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sundin13 on 17 February 2021
Rab said:
sundin13 said:

I have no idea what that first sentence is supposed to mean, or how any of this post is meant to respond to my argument.

Your gaslighting, although expected :/ 

You haven't been paying attention to what the Dems have used to justify their weak positions when ever asked why they haven't done more on M4A or why Gun Control isnt being put in place even though these issues and many many others have troubled people for decades, it nearly is always the "Compromise" excuse of the "moderate" Dems that is heard in some form or another, and it never works 

The Progressives have made great progress in getting many of these ideas like a minimum wage, Green New Deal, M4A, Prison reform, increasing Taxes on the Rich to be far more considered and mainstream conversation than almost any time in the past, with even Biden feeling like he has to do something for Progressive ideas, the pressure is working, when AOC kicked out that incumbent "Moderate" Dem, it sent shockwaves through the party and some soul searching 

You guys never address the issue that the compromise model of "Moderate" Dems have achieved virtually nothing in decades for working people regardless of all the nice Est. Dem promises

If the Est. Dems continue with these empty strategies and promises, in two years they will loose the Senate, an in 4 loose the election, people have had enough

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/02/07/6-facts-about-economic-inequality-in-the-u-s/

I don't think you know what the word "gaslighting" means. Telling you I don't understand what you are trying to say is not gaslighting.

With this clarification, you have not changed my mind about my original point. Boiling decades of politics down to "Compromise made everything bad" is a both a vast oversimplification of the causes and the effects. I will also add, that Democrats haven't had total power continually over the last few decades so I am not sure why there would be any expectation of them getting things done unilaterally. 



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Rab on 17 February 2021
sundin13 said:
Rab said:

Your gaslighting, although expected :/ 

You haven't been paying attention to what the Dems have used to justify their weak positions when ever asked why they haven't done more on M4A or why Gun Control isnt being put in place even though these issues and many many others have troubled people for decades, it nearly is always the "Compromise" excuse of the "moderate" Dems that is heard in some form or another, and it never works 

The Progressives have made great progress in getting many of these ideas like a minimum wage, Green New Deal, M4A, Prison reform, increasing Taxes on the Rich to be far more considered and mainstream conversation than almost any time in the past, with even Biden feeling like he has to do something for Progressive ideas, the pressure is working, when AOC kicked out that incumbent "Moderate" Dem, it sent shockwaves through the party and some soul searching 

You guys never address the issue that the compromise model of "Moderate" Dems have achieved virtually nothing in decades for working people regardless of all the nice Est. Dem promises

If the Est. Dems continue with these empty strategies and promises, in two years they will loose the Senate, an in 4 loose the election, people have had enough

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/02/07/6-facts-about-economic-inequality-in-the-u-s/

I don't think you know what the word "gaslighting" means. Telling you I don't understand what you are trying to say is not gaslighting.

With this clarification, you have not changed my mind about my original point. Boiling decades of politics down to "Compromise made everything bad" is a both a vast oversimplification of the causes and the effects. I will also add, that Democrats haven't had total power continually over the last few decades so I am not sure why there would be any expectation of them getting things done unilaterally. 

Well that's' what a gaslighter would say.. I know what gaslighting means, and if I feel I've been gaslighted then I will say so

I don't care if you do change your mind.. the Est. "Moderate" Dems have done next to nothing over decades for the working poor

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/02/07/6-facts-about-economic-inequality-in-the-u-s/ 



Machiavellian on 18 February 2021
Rab said:
Machiavellian said:

AOC and the gang of four, actually that is a pretty good example.  I await to see how they change the current climate within Washington.  T

As to why the working poor have suffered its because they do not vote.  That is pretty obvious.  If they voted in large enough numbers then the Senate and House would be a very different place.  Votes count, which we continue to state which you continue to ignore.  Votes get things done, might not be fast enough for you but that is the reality. 

You keep talking about the same failed strategy but you still avoid the question, how do you get something done now.  So what is your plan to get something done now.  You still have Joe there in the way, so your plan is that you can get rid of Joe by next election cycle and put a progressive in his seat.  Its a waste of time arguing this point.  Lets see it happen.  

Yes AOC and others like her (the next Gen) are great examples of what can be done, their votes in government will make a difference 

I never once talked about getting results "now", your arguing with imagined shadows there I'm afraid

The working poor shouldn't have to wait forever or even a few decades because of the compromise strategy you so fondly endorse, maybe not "now" but much sooner than your Est. status quo could ever achieved based off it's track record so far, which is abysmal  

How has that compromise strategy worked in helping the poor or on gun control in a meaningful way, people would love to know, you have never addressed that point and I have asked repeatedly, I know you don't have an answer but I just want you to reflect on it ;)   

Ok, so you do not care about doing something now, instead you are still going for the long ball.  You believe because of some moderate success with AOC, that will translate into huge success on the national level. 

