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Forums - Sony Discussion - PS5 Confirmed Backward Compatibility

simek on 17 April 2019
Otter said:
EricHiggin said:

I agree in general, but at the moment, I can see two reasons why they might do this, if they are doing it.

First, there's a price point they want to hit for whatever reason, and there's certain hardware that's basically necessary across both models, so the GPU TF performance must suffer for the lower end model to hit that price.

Second, if MS feels XB1X owners may feel burned by a base next gen unit that matches or exceeds theirs, by making it weaker it takes the sting away. Now that still leaves everybody else wondering WTF, but as long as the price is right and it has a worthy audience, it doesn't matter all that much.

A 4TFLOP Navi GPU in the base "1080p" machine is a massive red flag imo. The problem with a base model less or equal than 1/3rd  the power of the PS5, is that native 4k is still not guaranteed to be standard next gen, just as PS3 was tauted a 1080p machine but rarely hit above 720p and 10+ years later a system magnitudes more power (X1) is still not hitting that 1080p target on a frequent basis. X1X in particular is setting false standards in this regards, with the Pro & X1X developers have nothing else to do but bump the resolution and tinker the FPS. They're not going to invest the time to exploit the hardware on an individual asset basis. When building games from the ground up for next gen machines however, they'll take a far more dynamic approach to how they utilise the GPU and I'm sure we'll see many games sacrifice Native 4k for far more impressive VFX, textures, lighting and overall aesthetics. Things which everyone will benefit from regardless of whether they have a 4k TV or not. And most gamers still do not have 4k tvs and even when they do upscaling techniques will offer a close to 4k picture without being as much of hardware drain.

So what happens when a game is built to run at 1440p on PS5 and has to be scaled down to a GPU 1/3rd its capacity. The entry level Xbox will be more a 720p-900p console than anything and even then I could see developers botching visuals even further. In the digital foundry age, I think that will MS lots of harm. Worse case scenario is that it actually dictates how developers approach development knowing that they've got such a weak GPU to cater for. Or going by how poor recent base Xbox One games perform I think they'll just stop optimizing for the Anaconda and call it a day once they've reached a passable framerate and resolution.

Additionally it is discless system. If it is true then we will have to options:

1. It is huge success sales wise. The gaming will stuck in 1080p era for another 10 years. Only Sony  and PC exclussive games will push the bundries.

2. Third parties will produce 2 different versions of the same game which mean a waste of resources and conffusin about what version is the real one (and there difference between versions will only gaet bigger as the devlopment on new consoles will mature.

3. It fails. 

Anyway i hope the backslah about the new only digital console will kill the DUMB, SHORT SGHTED, GREEDY,   IDEA.



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Mr Puggsly on 17 April 2019
Werix357 said:

SSD as standard is a good thing, open world games have been limited by HDD for sometime now.

I call bullshit on that. We see games loading faster and streaming data better on Xbox One X even without a SSD. We even see 360 content benefit significantly from BC like faster loading and less texture pop in issues.

SSDs certainly help load times, mostly in open world games as well. But when open world games are actually running its CPUs, GPUs and RAM that matter.

With that said we're likely gonna be stuck with 1TB SSD, but I guess they determined its fine for the average consumer.



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Sixteenvolt420 on 17 April 2019

I must be one of the few that doesn't care about a console having BC. I don't have enough time to play all of the games from this gen, let alone most older games.



TranceformerFX on 17 April 2019

"Cerny claims the console will support resolutions up to 8K along with ray tracing"

4K gaming is BARELY hitting it's stride and Cerny is all about potential 8K gaming? RIGHT, CUZ WE ALL HAVE 8K TV'S AND JUST WAITING FOR 8K GAMEZ TO COME OUT...
Seriously dude, one step at a time... Alot of people still have 1080 TV's despite 4K TV's being super affordable. The consumer market is NO WHERE near the phase of comfortably pushing for 8K gaming, cuz gamers are barely adopting 4K gaming as the standard.

And only an idiot would be excited for ray tracing because HDR was supposed to be the big thing for PS4 Pro/One X but developers STILL haven't gotten implementation and tech for it to work smoothly on 4K TV's that are HDR compatible.

