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Machiavellian on 07 December 2022
sc94597 said:
Machiavellian said:

I disagree, explaining what you will do next gives your oponent a chance to prepare for what you will do next.  When you just do what you are going to do next, there is no preparations.  You drop it like it hot and they have to respond to you instead of plan for what you will do next.  I would rather keep my adversary having to respond to my actions then be able to prepare for my actions.

I do not believe your example is correct because everything that has happen after Roe fell were affects of the change.  Meaning that when it was leaked the SC was going to overturn Roe, did anything or any threat actually change that decision.  No amount of push back, rallies or demonstration made the justice change their vote.  Instead, everything that happen was done after the fact.  So in that instance, I still say, why waste time making threats that does not change anything and instead just do it.  The SC stuck down Roe, so what did that do, made Dems understand other rights can be on the table to take action. Would the Justice still not struck down Roe because of the marriage act if it was a threat, I believe that still vote the same way.

My point of view is that only weak people make threats.  Instead I am never going to tip someone off on what I am going to do, I am just going to do it.

That is only if they have an option to prepare and respond to it. This decision depends on implementation happening as soon as possible and for public will to push it through. You need to be clear with the public on what you intend to do to keep the momentum going. That is far more valuable, in this situation, than the negatives of your opponent being able to prepare. They're going to come up with a challenge regardless. Just look at how fast challenges came up after the initial announcement was made. 

Right, my point is that Biden should change his policy so that the challenge doesn't even go to the SC. If the policy changes, then the challenge is moot and doesn't go to the court. Then he can focus on the other challenges. By letting it go to the SC he is risking a much wider scoped decision to limit what he can do. 

"Only weak people make threats." Pretty much every labor right that exists in the United States and the developed world is a byproduct of reactions to threats. The welfare state, as we know, it is an answer to socialist movements -- threats to capitalism, as an example. 

Here is a link for you to read.  Just because you believe there are no other plans because the one currently in court has the higher profile, there are other plans his administration has instituted.

https://www.grid.news/story/politics/2022/12/05/biden-has-another-student-loan-forgiveness-plan/

I am finding it hard to understand exactly how the public is going to push any alternative plan Biden has through.  Exactly what momentum do you see with student loan forgiveness that I am missing.  You have just about every GOP bringing up multiple lawsuits against his plans.  There are still 5 more lawsuits against the current one.  All executive orders can be challenged in court, so I am not sure exactly what the public is going to do when you have a whole segment against it. 

I also disagree that this should not go to the SC because no matter what, it was going to go to the SC.  Instead, it's best to know why they struck something down and then develop your plan around that then throwing out a bunch of alternatives which all will be challenged. If they rule on a limited condition then it's a simple change, if they rule in your favor, then you can institute more radical plans. If they totally strike this down then you do not waste a lot of time and effort with ineffective alternatives.  Information is more key here then just throwing stuff at the wall. 

A threat does not mean anything unless you are willing to do it.  If you are willing to do it then why did you not lead with it.  In negotiation, you always start high and negotiate towards a middle, not start low and try to go high.  This is why your threat scenario just do not hold water.  If I had a more radical plan, I would lead with that and force you to respond to it.  Why lead with a weak plan then try to show strength, it doesn't make sense.  What you are suggesting are just alternatives and they are not threats because each one can be acted on.



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Machiavellian on 08 December 2022

So is anyone paying attention to this SC case going on. I would love to know how this even made it to the SC.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/us-supreme-court-debates-web-designers-anti-gay-marriage-stance/ar-AA14Vmjr



Bofferbrauer2 on 09 December 2022

Sinema left the Democratic Party to become an Independent: https://www.politico.com/news/2022/12/09/sinema-arizona-senate-independent-00073216

She doesn't say if she'll caucuses with the Democrats or not



The Nintendo eShop rating Thread: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=237454 List as Google Doc:  https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1aW2hXQT1TheElVS7z-F3pP-7nbqdrDqWNTxl6JoJWBY/edit?usp=sharing

The Steam/GOG key gifting thread: https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread/242024/the-steamgog-key-gifting-thread/1/ 

Free Pc Games thread: https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread/248138/free-pc-games/1/

SanAndreasX on 09 December 2022
Bofferbrauer2 said:

Sinema left the Democratic Party to become an Independent: https://www.politico.com/news/2022/12/09/sinema-arizona-senate-independent-00073216

She doesn't say if she'll caucuses with the Democrats or not

She claims this won't change her previous voting patterns or values. 