The funny thing is then you go on about the poor should not have to wait forever but for some reason you believe Bernie plan will suddenly get you 60 votes in the Senate within what time frame.  You have absolutely no clue how long or even successful this plan will be but you putting all your eggs in this one basket while people need something done today.

So basically you have no plan for today.  Because right now without compromise and finding a middle ground, you get nothing.  You cannot sway any Republicans and you have a few Dems who are looking at a different course and you even have a President who isn't whole hog on total Progressive policies.  So for people in need today, your plan is wait and see while you then talk about you shouldn't have to wait forever for my brilliant plan to work.



Rab on 18 February 2021
Machiavellian said:
Rab said:

Yes AOC and others like her (the next Gen) are great examples of what can be done, their votes in government will make a difference 

I never once talked about getting results "now", your arguing with imagined shadows there I'm afraid

The working poor shouldn't have to wait forever or even a few decades because of the compromise strategy you so fondly endorse, maybe not "now" but much sooner than your Est. status quo could ever achieved based off it's track record so far, which is abysmal  

How has that compromise strategy worked in helping the poor or on gun control in a meaningful way, people would love to know, you have never addressed that point and I have asked repeatedly, I know you don't have an answer but I just want you to reflect on it ;)   

Ok, so you do not care about doing something now, instead you are still going for the long ball.  You believe because of some moderate success with AOC, that will translate into huge success on the national level. 

The funny thing is then you go on about the poor should not have to wait forever but for some reason you believe Bernie plan will suddenly get you 60 votes in the Senate within what time frame.  You have absolutely no clue how long or even successful this plan will be but you putting all your eggs in this one basket while people need something done today.

So basically you have no plan for today.  Because right now without compromise and finding a middle ground, you get nothing.  You cannot sway any Republicans and you have a few Dems who are looking at a different course and you even have a President who isn't whole hog on total Progressive policies.  So for people in need today, your plan is wait and see while you then talk about you shouldn't have to wait forever for my brilliant plan to work.

Problem is with your plan it wont work, never has, and its been decades, have been trying to make this point forever, but is conveniently ignored every post

I have never said "now", and because of that you have some how twisted it into some long term distant goal that probably wont happen, trying to make it appear that the current system of compromises that have been a disappointment and fail, are sooo much better, way to go :) 

You guys are so disingenuous in your reply's its comical, at least I can see you guys for what you are, you have done this before ;) 

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/02/07/6-facts-about-economic-inequality-in-the-u-s/ 

https://saylordotorg.github.io/text_social-problems-continuity-and-change/s16-04-problems-of-health-care-in-the.html

 

Last edited by Rab - on 18 February 2021

OTBWY on 18 February 2021



This video is about what kind of person Rush Limbaugh was. Contains some interesting facts about his life, like how anti-drugs he was while being addicted himself. Since he's dead he can be ignored forever but it's still interesting to read up on what a piece of shit this man was.



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AsGryffynn on 18 February 2021
Hiku said:

Pure evil.
He'd say anything for a dollar.

So Piers Morgan of the New World? 



The_Yoda on 18 February 2021

A lot of Rush is evil talk here. He was a windbag but evil ... not so sure about that https://www.forbes.com/2008/11/24/oprah-philanthropy-celebrity-biz-media-cz_dkr_1124charitycelebs.html?sh=6c2f27e15dbf



sundin13 on 18 February 2021
The_Yoda said:

A lot of Rush is evil talk here. He was a windbag but evil ... not so sure about that https://www.forbes.com/2008/11/24/oprah-philanthropy-celebrity-biz-media-cz_dkr_1124charitycelebs.html?sh=6c2f27e15dbf

Yeah, like sure, he had a bit on his show where he would read out the names of gay people who died or were dying of AIDS while playing humorous fanfare and proclaiming "Gays deserved their fate", but he gave to charity so he is basically Jesus pt 2



The_Yoda on 18 February 2021
sundin13 said:
The_Yoda said:

A lot of Rush is evil talk here. He was a windbag but evil ... not so sure about that https://www.forbes.com/2008/11/24/oprah-philanthropy-celebrity-biz-media-cz_dkr_1124charitycelebs.html?sh=6c2f27e15dbf

Yeah, like sure, he had a bit on his show where he would read out the names of gay people who died or were dying of AIDS while playing humorous fanfare and proclaiming "Gays deserved their fate", but he gave to charity so he is basically Jesus pt 2

Awesome response. I so compared him to a messiah.  You and that big tolerant brain got me good.  



sundin13 on 18 February 2021
The_Yoda said:
sundin13 said:

Yeah, like sure, he had a bit on his show where he would read out the names of gay people who died or were dying of AIDS while playing humorous fanfare and proclaiming "Gays deserved their fate", but he gave to charity so he is basically Jesus pt 2

Awesome response. I so compared him to a messiah.  You and that big tolerant brain got me good.  

Hyperbole: It's whats for dinner.