Everyone's super excited about this, but I'm like "whatever" about it - Mark Cerny needs to come back to reality.



JEMC on 17 April 2019

Digitimes has an article were it claims that the chips for the next Playstation won't be ready before Q3 2020

AMD 7nm chips for next-generation PlayStation to be ready in 3Q20
https://www.digitimes.com/news/a20190416PD205.html
AMD's 7nm CPU and GPU are expected to be adopted by Sony in its next-generation PlayStation and the processors are estimated to be ready in the third quarter of 2020 for the games console's expected release in the second half of 2020, according to industry sources.

It will possibly launch by November, then.



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Trumpstyle on 17 April 2019
JEMC said:

Digitimes has an article were it claims that the chips for the next Playstation won't be ready before Q3 2020

AMD 7nm chips for next-generation PlayStation to be ready in 3Q20
https://www.digitimes.com/news/a20190416PD205.html
AMD's 7nm CPU and GPU are expected to be adopted by Sony in its next-generation PlayStation and the processors are estimated to be ready in the third quarter of 2020 for the games console's expected release in the second half of 2020, according to industry sources.

It will possibly launch by November, then.

Nice find dude, digitimes is very reliable from my experience, this almost certainly means PS5 will be out fall 2020.



6x master league achiever in starcraft2

Beaten Sigrun on God of war mode

Beaten DOOM ultra-nightmare with NO endless ammo-rune, 2x super shotgun and no decoys on ps4 pro.

1-0 against Grubby in Wc3 frozen throne ladder!!

Trumpstyle on 17 April 2019
Bofferbrauer2 said:
Trumpstyle said:

We had 3 new rumors from Jason Schreier, french leak and Brad sams since I made my prediction in the same thread, here's my updated one.

Xbox two (Lockhart)
CPU: Zen2 8 cores, 16 threads, 2,4 ghz
GPU: Navi 4TF
Memory: 12GB Gddr6 Ram, 192-bit bus, 336 GB/s Bandwidth
Storage: 1TB NVMe drive (Will be disc-less)
Launch: Fall 2020 250-300$

Xbox two+ (Anaconda)
CPU: Zen2 8 cores, 16 threads, 2,8 ghz
GPU: Navi 12TF, 80CU with 1200 Mhz clock
Memory: 16GB Gddr6 Ram, 256-bit bus, 448 GB/s Bandwidth
Storage: 1TB NVMe drive
Launch: Fall 2020 400$

Playstation 5
CPU: Zen2 8 cores, 16 threads, 2,8 ghz
GPU: Navi 12TF, 80CU with 1200 Mhz clock
Memory: 16GB Gddr6 Ram, 256-bit bus, 448 GB/s Bandwidth
Storage: 1TB NVMe drive
Launch: Spring 2020 400$

Basically I don't think Microsoft is doing a premium console anymore based on information from the French leak and Brad sams, it will be a cheap 1080p Disc-less console for 250-300$ and a mainstream console for 400$. PS5 and Xbox two+ (anaconda) will probably be identical in spec.

400$ might sounds cheap but here's my build:

Soc/Apu = 100$
Memory = 70$
Nvme drive = 50$
Rest = 150$
Total = 370$

Prices are based on speculation.

Even at 7nm, a chip with 8 CPU cores, 80 Compute Units and all the caches will be gargantuan, with about 500 mm2 at the very least. 100$ per chip wouldn't even be enough to pay TSMC for the wafers, let alone make any profit for AMD. You can at least double the price for that just to make it covering the costs.

Also, just a 50$ NVME drive? If you really expect PS5 to be SSD only, then that's certainly not nearly enough. 80$ would be a better fit right now when buying in bulk.

As you can see, 400$ for your build are impossible, put at least another 100$ on top of it.

Finally, An Xbox 2 model being considerably less powerful than the One X doesn't make sense at all to me. I think it would at least match the One X in GPU performance, with the better CPU and possibly more RAM making the difference between the two.

