using racist rhetoric."
can you give me some examples of this racist rhetoric?
"The fact that you don't understand this, and though it was an actual article about Monks not saying the n-word"
you have to try to understand my position here, we have reached the point where discourse has degenerated to the point where people would actually use that as an argument
it was a good troll, it totally got me but much more important is what it indicates
o_O.Q said: "He openly used racist language knowing that people watching his content could be extremely offended by his words and actions." by opening a chat window for a second to chat with someone? here's a question why doesn't the capture show him typing the word in? "He's apologized for using racist language and admitted he was in the wrong." i thought context was important? didn't you just say that? "It's racist." he didn't discriminate against a black person... so how was this racist? |
thismeintiel said: Wait, you said context is key. If he was just saying it to a friend as a greeting, just like many black people do, and not in a derogatory way at a black person, that's also racist? So, context doesn't matter? What exactly is your argument? |
My argument is that white people shouldn't be calling people that word.
Let's make this simple.
Do the pair of you think it's okay for a white person to call someone that word?
Carl said:
Let's make this simple. Do the pair of you think it's okay for a white person to call someone that word? |
"Do the pair of you think it's okay for a white person"
why delineate is at "white person"? aren't you discriminating by race then?
is it ok in your estimation for a white person to tell a black person "fuck you"?
define for me what you understand racism to mean
o_O.Q said:
"It's literally a meme inspired by the fact that the gaming community has had several issues over the past year with multiple big figures in said community using racist rhetoric." can you give me some examples of this racist rhetoric? "The fact that you don't understand this, and though it was an actual article about Monks not saying the n-word" you have to try to understand my position here, we have reached the point where discourse has degenerated to the point where people would actually use that as an argument it was a good troll, it totally got me but much more important is what it indicates |
Ok but it's not really me being a "troll". I posted it as a joke, sure, but I didn't think people would be tricked by it - I 100% thought everyone would understand it's a meme. It doesn't sound like an article that could actually be written, honestly. It's also way too specific for this situation for it to be real, that would be too much of a coincidence.
The meaning behind the joke also isn't "trollish", jokes can have a level of seriousness in them, jokes can convey a point by making us laugh at it's truthfulness. I think the fact that we've actually gotten to where we are today, where a large portion of the biggest figures in the gaming community can't practice self-control, is something worth talking about. I may not personally be offended by people using the n-word lightly (because I'm not offended by most words and am usually ok with people using foul words in a non-serious context), but I don't think the way to counter this is to argue that these leaders in the community have no accountability whatsoever, either. His chat logs and the community he has inspired also sound like they are legitimately bigoted, which makes me think that there's some underlying truth to why he uses such words. I also feel like every time I give people benefit of the doubt in these kind of stories, more and more information comes up and eventually they're caught as being exactly what they were accused of in the beginning - though this is separate from the gaming community specifically and moreso about the entire internet celebrity machine in general. I will never not give people chances, but I also think we need to start treating these issues seriously.
Wyrdness said:
That's the thing it's not being hidden it's being punished the's a difference like it or not that's the only language some people understand, a number of people only began to fear being outed as racist when they faced retribution for their actions these people will always be defensive and have that us vs them mentality as their beliefs are built on a notion that they're superior and now have to share the same rights as others. I also don't buy it's part of human nature, preference is not racial bias as put a bunch of young kids together they won't hate each other because they look different if anything they're more fascinated by it (an example is that story on social media where a young white child wanted his hair cut short to look more like his black friend) racism is something that is taught. |
But that's my point exactly, it's not actually solving any problem, if anything it's making things worse because someone is not going to be any less racist because they were told a word was "bad". It's not the word that is bad, is the sentiment of feeling like someone is superior due to any "x" arbitrary factor like skin color.
Education is the only way to open someone's mind to something new. Being exposed and interacting with different people is how you soften people up and have them realize these notions of "us" and "them" are just made up nonsense. The more you try and ban certain words, the more defensive you'll make such people to change their minds. And I also take objection to the notion of "being offended". That concept gets thrown around way too often and I have absolutely no connection to it. If someone says something absurd it's the easiest thing in the world to ignore that person.