Bofferbrauer2 on 09 December 2022
SanAndreasX said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:

Sinema left the Democratic Party to become an Independent: https://www.politico.com/news/2022/12/09/sinema-arizona-senate-independent-00073216

She doesn't say if she'll caucuses with the Democrats or not

She claims this won't change her previous voting patterns or values. 

Being a DINO, that probably means she'll be voting down more progressive legislation and support moderate republican ones.



The Nintendo eShop rating Thread: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=237454 List as Google Doc:  https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1aW2hXQT1TheElVS7z-F3pP-7nbqdrDqWNTxl6JoJWBY/edit?usp=sharing

The Steam/GOG key gifting thread: https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread/242024/the-steamgog-key-gifting-thread/1/ 

Free Pc Games thread: https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread/248138/free-pc-games/1/

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the-pi-guy on 09 December 2022

At least it comes after Dems added a seat in the senate. 

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/arizona/2022/12/09/sen-kyrsten-sinema-leaves-democratic-party-to-become-an-independent/69710762007/

>She plans to caucus with Democrats, giving the party an edge on committee seats, something that could prove especially important to moving quickly on judicial nominations. But Sinema will remain uninvolved in party leadership votes and advancing the party's broader efforts.

Supposedly.

Last edited by the-pi-guy - on 09 December 2022

Machiavellian on 09 December 2022
the-pi-guy said:

At least it comes after Dems added a seat in the senate. 

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/arizona/2022/12/09/sen-kyrsten-sinema-leaves-democratic-party-to-become-an-independent/69710762007/

>She plans to caucus with Democrats, giving the party an edge on committee seats, something that could prove especially important to moving quickly on judicial nominations. But Sinema will remain uninvolved in party leadership votes and advancing the party's broader efforts.

Supposedly.

Yeah, once she found out that her vote was diminished, she decides to leave the Dem party.  She want all the blessings but none of the responsibilities.  Pretty much how she has worked her seat from the beginning.



Bofferbrauer2 on 09 December 2022
Machiavellian said:
the-pi-guy said:

At least it comes after Dems added a seat in the senate. 

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/arizona/2022/12/09/sen-kyrsten-sinema-leaves-democratic-party-to-become-an-independent/69710762007/

>She plans to caucus with Democrats, giving the party an edge on committee seats, something that could prove especially important to moving quickly on judicial nominations. But Sinema will remain uninvolved in party leadership votes and advancing the party's broader efforts.

Supposedly.

Yeah, once she found out that her vote was diminished, she decides to leave the Dem party.  She want all the blessings but none of the responsibilities.  Pretty much how she has worked her seat from the beginning.

When's her senate seat up for election?



The Nintendo eShop rating Thread: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=237454 List as Google Doc:  https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1aW2hXQT1TheElVS7z-F3pP-7nbqdrDqWNTxl6JoJWBY/edit?usp=sharing

The Steam/GOG key gifting thread: https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread/242024/the-steamgog-key-gifting-thread/1/ 

Free Pc Games thread: https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread/248138/free-pc-games/1/

sundin13 on 09 December 2022
Bofferbrauer2 said:
Machiavellian said:

Yeah, once she found out that her vote was diminished, she decides to leave the Dem party.  She want all the blessings but none of the responsibilities.  Pretty much how she has worked her seat from the beginning.

When's her senate seat up for election?

2024.

Seems to me like this is just a play to scare Dems out of the race with Mutually Assured Destruction. She knows she can't win a Dem primary, so she runs as an Independent and if the Dems put forward anyone, they'll split the votes giving Republicans the easy win (in theory). 



SanAndreasX on 10 December 2022
Bofferbrauer2 said:
Machiavellian said:

Yeah, once she found out that her vote was diminished, she decides to leave the Dem party.  She want all the blessings but none of the responsibilities.  Pretty much how she has worked her seat from the beginning.

When's her senate seat up for election?

2024.

Congressman Ruben Gallego (D, AZ-7, will be AZ-3 when the new districts take effect in January) has announced that he plans to challenge her in 2024. He's a solid guy. He will be my representative until January. Then I get gerrymandered into the district of the thoroughly useless and reality-challenged David Schweikert. That was one of the things about the midterms that pissed me off. They gerrymandered the state so thoroughly that Paul freaking Gosar, the J6-involved guy whose own family took out billboards in Arizona begging people to vote against him, ran uncontested.