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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Monolith Soft currently recruiting staff for an entry in The Legend of Zelda series

HoangNhatAnh on 04 April 2019
Wyrdness said:
HoangNhatAnh said:

"If the map design was the main attraction and all XCX would have received a similar critical reception as BOTW it didn't as the's a lot more to the latter's appeal than that." Except one is a very niche series, there are even some Nintendo fans who don't know about them. The other is the second biggest Nintendo series ever in history. Can't use that as a reason, you know, try better reason. Also, the BOTW core team from EPD3 is ~300 people, not thousands of people. The biggest support team: Monolith Soft with their open world design technique. Don't bring EPD3 about creating open world since their biggest 3D game that have big world before BOTW is Twilight Princess and that world isn't even look amazing or comparable to Xenoblade 1 on Wii, which have the same size as Skyrim. It could took over 70 hours for the main story alone (not counting over 200 side quests of it). You'd think EPD3 would make an open world that is near as big as Xenoblade X by themself alone for the 1st time ever? That is a bit too funny. Anyway, Xenoblade X is 400km^2, the contents of it is ~300 hours while BOTW is 360km^2 and the contents is between 100 and 200 hours

What you typed here is not very coherent and also comes across as if you're not reading what the debate is for a start EPD's core offices are over 2000 people who are rotated across teams so any of them can be a future member of the Zelda team hence why the ALBW's team were majority young developers so the 60% figure people are citing for Monolith isn't anything spectacular you and jumpin are fixated on purely the 300 when the point was highlighting the size of Monolith compared to all of EPD. Secondly TP is a GC game by nature so comparing that to Xenoblade which was a late Wii game is flawed, during the GC era Monolith weren't doing anything like TP or open world in general monolith only started with open worlds with XBC, TP ironically was one of the biggest game worlds of that gen back then.

The double irony is you write off EPD creating an open world for the first time yet Monolith did the same only in recent years, as someone pointed out just now EPD had a map in mind for the game and outsourced it's creation to Monolith. Nothing wrong with that or negative as they did their part great.

"EPD's core offices are over 2000 people" Yeah, except: https://gonintendo.com/stories/272617-aonuma-on-zelda-botw-dev-team-size-dev-time-shrine-info-sky

TP came out on Wii too, you ignore it on purpose i see. "comparing that to Xenoblade which was a late Wii game is flawed" So should i compare XC1 world to Skyward Sword world then? Change nothing. 

"EPD creating an open world for the first time yet Monolith did the same only in recent years" Big wrong, TP have a big 3d world and that it, since when i said it is open world? By that logic, Shadow of Colosus on ps2 also had a big 3d world so it must be open world/s. Not to mention TP world is nothing compared to XC1 world, like comparing a tiny stone to a big mountain. The first XC is 2010, what 3D open world game which came from EPD3 at that time? Nothing



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Wyrdness on 04 April 2019
HoangNhatAnh said:

"EPD's core offices are over 2000 people" Yeah, except: https://gonintendo.com/stories/272617-aonuma-on-zelda-botw-dev-team-size-dev-time-shrine-info-sky

TP came out on Wii too, you ignore it on purpose i see. "comparing that to Xenoblade which was a late Wii game is flawed" So should i compare XC1 world to Skyward Sword world then? Change nothing. 

"EPD creating an open world for the first time yet Monolith did the same only in recent years" Big wrong, TP have a big 3d world and that it, since when i said it is open world? By that logic, Shadow of Colosus on ps2 also had a big 3d world so it must be open world/s. Not to mention TP world is nothing compared to XC1 world, like comparing a tiny stone to a big mountain. The first XC is 2010, what 3D open world game which came from EPD3 at that time? Nothing

You aren't reading what is being said or maybe you don't understand the comparison is between Monolith and the whole of EPD.

Again you aren't reading TP by nature is a GC game so in other words it's development was for the GC era it was delayed a year to be ported to the Wii and even then that doesn't disprove my point as one is developed for one gen and the other comes a gen later, TP even uses WW's engine.