Also, on your last point, i was more refering to the idea of tribalism, race is only one form of tribalism, but there are many others. Like feeling a deeper sense of empathy with people that live physically closer to you, nationalism, etc. All these feelings are quite natural and part of our evolutionary background. It takes modern sensibility to be aware of them and actively fight against those feelings.
AngryLittleAlchemist said:
Ok but it's not really me being a "troll". I posted it as a joke, sure, but I didn't think people would be tricked by it - I 100% thought everyone would understand it's a meme. It doesn't sound like an article that could actually be written, honestly. It's also way too specific for this situation for it to be real, that would be too much of a coincidence. The meaning behind the joke also isn't "trollish", jokes can have a level of seriousness in them, jokes can convey a point by making us laugh at it's truthfulness. I think the fact that we've actually gotten to where we are today, where a large portion of the biggest figures in the gaming community can't practice self-control, is something worth talking about. I may not personally be offended by people using the n-word lightly (because I'm not offended by most words and am usually ok with people using foul words in a non-serious context), but I don't think the way to counter this is to argue that these leaders in the community have no accountability whatsoever, either. His chat logs and the community he has inspired also sound like they are legitimately bigoted, which makes me think that there's some underlying truth to why he uses such words. I also feel like every time I give people benefit of the doubt in these kind of stories, more and more information comes up and eventually they're caught as being exactly what they were accused of in the beginning - though this is separate from the gaming community specifically and moreso about the entire internet celebrity machine in general. I will never not give people chances, but I also think we need to start treating these issues seriously. |
"but I don't think the way to counter this is to argue that these leaders in the community have no accountability whatsoever"
that's not my argument, he went against the tos of a private company and as a result they have the right to ban him
my problem is with people describing the utterance of a word separate from intent as racist
"His chat logs and the community he has inspired also sound like they are legitimately bigoted"
how so?
the Twitch TOS is pretty clear and they enacting it so strictly because they don't want to open the door for cheap excuses by people who intentionally using the N-word. Also a stricter rule is easier to enact.
I understand it's a dumb situation for him and you but he will probably stream on youtube and at one point his ban will be lifted.
I love people trying to justify him say "Nigger"to his "white" friend.All non blacks use the word in a derogatory tone and never with good intentions.
setsunatenshi said: But that's my point exactly, it's not actually solving any problem, if anything it's making things worse because someone is not going to be any less racist because they were told a word was "bad". It's not the word that is bad, is the sentiment of feeling like someone is superior due to any "x" arbitrary factor like skin color. Education is the only way to open someone's mind to something new. Being exposed and interacting with different people is how you soften people up and have them realize these notions of "us" and "them" are just made up nonsense. The more you try and ban certain words, the more defensive you'll make such people to change their minds. And I also take objection to the notion of "being offended". That concept gets thrown around way too often and I have absolutely no connection to it. If someone says something absurd it's the easiest thing in the world to ignore that person. Also, on your last point, i was more refering to the idea of tribalism, race is only one form of tribalism, but there are many others. Like feeling a deeper sense of empathy with people that live physically closer to you, nationalism, etc. All these feelings are quite natural and part of our evolutionary background. It takes modern sensibility to be aware of them and actively fight against those feelings. |
Some people can't be educated mate as they simply don't want to hear it, education of someone requires them to open their mind and many of these people won't ever do that which is why you end up with the punishment route this isn't a case of informing someone still learning it's a situation involving changing someones deep rooted views which is a losing battle in many cases if you want an example of what I mean look at debates that question religion as no offence to them you can present evidence to some religious people and they'd still reject it hence why the law has to step in or rules have to be put in place to set precedents. Bare in mind I'm not knocking religious people but giving an example of how trying to open someone's mind to something other than what they believe isn't always an option.
Like it or not the punishment route has to be there another case point are the clowns you hear on Xbox Live and PSN in online games who are spewing racist and homophobic crap you can't educate this mob because they already know its wrong but do it anyway to just be offensive from the safety of anonymity.