There exists differents version of 7nm, a 7nm and a 7nm HPC (high performing computing), the non HPC 7nm has lower performance but should still beat 16/14nm. Amd is using the 7nm HPC for Vega 7 and it has a density of about 40 MTr/mm2 and Apple a12x that uses the normal 7nm has 80 MTr/mm2. My guess is Sony and microsoft will use the non 7nm HPC as they don't need high clock-speed as desktop computers do. So a 8-core zen2 + 80CU navi will be about 300mm2.

About the NVMe drive, 1TB costs slightly above $100 on newegg right now (intel 660p) but I expect 96-layer Nand will drive prices down 30% this year and 128-layer down another 30% next year (96-layer already in production and 128-layer ssd will hit production this summer). I'm sure that Sony and Microsoft has already hit a contract for 1TB NVMe drive for about $50 with 128-layer Nand flash.

The cheap Xbox (4TF Navi) will not play enhanced Xbox one X titles, it will play Xbox one S titles with improved FPS and maybe higher resolution for those titles under 1080p. I also thought 4TF didn't make much sense when I first saw it, but it actually makes perfect sense, game developers will target the cheap xbox first with 1080p and just simply scale up the resolution on PS5 and the more expensive Xbox. And if they want really high graphic fidelity they can target 1080p Checkerboard rendering (CB) for the cheap xbox and up the resolution to 4k CB for the other consoles.

Last edited by Trumpstyle - on 17 April 2019

6x master league achiever in starcraft2

Beaten Sigrun on God of war mode

Beaten DOOM ultra-nightmare with NO endless ammo-rune, 2x super shotgun and no decoys on ps4 pro.

1-0 against Grubby in Wc3 frozen throne ladder!!

Dante9 on 17 April 2019
COKTOE said:
taus90 said:

bigger battery and Haptic feed back is a must

You know, I've had 3 active DS4's ( about to open a 4th as one had developed severe drift ), and although I have noticed some variance, I've never been anything less than totally satisfied with how long the charge lasts. I do have rumble turned off, which certainly helps, getting 10-12 hours out of my favorite red DS4. Agreed though. A bigger battery would be welcome.

Turning rumble off and turning the controller light dimmer probably help somewhat, but I tend to have gaming sessions so long that even those are not enough. My solution? An extra controller. It's so convenient, I always have a fully charged controller at the ready when the other one dies out. If you don't wanna pony up for another controller(which may be used in local co-op as well), just get a long ass charging cable so you can charge while playing.

Haptic feedback? Nah, I'm good.



Dante9 on 17 April 2019
Sixteenvolt420 said:
I must be one of the few that doesn't care about a console having BC. I don't have enough time to play all of the games from this gen, let alone most older games.

I'm with you there. I have already played all the games I have wanted on the previous systems, no need to go back to those anymore. How depressing would it be to see PS1 and PS2 graphics and other limitations at this point anyways, when there's so many new and beautiful things coming out all the time?

BC is actually kind of a bad thing to me, because I used to be able to finish going through the current gen in peace and by the time I would be finished, the next gen console would already be reduced in price and offering more games, everything patched and all. Now, I might not have the willpower to not upgrade as soon as possible..



taus90 on 17 April 2019
BraLoD said:
Pemalite said:

For sound? Not so much. We have actually been down this Audio path once before... Aka. Aureal A3D, before Creative bought them up and shuttered them.

Also. Nothing has been confirmed, these are rumors, grain of salt and all of that.

Nope, this is official.

All the info was gotten directly from Mark Cerny inside Sony headquarters with a devkit being actually used (for the SSD comparision).

Sony has retweeted this interview themselves.

All he mentioned on that quote has been confirmed.

I feel he think it some insider who leaked some PS5 info :D 

Pemalite: Also Just because something was introduced few years but didnt take off doesnt, mean cant be brought back on a better Hardware? (VR), even Sony has been Using 3D audio with different techniques and Ray tracing will be the new thing Not to forget Sony did recently acquire Audiokinetic

P.S. I wont be surprised if HZD2 Ai will use ray tracing collision detection.