Wtf are you even on about in your last part SOTC is an open world game for a start open world just means the map execution your argument here is so full of fallacies it even can be used against you for example you're asking what open worlds EPD did in 2010 well what open worlds did Monolith do when TP was released, mate that isn't even an argument that makes sense. XBC was their first foray into it under your logic Monolith shouldn't even be able to do open world because 2010 was their first attempt.



Jumpin on 04 April 2019
Wyrdness said:
Jumpin said:

I ask you again:

Monolithsoft numbers from 5-12 years ago are irrelevant. What you were asked to provide was your source you double checked showing the 5000 people who work at EPD?

Why is this number relevant to Breath of the Wild's development?

The 2271 number I sourced has nothing to do with Breath of the Wild's dev team, it is the total number of employees Nintendo lists as working at Nintendo Co LTD. I question your 5000 number considering 5000 is more than double ALL of Nintendo Co LTD's employees. Nintendo Co LTD's size compared to Monolithsoft has no relevance. The proportion of the Breath of the Wild dev team is what is relevant, and 16%, including half of the design staff, is not the "drop in the ocean" you claim it is.

Monolithsoft's assistance on Skyward Sword was in art asset creation. Their involvement on Breath of the Wild was significantly larger (as it includes the design and creation of the map). Their unique touch and influence is clear and profound. Breath of the Wild's overworld design philosophy is significantly closer to Xenoblade Chronicles X than any other game ever published by Nintendo, and perhaps closest to XCX than any other game ever created by anyone. You brought up "use and application of the map" which is also most like XCX compared to any other Nintendo game; and that is due to Monolithsoft's influence and work on Breath of the Wild.

I also never said Monolithsoft was "the foundation holding it together" whatever that means, nor did I bring up anything about Naughty Dog or Retro Studios. You're way too fixated on saying negative things about Monolithsoft rather than actually sticking to the topic.

1. It's relevant because Nintendo rotate staff across teams so everyone who works in the core offices are potentially future Zelda team members if Monolith aren't involved in the series in future another group of people would simply be used instead.

2. Yeah the map uses their design and approach similar to XCX and?

3. If you removed all the Zelda elements from the map they created for BOTW and applied it to any other good open world map BOTW would still turn out great that's what applications means

4. no doubt Aonuma and his side already had a map design in place for Monolith to create assets for.

5. If the map design was the main attraction and all XCX would have received a similar critical reception as BOTW it didn't as the's a lot more to the latter's appeal than that.

6. The topic is on Monolith recruiting for a Zelda project and some people are debating on Monolith possibly making a full on project themselves when really they contributed to one key area, it's not being negative as nothing negative has been said about them so get that notion out of here it's pointing out the actual reality of things and is part of the topic even if you don't like it, Retro was used as an example of people getting carried away on a studio in thinking they're having more influence than they actually do.

1. It's not relevant because the topic was Breath of the Wild's development.

2. And that is Monolithsoft's influence and work. Is this difficult to understand?

3. False. The Breath of the Wild map has unique vertical level design where players can travel to any place on the map that they can see. These are elements  Monolithsoft has developed over multiple games, and excels at.

4. False. Why would you think 12 XCX (mainly) map designers from Monolithsoft would be creating assets while the Executive producer designed the entire map?

5. Why would XCX need the same rating as Breath of the Wild in order for the Zelda map to be the main attraction? Xenoblade Chronicles X didn't have the same level of polish, the license, or anywhere near the budget of Breath of the Wild. Breath of the Wild has performed significantly better than other Zelda games, and the main difference is that it's a Xenoblade Chronicles X style open world game with a Xenoblade Chronicles X style open world map.

6. I never said that. And if you think I've ever been a fan of Retro, I can get some longtime references on this site to show you that clearly I am not, and never have been. =)

Also, all of Nintendo Co LTD has 2271 employees, it is not likely EPD has anywhere near that number, so I am not sure where you are getting this 2000-5000 number from. Again, I ask that you provide a source.

