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Forums - Sony - PS5 Confirmed Backward Compatibility

Pemalite said:
thismeintiel said:

Then gamers are still going to see the difference between them with the much shorter load times, both to begin the game and within the game itself.

There are ways to reduce load times rather than resorting to faster storage subsystems.

Either way, load times haven't really been a contentious issue between consoles anyway.

Any point can be turned into a contentious one. If you have one console loading a game for 25 seconds and the other one is almost instant, that's going to be a big plus. Of course, we'll have to see how Microsoft deals with this issue.

We could end up with two systems that are practically the same and are the same price. Of course, in that situation Sony wins.

Not sure why it made my post look like this. Posting from a phone. Guess I'll fix it when I get home.



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OTBWY said:
twintail said:

Xenogears? I feel like you should worry more about whether PS1 is even included in the PS5 BC first

That... kind of comes with it. 

Sony has for some reason been dropping the ball on just releasing their PS1 load onto their main system. I for the life of me can't understand why they don't invest in this more. Seeing how they handled the PS Classic, I think they just don't care.

When they confirmed Backwards Compatibility, I'm 100% sure it was in reference to PS4 games. Not PS3, PS2, or PS1 games. Expecting them to do that is just dumb, and completely irresponsible thinking.

Just because all of PlayStation's flagship consoles were disc based, doesn't mean they'll work just fine regardless of hardware and architecture disparity/differences.

It's not like Sony has it's finger on an On/Off switch and just refuse to flip it on in the name of pure greed. 



This makes it easier to buy on day 1 then. Great stuff.



KLXVER said:
This makes it easier to buy on day 1 then. Great stuff.

Same with me, but I was going to get all three again anyways. However moves like this help justify my purchase. 



 

Pemalite said:

That is the end goal sure, but geometry engines are still here to stay as many of the latest games (Like Metro) are still pushing them.

I realize that it's undesirable having to constantly do some rearchitecting for your engine/game to use the latest technology to get optimal performance but that's the direction the entire industry is headed in which is mesh/primitive shaders ... 

Next gen consoles are guaranteed to have primitive shaders since it's going to be enabled for the Navi architecture this year on PC ... 

Primitive shaders have a brighter future towards bringing higher geometry throughput than either tessellation or more geometry engines could've ever did ... (I don't know what Microsoft was thinking at the time when they standardized tessellation since were some serious fundamental flaws with it and we should've went straight to doing primitive shaders instead but I guess we're just going to have to live with the fact that there's wasted die space in the GPUs)



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V-r0cK said:
Will this be the end of remasters that are only 1 gen apart?? lol

If indeed this is true then honestly this is great news as my backlog is taking awhile to complete but would love to move forward as well.

Its a debate iv had for years. BC makes remastering games useless since the option to play the older games removes the need of the customer to rebuy it. All consoles should be pushing for BC. Its a shame its only BC with PS4 but if its BC with PS1/2/3 and 4 than ill buy a PS5 day one.



fatslob-:O said:
Pemalite said:

That is the end goal sure, but geometry engines are still here to stay as many of the latest games (Like Metro) are still pushing them.

I realize that it's undesirable having to constantly do some rearchitecting for your engine/game to use the latest technology to get optimal performance but that's the direction the entire industry is headed in which is mesh/primitive shaders ... 

Next gen consoles are guaranteed to have primitive shaders since it's going to be enabled for the Navi architecture this year on PC ... 

Primitive shaders have a brighter future towards bringing higher geometry throughput than either tessellation or more geometry engines could've ever did ... (I don't know what Microsoft was thinking at the time when they standardized tessellation since were some serious fundamental flaws with it and we should've went straight to doing primitive shaders instead but I guess we're just going to have to live with the fact that there's wasted die space in the GPUs)

Don't get me wrong, I am a massive supporter of Primitive Shaders, it would resolve one of the largest fundamental bottlenecks of Graphics Core Next, Geometry... And instead shift the burden to Graphics Core Next's greatest strengths, compute.

In saying that... It's not looking good since AMD canned Primitive Shaders.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/7sedpq/amd_cancels_the_driver_path_for_primitive_shaders/

So who knows if they will bring it back with Navi?

Even then Primitive Shaders won't resolve the Geometry bottlenecks of current games or even games coming out in the immediate future which will continue to rely on Tessellation or parsed high poly models.