And P.S. if it sounds like this is getting a little personal, then I apologize (I tend to like to argue, and particularly on these topics since I have dealt with internal staff organization for about 15 years now). I have no issues with you, only the arguments in this post.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Wyrdness on 04 April 2019
Jumpin said:

...

1- The Topic is on Monolith's involvement with the Zelda series hence why even SS got brought up.

2- I already pointed that out to begin with.

3- True they make more use of verticality although BOTW has less of that than Xenoblade.

4- No I stand by this one Aonuma and co created a 2d version of BOTW to get an idea of what they want in practice, they would have had a concept of what the map would be and where key locations would be before an assets are created.

5- If the map was the main attraction than XCX would surely be within the same region of reception as BOTW as it shares the same map design approach, fact is the map was one of numerous elements from sandbox mechanics, full freedom of how you want to play, A.I interactions, physics manipulation etc... 

6- Fair enough.

5000 plus is the total employee count with NCL having over 2000 people these numbers from your source, EPD is the combined count of all EAD departments, SPD teams etc... after the restructuring in 2015 and make up the lion's share of the numbers. When you factor in EAD and SPD includes almost all the first party developers, programmers, software developer it's clear that's where most of the numbers are from. For reference back in 2004:

https://www.nsidr.com/archive/profile-nintendo-ead/4

EAD had 1302 people total and they've not only grown since then due to the demands of development but have merged with SPD another large department.

As I mention Monolith did great with their part but the was still a lot to do in making a functioning game with the appeal of BOTW it's not taking anything away from them as they've found a key role with in the company with their designs but it trivializes many other key aspects in BOTW suggesting it's down mainly to map which I find to be untrue.

Last edited by Wyrdness - on 04 April 2019

HoangNhatAnh on 04 April 2019
Wyrdness said:
HoangNhatAnh said:

"EPD's core offices are over 2000 people" Yeah, except: https://gonintendo.com/stories/272617-aonuma-on-zelda-botw-dev-team-size-dev-time-shrine-info-sky

TP came out on Wii too, you ignore it on purpose i see. "comparing that to Xenoblade which was a late Wii game is flawed" So should i compare XC1 world to Skyward Sword world then? Change nothing. 

"EPD creating an open world for the first time yet Monolith did the same only in recent years" Big wrong, TP have a big 3d world and that it, since when i said it is open world? By that logic, Shadow of Colosus on ps2 also had a big 3d world so it must be open world/s. Not to mention TP world is nothing compared to XC1 world, like comparing a tiny stone to a big mountain. The first XC is 2010, what 3D open world game which came from EPD3 at that time? Nothing

You aren't reading what is being said or maybe you don't understand the comparison is between Monolith and the whole of EPD.

Again you aren't reading TP by nature is a GC game so in other words it's development was for the GC era it was delayed a year to be ported to the Wii and even then that doesn't disprove my point as one is developed for one gen and the other comes a gen later, TP even uses WW's engine.

Wtf are you even on about in your last part SOTC is an open world game for a start open world just means the map execution your argument here is so full of fallacies it even can be used against you for example you're asking what open worlds EPD did in 2010 well what open worlds did Monolith do when TP was released, mate that isn't even an argument that makes sense. XBC was their first foray into it under your logic Monolith shouldn't even be able to do open world because 2010 was their first attempt.

Except no one call TP or SC open world. You are the first one ever lol. The only open world Zelda game is Zelda 1 (it is 2D only so not count) and BOTW. Just because it use big 3D world mean it is open world? Then Monster Hunter on ps2 is open world lol. And again, Wii is 2 times stronger than GC at best, so it change nothing because all TP have is a super empty barren small world, and it still isn't open world, yeah, maybe open for you only, lol. 

Last edited by HoangNhatAnh - on 04 April 2019