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DonFerrari said:
Mr Puggsly said:

I believe that's more dependent on the actual game and other specs versus the storage medium.

While SSD is faster, RAM is significantly faster. So if the PS5 has like 20GB of RAM, I believe that's helping playing a bigger role in fast traveling. I mean that's four times storage a PS4 has for games so much of assets and textures could already be in the RAM.

That's also last gen content he's running, so don't expect the same for actual 9th gen games.

Of course it will depend on the game, anything bad codded can ruin any HW it run on.

RAM surely is faster and probably bandwidth will be higher, but there is a reason the PS4 and X1 games don't run from the BD disc, because they are to slow, and there is a reason why putting a SSD on they make loading much faster and also the in game loading faster.

So it is only reason that SSD architeture will enable much faster and agile, nothing of kool-aid here so far.

We can expect same difference between slow HDD versus fast SDD next gen. He didn't promise all games will load in 1s. Seems like you are reading more than what is being said.

The funny thing is games seem to often load more in the 8th gen than last gen. Even with vastly faster and more RAM, better CPUs, better GPUs and being optimized for HDDs. The load times in fighting games have suddenly become the worst they've ever been.

I don't feel running games off a HDD was done out of necessity. The PS3 was able to run games directly from a BD disc, so did the Wii U (likely BD tech). Therefore its not crazy to assume PS4 and X1 could have as well especially with their faster drives. I believe they opted for HDD primarily because that made optimization easier, faster transfer speeds and storage dropped in price significantly.

I'm not sure what they did to make Spiderman load so fast on the PS5 devkit, but I think they're misleading us on how it was done. He's giving the impression its because of the SSD on its own, but that just doesn't make sense. I believe it has more to do with the other specs of the hardware, especially RAM. I mean if basically all the textures and other assets can be stored in RAM, that's gonna eliminate much of the streaming needed from the storage. Maybe consoles using unified RAM helps simplify this process.

Last edited by Mr Puggsly - on 19 April 2019

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Pemalite said:

Don't get me wrong, I am a massive supporter of Primitive Shaders, it would resolve one of the largest fundamental bottlenecks of Graphics Core Next, Geometry... And instead shift the burden to Graphics Core Next's greatest strengths, compute.

In saying that... It's not looking good since AMD canned Primitive Shaders.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/7sedpq/amd_cancels_the_driver_path_for_primitive_shaders/

So who knows if they will bring it back with Navi?

Even then Primitive Shaders won't resolve the Geometry bottlenecks of current games or even games coming out in the immediate future which will continue to rely on Tessellation or parsed high poly models.

I'm not surprised at all that AMD canned exposing primitive shaders since the VAST majority of AAA games out there don't even do GPU compute culling so there's practically zero interest currently from developers to even implement the basics but we can't deny that there are real use cases for it ... 

I believe that bringing upon a new generation will be the panacea we need and I can guarantee you that AMD engineer have heavily implicated functional primitive shaders for Navi but why on earth would anyone need more raw geometry performance ? A Radeon VII at 2Ghz can churn out 8 billion triangles per second which can will give you well over 130 million tris per frame at 60Hz. Even when we're talking about 120Hz, that still gives you 65 million tris per frame which will still give you sub-pixel triangles at 8K resolution! 

Heck, most of the geometry performance goes into rendering the shadow maps but why would anyone need to do that when you have hardware accelerated ray tracing in the first place which are better than using shadow maps ? Geometry bottlenecks are mostly due to game developers not finding the best ways to utilize hardware like using tessellation or not doing GPU compute culling ... 



TranceformerFX said:
OTBWY said:

That... kind of comes with it. 

Sony has for some reason been dropping the ball on just releasing their PS1 load onto their main system. I for the life of me can't understand why they don't invest in this more. Seeing how they handled the PS Classic, I think they just don't care.

When they confirmed Backwards Compatibility, I'm 100% sure it was in reference to PS4 games. Not PS3, PS2, or PS1 games. Expecting them to do that is just dumb, and completely irresponsible thinking.

Just because all of PlayStation's flagship consoles were disc based, doesn't mean they'll work just fine regardless of hardware and architecture disparity/differences.

It's not like Sony has it's finger on an On/Off switch and just refuse to flip it on in the name of pure greed. 

....theres a patent filed for the exact same thing though.. lol